Total beginner, so any help is great !!!

[squoppy]

We had a look through a Bessier messier r102 at a friends house the other night and we're hooked and would like to think about getting a telescope for ourselves. The telescope we tried was 6 years old , but the moon and planets were stunning.

We don't want anything too complicated just something to view moon, planets etc, however as we have a direct view to the observatory on the top the Pic du Midi, Pyrenees , I was wondering if one can get a celestial / terrestrial telescope in one ? As the views of the mountains are so beautiful from here, And if so which one would people advise us to look at ? I like the idea of remote controls that may or may not make life easier for us to use it.

as you can tell we're total amateurs so any thoughts / help / pushing us in the right direction would b

e so appreciated.

thank you

[Russe]

How much would you like to spend?

Erecting prisms turn telescopes into terrestrial spotting scopes. Binoculars can be put on tripods.

Either, buy a pair of binos.

Or, Buy a relatively cheap skywatcher or Celestron scope on a motorised EQ mount. You can get them used and sell them again, should you not like it.

Scopes with long focal length give u greater magnification. Scopes with greater aperture give you brighter targets.

There is no "one true telescope".

There is a wide variety of scopes in the market and before you start handing out cash, I'd read a bit first (backyard astronomer). It's too much info to put into a forum post.

Welcome to the dark side...

[Russe]

'>http://www.backyardastronomy.com/Backyard_Astronomy/Backyard_Astronomers_Guide.html

[Schorhr]

Russe said many importaint things to consider, but if you want to see galaxies and nebulas, you should consider getting a 8" or 10' telescope if you can afford and transport it in a car.

Nothing is more importaint then aperture if you are also interested in faint objects.

For example, a 6" or even 5" (=130mm, great entry level telescopes, such as the heritage 130p) will show the planets, moon, and open star clusters very well. It will show many galaxies and nebulas, under good, dark skies, even the shapes and some structure of galaxies.

But from 8" (200mm aperture) on it will get more interesting, as there are many galaxies that will show spiral arms, and dust lanes... Plus star clusters can be resolved far into the centre, while in 4" they would look like a smudge with a few outer stars visible.

The reason why "dobsonian" telescopes are so popular, is that they don't have a tripod, sitting in a sturdy, wooden "rocker-box", thus eliminating the need of an expensive tripod and equatorial mount. For visual observations the best deal, as all money can go into the telescope itself.

As said, all telescopes will allow you to view at day too, just never look into the sun without a front sun filter!

:-)

Good luck choosing a telescope, don't hessitate to ask questions here, all are very friendly and helpful.

[nicks90]

if you want terrestrial vewing as well as a motorised mount, probably best looking at an alt/az goto mount and sticking a wide field refractor telescope on it. something like this perhaps

http://www.firstligh...an-az-goto.html

i envy where you live, very dark skies and little light pollution! Aperture isnt everything, a 4" scope can show as much in dark skies as a 8" scope can in a suburban town.

[rwilkey]

I agree with Nick above, a good 4" (102mm) refractor will be perfect for astronony and terrestrial work, the Sky Watcher Startravel 102 SynScan is perfect I think, geared for astronomy and land use with the 45° Erect Image Diagonal (1.25”), so you have all the options you have asked for in one go. Love the Pyrenees by the way, have holidayed in the western Pyranees a number of times. By the way, welcome to the forum!

[LukeSkywatcher]

I agree with Nick above, a good 4" (102mm) refractor will be perfect for astronony and terrestrial work, the Sky Watcher Startravel 102 SynScan is perfect I think, geared for astronomy and land use with the 45° Erect Image Diagonal (1.25”), so you have all the options you have asked for in one go. Love the Pyrenees by the way, have holidayed in the western Pyranees a number of times. By the way, welcome to the forum!

Good idea about the refrac. It means no messing about with collimation. The erect prism is also a selling point considering the OP requirements. Dont forget that it will need a power source.

[squoppy]

thank you one and all for all the replies, so helpful, and i will be ploughing through the ideas you have all given me.

we are terribly lucky here, as there is no street lights anywhere nearby, so we have pitch black skies and can see everything beautifully.

I wondered if we could get a good telescope for our needs for about £3 - £400 , is that possible ?

will have a look. thanks again

[Schorhr]

even a smaller telescope will show you the planets, and I have seen saturn's rings through a 20€/17£ telescope.

But as said previously, for more beautiful views of "deep sky" objects aperture is key.

So you can either get a motorized, small maksutov or refractor with GoTo for about £300, even lower if you settle for a not-so-good telescope (Katadiopter, or small aperture).

A 127 maksutov or 130/650 newtonian reflector telescope is a great start and will show some deepsky.

As smaller choices go, a 102/500 refractor will be compact but not good at high magnifications (so not ideal for planets).

As there is no perfect telescope, there's a compromise to be made somewhere :-)

But please don't let Goto and the collimation/adjusting of newton type telescopes fool you.

The GoTo is a nice thing, but planets can be found very Easily, as they are among the brightest objects in the sky. And even fainter deep sky objects can be found by using (free) maps.

Tracking by hand is easy, even at higher magnifications, and collimation is a matter of a minute or two after you've done it once or twice with a manual.

The rule of thumb is, that a telescope with an aperture of 70mm could magnify around 140x, and as you have great conditions there you should be able to use 200-260x quite often. More is often limited by athmospheric turbulances.

So lots of ranting, little suggestions.

If you are into deepsky (galaxies, nebula) as well, get a 200/1200 dobsonian (282gbp), and two to three eyepieces (66 degree UWA for around 27gpp each).

