Skywatcher 10" Steel Quattro First Impressions

[Singlin]

When my Quattro arrived I found two small 2mm ball bearings at the bottom of the scope tube on the side of the primary mirror.

On close inspection I found that they had fallen out of the focuser draw tube housing.

I managed to buy some extra 2mm ball bearings and as about 5 were missing I replaced them.

I also found that the saddle that holds the 4 Bearings that keep the draw tube centred and tight were out of alignment. I had only 2 bearings on one side actually rolling and the other two were barely touching the draw tube and therefore not rolling.I used the Allen bolts on the outside of the focuser to centralise the saddle and get the draw tube centred with all 4 of the bearings rolling.

I also took the opportunity to drill a 1.5mm hole on the opposite side of the focuser to make collimation of the draw tube easier. I just shined a torch against the hole from the outside and used a Cheshire to centralise the focuser.

I flocked the front end of my tube from the baffles out and used black board paint to stealth the draw tube, spider vanes etc and all the nuts and bolts on the inside of the tube. I also flocked the rear of my primary mirror and stealthed the sides of the primary too.

This is when I had problems with the bolts of the primary mirror. I managed to shear everyone of them except for 3.

I used a heat gun to gently heat the sides of the primary holder and then I managed to extract all of the sheared bolts. I replaced them with European grade steel ones.

I also found that Skywatcher used the same size rubber bolt mounts for the primary mirror as I had on my 8" 200p. The bolts were far to tight with the flange of the mounts pressing firmly on the primary mirror. This caused me allot of grief at the beginning with ghosting.

I loosened the primary bolts with about .5 of a mm gape between the mirror and the rubber flange. Ghosting has since disappeared.

Yesterday my CatSeye collimation kit arrived and I have just got back from doing a star test. I am blown away by the result and ease of collimation.

As a beginner I feel that I have just about got away with the change my the skin of my teeth.

The scope was more of a mess viz a vie ready out of the box compared to my 200P.

This required allot of research and commitment to get sorted out.

The catseye collimator has taken the interpolation out of the equation with my collimating and hence brought the telescope to life.

This scope is definitely not plug and play !

I nearly pulled my hair out on a couple of occasions but the only way forward was to solve the problems one by one and by doing so I have learnt a whole new set of skills with the bond of Man and Newtonian even stronger.

[ollypenrice]

Honestly I just wish that SW and others would stop pretending that you can make fast Newtonian astrographs for this kind of price. You can't, you can only sell kits to make them! You seem to have made a good job of yours though you're having bothers with the vanes now?

I would be very careful with black markers. Have a look at this. http://www.sbig.com/blog/flat-fields-the-ugly-truth/ There is a danger that you may be scattering UV reflections around the scope if the blacks use dyes rather than pigments, it seems.

Olly

[Singlin]

Olly I used Grey black board paint.

[badgerchap]

Hmmmm....this worries me, particularly with what Olly says - is this kind of thing typical of all cheap fast newts? I have a 6" f4 from TS (original selling price around £300) but I'm not hot enough on the mechanics of scope construction to know whether or not mine is up to par. After reading this I'll have a little investigation, methinks.

Glad you got it sorted now though. I've been tempted by these Quattros, so I'd love to hear how you get on with it now you've given it a makeover!

[ollypenrice]

Hmmmm....this worries me, particularly with what Olly says - is this kind of thing typical of all cheap fast newts? I have a 6" f4 from TS (original selling price around £300) but I'm not hot enough on the mechanics of scope construction to know whether or not mine is up to par. After reading this I'll have a little investigation, methinks.

Glad you got it sorted now though. I've been tempted by these Quattros, so I'd love to hear how you get on with it now you've given it a makeover!

A friend had one of the GSO F4 Newts. One night all the baffles came loose from the tube and clattered down towards the mirror - which survived. He has now put the mirrors in a workable tube and lens cell. When I tried one I found exactly what this friend found on his; the focuser was not capable of holding the camera orthogonal. It always had tilt, perhaps because the tube itself was flexing.

I just wish the makers would stop trying to make these fast imaging Newts so cheaply. Even if they doubled the price there is a potentially good scope to had there. As it is people have to do so much sorting out themselves and this is not fair since it is not made clear by the makers. A good Quattro is a good scope, of that there's little doubt but there is also little doubt that they are works in progress as supplied.

Olly

[Zakalwe]

I just wish the makers would stop trying to make these fast imaging Newts so cheaply. Even if they doubled the price there is a potentially good scope to had there. As it is people have to do so much sorting out themselves and this is not fair since it is not made clear by the makers. A good Quattro is a good scope, of that there's little doubt but there is also little doubt that they are works in progress as supplied.

^^All of this^^

I've seen some posts from new owners that have pointed out that SW have changed the focuser to a linear bearing focuser, which apparently, is incapable of holding a camera square. Now given that these are marketed and sold as astrographs then how the devil are they (the distributors and retailers) getting away with selling them with focusers that are not up to the job? Surely there's a case of "goods not fit for stated purpose" here?

Again, I'll state my desire that manufacturers ship the OTAs without any focuser (as an option) to allow the buyer the choice of specing a decent one from the start.

[Macavity]

A good "Warts and All" review! And from hardly (as so many of us now) a "beginner"?

