Starter kit for gazing and photography

[Sci Fi Guy]

Evening all!

I'm sure you get a load of posts like this here, but I've been doing my research and I'm still just a little knowledge off understanding what's going to be best for me.

Basically, I'm wanting to see some good solar system objects like planets, satellites and the moon etc, aswell as maybe some deeper space gubbins like stars, clouds and clusters. I'm also looking to be able to take some pics while I'm doing it.

My folks are chipping in with me for xmas and I reckon my total budget is gonna be about £400 for a scope and some camera action.

I've been reading up and I reckon my best bet for a scope is the Celestron C8-N. It seems to be highly regarded and can be picked up for £300 from good old David Hinds if I get my skates on. I have read that the CG-5 mount makes a bit of a racket but if my neighbours are used to Drum'n'Bass at 4am I'm sure they won't mind that.

I've also read that for imaging, a good bet would be the ToUcam 2 pro, but since they're hard to come by these days maybe the v3 would be good, or perhaps the NexImage CCD.

I reckon I'll save some cash and avoid GOTO as then I'll learn more about navigating the sky.

Some things still escape me though - without GOTO, can my scope still track a star for long exposure shots? I'll prob mod the camera for this - the CS1 or 1.5 I think it's called, and want to make the most of it, but I'm not sure what the crack is with the tracking ability if it's not got GOTO.

I'm assuming the 200mm aperture is good (I wish like hell I'd paid more attention in physics at school), but I'm not sure if I need extra pieces here and there to get going properly, like the extra lens thing that begins with a 'B' (excuse my intimate knowledge of the terminology here chaps).

I'm not expecting miracles for my budget and I'm really just looking for reassurance I'm making the right selections before I fork out. Cheers for your time guys.

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

The 8 inch Newtonian 'scope is a good all-rounder, so you can't go far wrong with it. If the mount has a drive, it will track stuff OK even without goto, so you're correct there. The Toucam III is good too, and much easier to modify than the older versions (accidentally, I don't think they did it on purpose). You will want, if not need the Barlow lens, but its likely that you'll get one in the kit.

I'm off to look for your intro. bit in the welcome section now, but if you haven't got round to finding that yet, welcome to SGL.

Kaptain Klevtsov

[GazOC]

Thats pretty much the kit I'd buy (or its Skywatcher equivilent) if I were starting up astronomy again. Portable but with decent aperture on a steady mount and at a reasonable price...covers all the bases really.

[Sci Fi Guy]

Nice one! So I assume I just need a mount for the camera and a Barlow lens and I'm sorted. Nice one guys!

[Helen]

For the toucam all you'll need is a nose-piece to attach to the front of it and then it will fit in where the eyepiece would otherwise go (you use it instead of an eyepiece)

Helen

[philsail1]

Hello "Sci-Fi-Guy"!

Have you considered the "Celestron" C-6 Reflector? I think its about £40 dearer than the Skywatcher 200mm, but it has "go-to" fitted. I have the Skywatcher 200, on the driven HEQ5 mount, and it is a good scope, but even though I've been observing with the scope for the last 6 months or so, I am still having great difficulty finding the deep-sky objects. Still having great difficulty using the "setting circles" - not so much in understanding how they work, but in holding a red torch, setting the circles, and moving the scope around the sky (it really is a three hands job!). I'm finding that I'm losing valuable observing time, and the scope is'nt being used to its full potential.

I know some "purists" regard "go-to" as a bit of a cheat, but the way I look at it is that we don't get many clear skies, and there aren't many of us who can spare a lot of time to sit out observing, so you really do need a scope that you can set up quickly and easily, and some method whereby you can find things easily and quickly. I'm not saying that "go-to" will provide the complete and easy answer, but it might help!

Sorry if I've thrown a spanner in the works! but that's my personal view anyway (and if I knew back then what I know now (which is very little more!) I would have gone for the scope with the "go-to."

Best wishes,

philsail1

[Sci Fi Guy]

Hmm, you do make a good argument there Phil. I've been doing some more thinking today at work. The C8-N offer at David Hinds doesn't include a motor on the mount. That would mean photography would be pretty limited from what I can gather. Therefore, I'd need to add the motor which is another £145 which suddenly makes my £300 scope cost just shy of £450. Considering my budget is only around £400 I'm already floundering without even adding the camera and a Barlow lens.

I reckon it would make more sense to spend an extra £50 and get a GOTO all at once, rather than spend £450 for scope, mount and motor. I can still obviously spend time navigating if I want to (as it is something I reckon would be quite cool).

Also, would the change from the 200mm C8 to a 150mm C6 make much difference?

So chaps, more advice if you don't mind...

Do I simply go for the C8-N for £300 this xmas, then add motor and camera later on - or chuck in a little more now to get the C6 with GOTO and either add the camera later, or somehow blag my folks to consider this xmas and birthday all at once!?

