Just Starting Out

[StarHappy]

Hi,

Spurred on by the recent Stargazing Live shows I have just bought my first telescope, a Celestron Astromaster 130EQ. After a few sessions getting to know my scope I have decided already that I want to try a bit of imaging. First, after alot of reading and research (something I should have done before getting my first scope) I have realised that the first necessity is a decent mount for tracking.

I quite like the appeal of the GOTO function, so am toying with the idea of the Skywatcher EQ3 PRO SynScan GOTO mount. However, although I know this mount has the payload to handle my present scope, I would like to upgrade the scope at some point in the future but the price jump to the EQ5 SynScan GOTO is quite considerable. This EQ5 is within my budget, but takes funds from my next necessary purchase - an imager of some sorts.

At this point it should be noted that my interest lies within DSO imaging rather than planetary/lunar, having looked at many choices of imager I think the most cost effective means could be a DSLR camera. The Cannon 500D looks promising, and have found a 'body only' for around £200. I'm having difficulty visualising how/what I need for a complete package to get started. At the moment I see my 5" reflector, EQ3/EQ5 Synscan GOTO mount, Canon 500D and a laptop. I have read a bit about guiding and see that the mount has an ST-4 autoguiding port, but am not sure how autoguiding differs from using the mount for tracking (i guess its more accurate for longer exposures?). If it's something I need to do for imaging, then this raises even more questions, do I need a seperate piggy-backed OTA for an autoguider, obviously introducing more cost. Remember, I am just trying to get started and get some half-decent images while keeping the overall cost down.

As an estimate of my budget (which varies every day ) I'm looking to spend no more than £1000.

So, the mount (EQ5) = £530, the imager (Canon 500D) = £200 T-ring/Adaptors = £30 Filters = £60

Total = £820

Or, the cheaper EQ3 mount = £390

Total = £680

Any advice would be warmly received

[johnrt]

Hi & welcome to the forum.

A quick google search will tell you that you will not be able to bring a DSLR to focus with the Celestron 130 reflector without significantly modding it or fitting a new focuser. They are unfortunately not designed for imaging purposes.

I would suggest that you go ahead and buy a mount, to be honest the EQ5 is considered below the minimum standard required for imaging, really you will need an HEQ5 as it will cover you when you move up to putting a scope on it. If you buy a lesser mount to begin with you will only end up replacing it later having realised it will not track accurately enough for imaging. DSO imaging relies on long exposures to capture what can be very dim targets - build your rig from the mount up - it is the single most important bit of kit you will buy.

Also go ahead and buy the camera/filters etc, you can then mount your camera on the HEQ5 mount with some normal lenses to begin with and capture some great widefield shots. This will let you find your feet and let the finances recover before you move up to a scope purchase for your camera. Most people start off with an ED80 refractor, lightweight, fast optics and good quality. It is a workhorse scope for even experienced imagers.

A lot of people will also recommend Steve Richards book available from the forum sponsor FLO a good reference to get you familiar with techniques and concepts in imaging. I've not read it myself but lots on here have and recommend it highly, I also know Steve is a knowledgable man from his posts and advice on this forum.

Lastly imaging DSO's is not cheap, be prepared to exceed that budget you have set before you have a rig you're satisfied with.

[Itabot]

Hi welcome to SGL

[StarHappy]

I would suggest that you go ahead and buy a mount, to be honest the EQ5 is considered below the minimum standard required for imaging, really you will need an HEQ5 as it will cover you when you move up to putting a scope on it. If you buy a lesser mount to begin with you will only end up replacing it later having realised it will not track accurately enough for imaging. DSO imaging relies on long exposures to capture what can be very dim targets - build your rig from the mount up - it is the single most important bit of kit you will buy.

Thanks for this, I was thinking that may be the case, but now I have a problem..I have found 3 different types of HEQ5...

HEQ5 Mount and Tripod for £519

HEQ5 SynTrek for £649

and HEQ5 PRO SynScan GOTO for £789

I think the basic model will be out of the question as it won't track, atleast not accurately.

What's the difference between the SynTrek and Synscan? Can I use a Syntrek coupled with a laptop and suitable software to act as a GOTO without the need for the expensive PRO system?

Also, before I invest in a new scope, is there any way I can start using my current scope for imaging (using a webcam perhaps?)

Thanks in advance

Hi welcome to SGL

Thanks, it's good to be here

[johnrt]

What's the difference between the SynTrek and Synscan? Can I use a Syntrek coupled with a laptop and suitable software to act as a GOTO without the need for the expensive PRO system?