But Inspiration - Rather an exhortation to "forbid the sale" of such things? [teasing]

That tempered with the notion of "fit for purpose" etc. But I struggle to think of any of my

"equipment" as *that* - By Default. Maybe the process of becoming an Astronomer?

[tonedeaf]

that´s why teleskop austria made this -> http://www.teleskop-austria.at/shop/index.php?lng=eng&m=2&kod=newt-250-100-fl&skod=%209&om=TELESCOPE

a "whole" upgrade of the "from the shelf" quattros

makes it an interesting alternative...

[PARTY MARTY]

I own the 8" Quattro Steel variant and one of the very first ones I've bought when they first released with the decent four ball bearing linear focuser, however it seems the new batch ones, I noticed that there's a few people have had problems with new ones, with these new horrible linear focusers! I notice that I've ordered a EQ-6 half pillar extension which I've waited well over 3 months and it seems Skywatcher have been very slow to delivery the goods and I'm still waiting???. Skywatcher seem to be letting the side down a bit??? I don't know what's going on here, but it seems that things that the Skywatcher quality is slipping abit???

So far all my telescopes have been reliably working fine up to now, but I'm completely getting detered away the new stuff from Skywatcher which reportly being faulty???

[laser_jock99]

When my Quattro arrived I found two small 2mm ball bearings at the bottom of the scope tube on the side of the primary mirror.

On close inspection I found that they had fallen out of the focuser draw tube housing.

I managed to buy some extra 2mm ball bearings and as about 5 were missing I replaced them.

I also found that the saddle that holds the 4 Bearings that keep the draw tube centred and tight were out of alignment. I had only 2 bearings on one side actually rolling and the other two were barely touching the draw tube and therefore not rolling.I used the Allen bolts on the outside of the focuser to centralise the saddle and get the draw tube centred with all 4 of the bearings rolling.

I also took the opportunity to drill a 1.5mm hole on the opposite side of the focuser to make collimation of the draw tube easier. I just shined a torch against the hole from the outside and used a Cheshire to centralise the focuser.

I flocked the front end of my tube from the baffles out and used black board paint to stealth the draw tube, spider vanes etc and all the nuts and bolts on the inside of the tube. I also flocked the rear of my primary mirror and stealthed the sides of the primary too.

This is when I had problems with the bolts of the primary mirror. I managed to shear everyone of them except for 3.

I used a heat gun to gently heat the sides of the primary holder and then I managed to extract all of the sheared bolts. I replaced them with European grade steel ones.

I also found that Skywatcher used the same size rubber bolt mounts for the primary mirror as I had on my 8" 200p. The bolts were far to tight with the flange of the mounts pressing firmly on the primary mirror. This caused me allot of grief at the beginning with ghosting.

I loosened the primary bolts with about .5 of a mm gape between the mirror and the rubber flange. Ghosting has since disappeared.

Yesterday my CatSeye collimation kit arrived and I have just got back from doing a star test. I am blown away by the result and ease of collimation.

As a beginner I feel that I have just about got away with the change my the skin of my teeth.

The scope was more of a mess viz a vie ready out of the box compared to my 200P.

This required allot of research and commitment to get sorted out.

The catseye collimator has taken the interpolation out of the equation with my collimating and hence brought the telescope to life.

This scope is definitely not plug and play !

I nearly pulled my hair out on a couple of occasions but the only way forward was to solve the problems one by one and by doing so I have learnt a whole new set of skills with the bond of Man and Newtonian even stronger.

Interesting review- it seems you scope almost arrived as a kit! Anyone buying one of the F4 scopes needs to be prepared to 're-engineer' parts of it to make them stable.

A list a upgrades you might consider:

1) Throw away the supplied dovetail and get a longer Losmandy type bar. Get the scope rings spaced further apart and on a stronger bar.

2) Add a top bar for extra stability of the scope rings.

3) Upgrade the primary mirror springs for stronger ones.

4) Throw away the useless 'mirror locking' knobs and replace with more compression springs.

5) Reinforce the tube wall under the focuser with a piece of suitably curved steel plate (this will stop the focuser twisting when you hang a heavy camera off it).

Plus some other tweaks described here:

Have fun!

[Singlin]

Thanks for the advice Laser

I have already put an Altair Atro Losmandy dovetail plate.

I have already put a vixen dovetail bar on the top for extra stability.

I will read up on your links for the extra modifications.

[Singlin]

Would it be possible to bond a Carbon fibre collar all around the scope at the height of the focuser?

Does carbon fibre bond well to steel?

[laser_jock99]

Would it be possible to bond a Carbon fibre collar all around the scope at the height of the focuser?

Does carbon fibre bond well to steel?

It's possible I guess, if you can find the right piece of CF tube and some Epoxy Resin. My current plan is to start with a flat a strip of steel plate (or maybe aluminium for lightness). Cut out a hole for the focuser, roller bend this into the right radius, then epoxy and rivet the formed curve INSIDE the OTA. The plate inside can then be painted black or flocked and nobody would know it was there. The four focuser screws will also help hold the plate.

[ollypenrice]

The positives for Carbon are low expansion (which means holding focus) and stiffness (holding the focuser orthogonal under load.) The negative is heat insulation keeping the tube warm inside. This can be sorted by blowing air across the primary, which for some rreason hardly anybody ever does, despite the evidence in its favour. Ideally a suck fan on one side and a blow fan on the other.

Olly