150mm TAL Apolar in the pipeline ?

[John]

I came across a couple of intriguing photos on an Itallian astro forum (see below). I've seen pics a while back of a large prototype TAL refractor optical tube but I'd not realised that it might be an Apolar on steroids !

[Marki]

Wonder if its the same multi lens design as the 125 apolar that you reviewed? At f6 I'm guessing its designed for imaging? That was one of the supposed selling points for the 5". Even if its going to get a release in the Uk, I;m guessing it'll be expensive. Given the 125 apolar was c. £1500, maybe this will be c. £2k?

[nightfisher]

As a tal fan, i cant see it selling, not here in the uk, im not aware of any one buying the 125 version, but i hope to be proved wrong, just seems the 6 element system is to much of a worry regarding alignment, John thanks for snooping this out though

[AndyH]

Nice find John. Was it on 'Binomania.it' ?

Yeah, it's the same system/design as the 125 Apolar, but 'faster'. First pics I've seen of a real life one, rather than the prototype ones, at SibAstro(Russian Starparty).

For mere mortals, the price is beyond us/me. Has been on the Tal pricelist since January 2010 at around 135,000 roubles, so that's a base price of about £2700. I read that they had to use 'foreign' glass due to the cost of large Russian glass(so from that, I'd guess LZOS, coz that's where Tal get their blanks normally). This pushed the cost up, as this was queried at the time by forum members.

I'm hoping the 100 Apolar will see the light of day, but the designers say whilst all field testing has been done etc, it'll get no further without the NPZ 'high heid yins', green light. They are not expecting it for some time.

Last night I found a Russian forum which describes the tweeking of the 125 Apolar, which coresponds to the way described by those pdf's I posted some time back. ie: it involves star testing and adjusting the front singlet to suit.

A new right angle 50mm finder was meant to have been designed to go with this scope. Would like to see that.

Andy.

[AndyH]

Ahha.

Here's where the pics came from, on the Italian forum...............

http://astro-talks.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=893

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Tal 90 degree finder. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Want.

Andy.

[John]

The big question with TAL's is whether dealers in the UK are prepared to handle them. There have been two recent examples of the 125R where the scopes have needed quite a lot of optical tuning post-delivery to get a decent performance from them and that's just an uncomplicated achromatic doublet design. The 6 element Apolar design has more scope for optical issues in my opinion and thats not going encourage a dealer to get involved I'm afraid.

I didn't know about a 100mm Apolar and thats interesting but it's already a very crowded market.

I guess what is needed is for someone knowlegable about TAL scopes to set up a small operation here importing them, sorting them properly pre-sale and then adding a reasonable premium for that service.

[AndyH]

I guess what is needed is for someone knowlegable about TAL scopes to set up a small operation here importing them, sorting them properly pre-sale and then adding a reasonable premium for that service.

Exactly right. Even someone in europe. Easier said than done. I think it's even harder to import any Russian product now, than in the past(small bits are easy though). You would have thought the opposite. Anyone know a friendly(?!?!) Russian Oil Baron?

Unless I or other Tal fans win millions, it's never going to happen.

I'd just play with them. Stuff that selling nonsense.

Andy.

[nicnac]

The 150A is on the NPZ website, was pegged for production last year

[nicnac]

http://www.npzoptics.com/catalog/teleskopes/tal-150apo-catalog/

[E621Keith]

Just out of interest, what's the TAL apo like compare to the Chinese and the LZOS stuff?

[John]

Just out of interest, what's the TAL apo like compare to the Chinese and the LZOS stuff?

The 125 Apolar that I tried had excellent colour correction - I could see no colour at all on anything. So a little better for that than my ED120 which shows a faint haze of CA around the brightest stars. The star images in the TAL I had were not 100% tight though - slightly egg shaped airey disks at 200x or more. I think there was a little mis-collimation still in that system.

In reality though there are so few reviews around on the Apolar I'm not sure such comparisons can be made in any meaningful way.

[E621Keith]

The 125 Apolar that I tried had excellent colour correction - I could see no colour at all on anything. So a little better for that than my ED120 which shows a faint haze of CA around the brightest stars. The star images in the TAL I had were not 100% tight though - slightly egg shaped airey disks at 200x or more. I think there was a little mis-collimation still in that system.