If you are looking for a compact, budget solution, get a 102-127mm mak (150-220gbp on a tripod or ) or short-ish 102mm refractor, or a 130/650 newtonian (325gbp on goto mount or 120-130gbp on dobsonian rockerbox), as they are light/short and cheap mounts can usualy carry them well.

I have seen a current deal, 70/900 on a goto mount, for just 145gbp.

But the mount alone costs the most, these type of telescopes alone can be bought for as low as 20-40gbp. They will show you a nice, tiny saturn and jupiter though, but nothing earth shattering.

Again, aperture is key, even with planets, I would not go for aperture under 100mm anymore unless weight or price is the main criteria.

Here an example for deep-sky.

http://clarkvision.com/visastro/m51-apert/

and

http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.binoviewer.at%2Fbeobachtungspraxis%2Fteleskopvergleich_deepsky.htm&act=url (automated translation)

keep in mind these drawings where done by a experienced observer and after looking at the galaxy with different magnifications. But I find it does resemble the overall visual experience you get after you are done observing and pack up your telescope...

Even though a goto mount can point at 14.000 objects or more, it does not mean you're going to see much, perhaps a faint smudge in the sky, perhaps nothing at all ;-)

As for planets, excuse my crude sketches, but it will look like this at 140x through a smaller, cheap 70mm telescope

http://ringohr.de/tmp5/2013-05-04_Saturn-h76p_contrast.jpg

while in a 130mm telescope you will start to see more details

http://www.ringohr.de/tmp5/saturn_small_130p_260x.jpg

But of course 70mm is not 70mm. There's the "toy" 70/900 refractor sold many times, and it's decent, but a great 70mm refractor can cost much much more.

Also don't let color images fool you, as especially in small telescopes, the objects will more likely look like these frames at the top of the article

http://www.astr.ua.edu/keel/telescopes/nashville.html

And keep in mind the planet will be small at max. magnification, or if you go above max.mag. you will loose image contrast and it get's darker.

https://www.astronomics.com/how-big-will-saturn-look-through-my-telescope_t.aspx

[m37]

As above suggested, I have that very scope (skywatcher star travel 102 on as goto) and for moon, planets and terrestrial it works really well.

On the moon you will get decent magnification and a good detailed view without needing to buy anything else.

Planets will, be visible, for example Saturn, but be prepared for a very small view even with the 2x Barlow (double magnifying accessory).

You can easily hook up a DSLR with just a fairly cheap camera adaptor. The scope has the thread to attach this to it directly.

Clusters can be seen nicely, and terrestrial viewing and photography are both great.

Cheers

[squoppy]

Further to my request for help in august,I have been looking at all the celestial / terrestial telescopes that you have all recommended and it does seem to me that a star travel 102 is possibly the best one for beginners to be able to view moon, planets etc, but is not too complicated.

It is priced at £300 and I was wondering if before I pay for it if there is another cheaper scope that does sky and earth that is comparable at a les price or should I just bite the bullet, get it for husband and satisfy myself that I have got the best option for what we are after ?

Any last thoughts would be so welcome

Thanks

[Schorhr]

For daytime observation you could also just get a spotting scope that will be very transporable, even more then most telescopes. A tripod will do, and even moon and some asronomy targets will work. Also everything is the right way around. Just as an example, http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/181226465756?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1

something like these are pretty decent for their low price, in the UK I was only able to find the same thing for 45£ but I am sure they can be asked for intl. Quotes.

in adition a larger aperture telescope; For all astronomical targets aperture is importaint due to the increase of resolution and brightness.

I think 100mm aperture is a nice entry level telescope, but for deepsky that's a little small.

Also a 100/500mm refractor will have color fringe, with the 130p Planets still look nice at 260x if the conditions allow...

Goto isn't everything! :-)

but it's of course a nice thing to have, just should not limit your budget for aperture.

[brantuk]

All good advice above. My suggestion would be a long focal length Maksutov telescope which is ideally suited to high contrast views of planets and moon - it will work well on deep sky objects too - and if you add an additional erecting eyepiece or amici prism it will right the view for daytime observing of terrestrial objects. It includes slow motion cable controls for manual operation and star tracking, also an adequate tripod and mount to accommodate it's weight with few vibration problems, and falls within your price bracket.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-127-eq3-2.html

You could pick this one up second hand for around £250, but do have an experienced amateur with you to help determine it's condition. Hope that helps

[Schorhr]

I'd like one of those :-)

But even with the smaller one the cool-down time is quite long, and (as well as with the f/5 newtons) maskutovs have a relativly large secondary mirror (I think about 30% diameter, 11% surface) reducing the contrast to a refractor visibly (while 20% is generally accepted). Also Maskutovs often only have a 1.25" focuser, so a 32mm Plossl will still have close to 50x, making them difficult to use for large deepsky targets, while a short focal length newtonian cann still be used for planets with either a barlow or one of the 2.5-4mm TMB/BST eyepieces.  

But as allways, every telescope has pros and cons

[timetraveler3]

Hi,

I am in the same boat. My friend has on observatory I am am inspired to get a scope, can't wait. I have been researching them for two months and when I can afford it I plan to buy a Zhumell Z10, a 10 inch dobsonian scope. You get a lot of scope quality for not much money. A ten inch will give you amazing views of the stars and planets plus deep space objects.  The Zhumell line has great reviews everywhere I have looked.  The ten inch is only $489 with free shipping. You will probably want to upgrade the eyepiece before long though.  

It will not have star tracking ability but I think it will be fun to learn to find things the old fashioned way! The view of the the ten inch I think will be worth it.

[Stargazer_00]

For the budget id get a second hand 200p for astronomy and a second hand 80 or 100mm refractor for terrestial use and wide field astronomy on an az tripod.