Yes the only difference between the Syntrek & Pro is the hand controller. You can save £100 and buy the Syntrek version and just control it via laptop.

I don't really know about using a webcam with your 130EQ, it may be possible, I just had a quick search for other people using a DSLR with one to find if it is possible to focus. The main problem with using a reflector for imaging is the lack of inward travel in focus which won't allow the camera to come to focus which is the case with yours.

[StarHappy]

Yes the only difference between the Syntrek & Pro is the hand controller. You can save £100 and buy the Syntrek version and just control it via laptop.

Thanks, that's the answer I was hoping for ...so it seems I now have the mount dilema sorted.

Does the mount come with the software to do this, or is there software I need to purchase...also, is there anything I need to connect the laptop to the mount that isn't included in the bundle?

[themos]

You will need this to connect an HEQ5 Syntrek to a laptop running the EQMOD telescope driver. (Or you can make one yourself, many people have).

http://www.firstligh...ir-adapter.html

The EQMOD software is all here http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/

[StarHappy]

You will need this to connect an HEQ5 Syntrek to a laptop running the EQMOD telescope driver. (Or you can make one yourself, many people have).

http://www.firstligh...ir-adapter.html

The EQMOD software is all here http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/

Excellent, thankyou

[swag72]

A really good purchase will be the book @Making Every Photon Count' that is available from the FLO book section, as John said in an earlier post. It really is an excellent book for DSO imagers, and will explain everything that you need, how it all works and why you need it.

The HEQ5 mount is a good recommendation, there are many of us on here who use them. It's been detailed the bits you need to get it to work, so I'll not repeat that. With the mount you can of course do some great widefield imaging with a DSLR for starters, so you don't need a scope. Steve covers this in his book as well!!

Unfortunately though AP is expensive (as you have found out with the mount!!) and you will always want something more to make it that little bit bettter!! Good luck though and enjoy it!

[themos]

Of course, you'll need to download ASCOM Platform 6SP1 software first, as EQMOD is an ASCOM driver (among other goodies) http://ascom-standards.org/Downloads/Index.htm

[themos]

If you want to keep costs down, you could do what I did and image with only a DSLR+camera lens and a simple tracking mount. I used an EQ1 tabletop mount that I converted to autoguided operation, here it is

[StarHappy]

Thanks for all the advice, there is so much to learn, and I have learnt more from an hour in this forum than from a few weeks trawling the net

Something I have only recently realised is that the images I am hoping to capture will not be visible to me no matter what scope or magnification I get. And that it's all down to long exposure of low light levels, with some filters and computer magic thrown in. So far, one thing I am certain about is the mount....the HEQ5 SynTrek with a laptop is definitely where I must start. Although in my earlier post I said that my budget is £1000, this is just what will be available to me over the next few weeks and I can certainly add to that in the future. So, to summarise, in the very near future I shall be purchasing the mount and the EQDIR adapter. Before this I will be getting a copy of 'Every Photon Counts', and getting my reading head on .

I shall also look into a DSLR for wide-angle shots to begin with.

Once I have grasped the basics and had a good few practices I will then look into a suitable scope (ED80 was mentioned earlier, although I'm not totally sure what this is )

In the mean time, here's my very first images taken using my phones camera held to the EP

[themos]

That HEQ5 Syntrek is going to take a huge bite out of your budget. The 3 expensive elements are optics-mount-sensor. You should probably be thinking of spending roughly equal amounts of money on each. The HEQ5 Syntrek has swallowed 2/3 of your budget and you're not even guiding yet.

[DaveS]

Reading the OP's posts, I think it's justified. Buy the best mount you can afford even if you have to wait a little to buy the other things. Don't skimp on the mount then find yourself having to sell it for something better later.

I might even think of going to an NEQ6, which would swallow most of the budget and use it to mount a DSLR and lens for the moment. Yes it might look daft but you wouldn't need to buy another mount unless you were going into another league.

Having said which I still probably would go with the HEQ5 Syntrek.

[StarHappy]

That HEQ5 Syntrek is going to take a huge bite out of your budget. The 3 expensive elements are optics-mount-sensor. You should probably be thinking of spending roughly equal amounts of money on each. The HEQ5 Syntrek has swallowed 2/3 of your budget and you're not even guiding yet.

£1000 is just an intitial figure that I will have available in the coming weeks, with another £1000 in a month or so. So although it is a high initial outlay, I am definitely looking for a half-decent setup within 2 months.

Guiding is something I'm unsure about though, from my initial research it seems that you have a seperate guiding scope piggy-backed to the imaging scope to guide it ?