In reality though there are so few reviews around on the Apolar I'm not sure such comparisons can be made in any meaningful way.

Thanks John. That's good to know. There is very little information about the Apolar on the web, it's good to hear some first hand experience.

[AndyH]

Very little can touch a high end LZOS lens, apart from the other big players, like Tak, AP, I'd say.

......................................

Whilst not regarding the 150 Apolar, here's a new 125 review ......... http://www.astrotest.it/telescopi/TalApolar120/Tal_Apolar_125.php

Patiently awaiting a review, again of the 125 Apolar, from a chap in Finland. A long time Talscopes Group member.

........................................

I read, a while back, Markus Ludes(APM) had good things to say about the views of the Apolar. Must admit to being pleasantly surprised by that. He's a super critical, Apo nut.

[AndyH]

Reading through lots of stuff, it seems it's that front singlet that's the most important thing to have adjusted correctly. Again as John has said, an experienced user would probably roll the sleeves up and dive in, but a dedicated dealer/importer is necessary.

Lets not forget........ this Tal, athough priced close to 5" triplet prices, here in the UK and europe, was never ever meant to rival a good triplet apo. A good doublet, I think yes. It was designed to be in the affordable apo niche in the homeland. It's cheaper than the Klevtsov 200K for example. But as it's priced (in the west) close to triplets, it's never going to rival them. Ever.

If a company could offer them in the £1200 max range, then that's more reasonable. But it'll probably never happen.

[AndyH]

I'm a Tal bampot and I wouldn't buy an Aoplar at the asking price. No way, too high.

It'd take a dedicated importer willing to deal with the complex Russian export system, being able to construct a price deal for quantity, to keep shipping costs down. Easier said than done.

[AndyH]

Jeez.

I do go on. Sorry folks

[Marki]

At the moment Tecnosky do them for 1650eu = £1325 (plus delivery - I;d pay more for a quality carrier, rather than the basic shipping option). - Getting closer to your £1200 mark, but still not close enough.

[Marki]

Jeez.

I do go on. Sorry folks

No worries Andy - all part of the frsutration and fun that being a TAL owner/fan is all about

[AndyH]

I'm a believer in, if you really, really, really want something then you can tend to pay a bit more than the standard rate. I've done it before. Nowt wrong with that. I think what would always be bugging me in the back of head is that the Apolar should be £100 cheaper than a new Klevtsov 200K, going by todays prices(as listed on their factory forum). I'm guessing that would bug the life out of me.

[AndyH]

Talking about bugging. I'll need to ask Jorma M, if he's got his review ready in english yet. Even if it's in Suomi, that'd do for now. He's had his Apolar quite a time now

[John]

Talking about bugging. I'll need to ask Jorma M, if he's got his review ready in english yet. Even if it's in Suomi, that'd do for now. He's had his Apolar quite a time now

I wonder how many have been sold, worldwide ?

You hear so little about the Apolars now you could be forgiven for thinking that it's just a handful at most.

[AndyH]

I wonder how many have been sold, worldwide ?

You hear so little about the Apolars now you could be forgiven for thinking that it's just a handful at most.

From what I can gather, triple figures. They've been getting manufactured since 2009. How many into the english speaking parts of the world? Unknown.

[nightfisher]

Very little can touch a high end LZOS lens, apart from the other big players, like Tak, AP, I'd say.

......................................

Whilst not regarding the 150 Apolar, here's a new 125 review ......... http://www.astrotest..._Apolar_125.php

Patiently awaiting a review, again of the 125 Apolar, from a chap in Finland. A long time Talscopes Group member.

........................................

I read, a while back, Markus Ludes(APM) had good things to say about the views of the Apolar. Must admit to being pleasantly surprised by that. He's a super critical, Apo nut.

Andy (mr tal) does this mean the Tal100 rs lens is from LZOS stock? or produced directly at the tal factory

[AndyH]

Not 100% sure, but I think so.

I don't think Tal 'pour' their own glass? Never ever heard of that. They DO grind/polish all their glass. They source the specific type of blanks and grind to suit. The 2 big Russian glass producers are LZOS and Lomo as far as I'm aware.