[GazOC]

If you get the C8-N now you can add on motors, camera, GOTO etc as you go along, if you get the C6-N you can never add on the 'missing' two inches. There is quite a difference in views between a 8" Newt and a 6" Newt...

[Sci Fi Guy]

Hmm, this is going to need some more thought. Maybe just going outright for the C8-N GT would satisfy me all in one go. I don't mind putting it off an extra month to put some extra cash into it.

I'll sleep on it, then do some more research while I pretend to work tomorrow

[philsail1]

Hello again Sci-Fi-Guy!

As a member of SGL you would qualify for a 10% discount off the C8-NGT from David Hinds. This would bring the price down from £599.00 to £539.10p (+ whatever postage there is on the scope).

The C6-NGT would drop to £476.10p (+ Postage).

However, there may be other scopes you could use for photography. I would advise you to seek some more advice from SGL members before committing yourself to any particular scope. I rushed in somewhat when I went for an upgrade from the littel Skywatcher 130P I started out with. (This scope was a 5.5" motor driven reflector).

"Gaz O'C" is right in saying that there is quite a difference in what you can see through a 6" and 8" scope.

However, do ask the members about "focal lengths" (unless you already know) and how this aspect of a telescope plays an important part in astro photography. You can get a "short" focal length 6" reflector which will give good wide views of the stars but will not be so sharp on the planets (and will not cope with the higher magnifications that a longer focal lenght scope will), or you can go for a longer focal lenght 6" reflector such as the Skywatcher 150PL which will give sharper images, but a narrower field of view.

It does all depend upon what you yourself wants from a telescope. Unless one spends thousands of "£" it is impossible to get a scope that fulfills all the criteria you may be looking for. Before you buy, try to have a serious think about such things as:-

How much time you have to spend outside viewing the heavens.

What is your location like for clear un-light polluted skies.

Do you want an easy to set up and operate scope.

Can you cope with something that may take several minutes of carefull setting up (and putting away after your observing session)

Have you got storage space for a large telescope.

Do you want to upgrade your scope in the future

Do you want to view mainly "deep sky" objects, or the major planets.

Do you want to develop your skills at astrophotography.

There may be many more questions to ask yourself - and this is where the other members of SGL will give you some very valuable advice.

There are two (sometimes conflicting) tenets in buying a telescope:-

1. "aperture is king" The bigger telescope you can buy, the better!

2. "the best scope is the one you use the most" (and such a scope does not necessarily have to be the biggest!).

Sorry if I'm complicating things even more for you.

Take Advice, advice and more advice. Get as many opinions as possible, and try and narrow your choices down, using your individual needs above all else.

Best wishes,

philsail1

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Maybe just going outright for the C8-N GT would satisfy me all in one go.

Oh dear, what you don't realise is that the 8" 'scope is enough to let you see loads of stuff up there. Satisfied? I think not.

Teasing aside, you need to get something big enough that the "aperture fever" doesn't kick in straight away, so the C8 will keep that at bay for some time. It's good that you haven't gone for a small "starter" 'scope as these appear to be designed to put you off before you get started.

Going back to your list of stuff that you want to look at, I see planets mentioned. These are bright enough that you can use high magnification on them, and small enough to need it. If you don't have a motorised mount you will be forever losing the planet from your view - they can be challenging to find again at high magnification.

The goto is very nice, but I find that I can send the 'scope to point at some exotic place far away, but I can't see it because I have lots of street light nearby. I can prove that the 'scope is pointed accurately by using a camera to get the image, but I still can't see the stuff visually. Finding stuff manually would be a complete no-no for me, so I'm holding my hand up in favour of goto. If you can afford it, get it, its ace, but don't be misled by the huge database of stuff that the mount will point accurately at, because you won't be le to see most of them from Leeds. I'm close by in Huddersfield, so if you want to check out how big these things really are, drop me a PM and pop round for a look.

Kaptain Klevtsov

[Sci Fi Guy]

Just been doing some quick forum browsing before I go to work. Based on the images I've seen I think I would take immense satisfaction from imaging the deep sky objects. Obviously I don't expect miracles right away, but I think whatever would enable me to maximise any images of the M-Class stuff ( I think that's it ) would suit me most. I'm assuming that such a scope would also let me see the moon and planets with reasonable success too, and I think that's the balance I would like.

I have a 6.3 megapixel digital camera right now anyway, so I think that will do me for now, having seen the success a lot of people have had with solar system objects using just a mobile phone!

If the C8-N GT will allow me the balance I'm looking for, weighted in favour of deep sky, I reckon I'm happy to spend the extra money on that, and buy a NexImage or something later on.

That way I get the best scope for my needs and (extended) budget, and enough amateur photography to keep myself amused without wanting more too soon.

I think I need to brush up on my tech a bit more and see how focal length etc is going to affect me.

I take it I ought to get myself a Barlow lens with my scope? And how about an IR filter?

Laters chaps, and thanks again for your invaluable help!

[philsail1]

That's good advice you've given there Captain Klevstov (And I always thought you were a Russian dissident, living somewhere outside of Moscow!).