To be honest, initially I want to get my setup ready for imaging before deciding on which sensor to buy...and as was said previously 'build your rig from the mount up'.

To be able to use the mount and laptop as a GOTO, and one that will provide enough payload for a nice scope is my first hurdle. Once I have that behind me I will move on to a scope then a sensor.

In any case, the most important thing I can do is buy the book recommmended earlier and have a good read before leaping headfirst into this fascinating hobby

I will say, that I almost went for a Meade LS 8" ACF, but have decided that it's alot of money for something that isn't going to give me what I want. I have a tendancy to leap before I look, only this time I want to do things right from the start.

[themos]

I did some costings last year of this ultra-cheap astrophotography rig in the picture above.

1. Mount £102
   
2. Guiding £ 161
   
3. Camera £310
   
4. Optics £165
   

Total £738. Adding Canon L-series glass for the optics took it to more than £1100. If you buy the HEQ5 Syntrek I can't imagine you'll have any change from £2000 for the whole kit.

[DaveS]

Something to consider is if you're going to be observing / imaging from, say, your back garden or taking the kit out on the road. I see you're in / near Salisbury but how dark is the sky? LP *can* be quite localised in the country so maybe your skies are dark enough.

The reason I ask is that altough the HEQ5 is reasonably portable (Mount / tripod / scope broken apart in the back of a car) the NEQ6 is in a different league and really needs a semi-permanant location, or even an obsy.

[StarHappy]

Something to consider is if you're going to be observing / imaging from, say, your back garden or taking the kit out on the road. I see you're in / near Salisbury but how dark is the sky? LP *can* be quite localised in the country so maybe your skies are dark enough.

The reason I ask is that altough the HEQ5 is reasonably portable (Mount / tripod / scope broken apart in the back of a car) the NEQ6 is in a different league and really needs a semi-permanant location, or even an obsy.

Yes, portability is a must. I have a location picked out (my dad's house is in the middle of nowhere with very little LP).

You're absolutely right themos, it will be quite costly in the end. I know that your setup will be a great start to AP, I just think that the mount will be future-proof for my needs. It will firstly serve me well for some good observing sessions whilst the funds for the extra kit begin to build up.

In any case, I will be taking my time and (probably) changing my mind as I look more into it

[themos]

My cheapo setup is a work-in-progress, it hasn't really proved that it can deliver yet so I am not recommending it! What I wanted to show you was that even paring things down to a minimum ends up costing more than you'd think.

[StarHappy]

My cheapo setup is a work-in-progress, it hasn't really proved that it can deliver yet so I am not recommending it! What I wanted to show you was that even paring things down to a minimum ends up costing more than you'd think.

Understood, and thanks for taking the time to helping me wade through the numerous options

As far as the mount and scope are concerned, I think I will head towards an 80mm ED (have now done a bit of googling and found out what one of these is)...once these goals have been achieved I will look further into sensors.

[Scott]

as previously stated you plan on spending around £2000. if this is the case you really MUST buy "making every photon count" FIRST. spending £20ish up front could and probably will save you hundreds down the track. Moving up to the heq5 is a really smart move. I started with a Eq5+motors and you can get very reasonable results but you must be prepared to throw away 75-80% of your subs and with sky-time being so rare here in the UK you don't want to be wasting any more than is absolutely necessary. just remember, spending £2000 on a rig doesn't guarantee good results. you've still got to put in the effort and research. After all, if you're gonna spend your hard earned, you really should know what you need and what it does and how to do it. Don't get me wrong, I'm still at the bottom of the very steep learning curve myself. I'm don't mean to come across as critical, I'm just trying to save you money. Buy The Book......

[StarHappy]

as previously stated you plan on spending around £2000. if this is the case you really MUST buy "making every photon count" FIRST. spending £20ish up front could and probably will save you hundreds down the track. Moving up to the heq5 is a really smart move. I started with a Eq5+motors and you can get very reasonable results but you must be prepared to throw away 75-80% of your subs and with sky-time being so rare here in the UK you don't want to be wasting any more than is absolutely necessary. just remember, spending £2000 on a rig doesn't guarantee good results. you've still got to put in the effort and research. After all, if you're gonna spend your hard earned, you really should know what you need and what it does and how to do it. Don't get me wrong, I'm still at the bottom of the very steep learning curve myself. I'm don't mean to come across as critical, I'm just trying to save you money. Buy The Book......

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback...that book is indeed my top priority..I just have to wait until Thursday (pay day) before ordering a copy