Seriously though, I agree with you when you talk about the "huge database of stuff on the "go-to" - that you won't be able to see."

I've got the 8" Skywatcher Explorer Newt, and I'm having trouble finding stuff manually. When I do find it, it is nothing like the photos in magazines. I managed to find the "ring nebula" a few weeks ago, and it just looked like a very faint, grey, misty (and tiny!) smoke ring. I was both elated at finding it (after going in and out of the house to look at it's position on "stellarium," write down the co-ordinates on a scrap of paper, set the setting circles, loosen both axis locks, move the scope into position, lock both axis, check the setting circles, unlock both axis to make fine adjustments, re-check the setting circles and then use several different eyepieces (and my binoculars) until I eventually found the "ring Nebula!" (must have taken me about an hour). So yes, I will be saving up for the "go-to" upgrade - and would advise anyone starting out to try and stretch their budgets to get a scope with "go-to" fitted.

It is unfortunate for new people starting out with astronomy, that what sets out to be a seemingly simple choice of which scope to buy, quickly gets so complicated, but that's seems to be the nature of this hobby. (judging by the many different scopes (and £££££'s which most members go through in a relatively short space of time - I will have spent almost £1,000 on astronomical gear by the end of this year - and this is by no means an extravagant amount).

I hope "Sci-Fi-Guy" does manage to keep his wallet tightly closed until he is sure (from all the advice given here) of the kind of scope he wants (needs).

Regards,

philsail1

[Whippy]

I'll stick my oar in and say go for an 8" reflector (GOTO or not GOTO, the choice is yours amigo) like the C8N, SW 200P or even perhaps the Orion Optics. It should keep you amused for quite a while as it'll show you plenty of objects. Just be aware the GOTO versions of the CG5 mounts are pretty bleedin' noisy, but they do their job and do it well. If only they were a litle quieter....

Personally, I think it'd be best that you don't try and run before you can walk and learn to use your new scope before you even think about imaging. Just setting it up should keep you amused for a few nights .

Whatever you decide on, just enjoy it and let us know eh? And if you've got any questions, don't hesitate...

Tony..

[GazOC]

I've got the 8" Skywatcher Explorer Newt, and I'm having trouble finding stuff manually. When I do find it, it is nothing like the photos in magazines. I managed to find the "ring nebula" a few weeks ago, and it just looked like a very faint, grey, misty (and tiny!) smoke ring. I was both elated at finding it (after going in and out of the house to look at it's position on "stellarium," write down the co-ordinates on a scrap of paper, set the setting circles, loosen both axis locks, move the scope into position, lock both axis, check the setting circles, unlock both axis to make fine adjustments, re-check the setting circles and then use several different eyepieces (and my binoculars) until I eventually found the "ring Nebula!" (must have taken me about an hour).

Once you found and object for the first time, rather than use the setting circles to relocate it, its a lot easier just to remember (or make a note) where the objects are. Note down nearby bright stars or stars that 'point' to the object. In the case of the ring neb you just find Vega (brightest star in the summer sky), then look for the two bright stars close together nearby and M57 roughly is in the middle of those two stars.

[philsail1]

Thanks "Gaz O'C," that's very useful advice. I'll try to contain my excitement at finding something, to calm down and note the nearest stars next time. (I've not been able to find the "Ring Nebula" since!).

Regards,

philsail1

[Sci Fi Guy]

Well guys, I think I'm gonna take the plunge and get the C8-N GT. If my folks each chip in £100, and my sister hooks me up with a Barlow I'll be sorted.

Thanks so much for your help everyone! I really feel like I'm making an informed decision that is gonna help me acheive what it is I want to do here. If you don't see me around for a while it's because I'm off learning about filters and lenses and cameras and all sorts of other astro-related stuff! Realistically though I'll prob read something tonight and be straight back on here asking more questions! Regardless though, I'll definitely be back once I have my kit to share my enthusiasm with you all.

Laters gents!

Ben

[GazOC]

You'll love the scope, best 'bang for buck' around at the moment IMHO.

[philsail1]

Yes, I too think you've made a wise choice there "Sci-Fi-Guy." One you've got the "Go-to" going, you should have some exciting times with the CN-8GT.

Regards,

philsail1

[Tiny]

Just seen this thread. I was thinking of putting my Orion Optics Europa 8" on an Meade LXD75 'Go To' mount on the 'for sale' part of the Stargazer site at £550 collect. That might be of interest.

The experts out there can confirm that Orion make a very good scope while the LXD75 (already for sale on the site) is virtually as new.

[Sci Fi Guy]

Thanks for mentioning it man. I'm not sure how it would compare to the C8. My immediate tendancy is to stick with a new scope and full warranty for my first purchase, delivered. I don't have a clue how I'd get down to Shropshire to pick it up. No car, you see.

However, if someone can genuinely tell me that this is the deal of a lifetime and I'm a fool to miss it, I could probably figure something out.