DBK 21AU618.AS OR IMG0H

[Ewan]

I am still looking for a CCD anyone shed any light on these two choices ?

IMG0H SONY EXview ICX618AL CCD sensor and a 14bit high speed AD converter. High QE (almost 70%) making it a sensitive planetary and guide camera. With it's inbuilt cooling, the IMG0H can also be used for deep sky imaging, especially for smaller objects like planetary nebula and smaller galaxies.'

Specs :- Sensor: SONY EXView CCD ICX618ALA

CCD size: Typical 1/4inch

Effective pixel: 640*480

Pixel size: 5.6um*5.6um

CCD readout type: Progressive scan

Peak QE: More than 68%

Anti-blooming: Yes,-110dB

56FPS @ 640*480 - 8bit: 30FPS @ 14bit

78FPS @ 500*300 - 8bit.

Readout: 24Mpixel/s（High), 12Mpixel/s（Low）

Readout noise: Typical 8e-

Back focus: 14 mm from C-Mount thread System gain: Adjustable

AD converter: 14bit

Cooling: Single stage

Max delta T: 30

Power consumption: Minimum (TEC OFF) 2 Watt

Maximum: (TEC ON) 10 Watt

Input voltage range: DC 12V (Input to DC201 adapter)

Safe Range: (11V-13.8V)

Telescope interface: C mount / 1.25" nosepiece

Computer interface: USB 2.0 High Speed

Camera size & weight: (w/o cable or DC201v) 70*70*25mm, 200g

Guide port: Standard: RJ12 6pin guide port

DBK 21AU618.AS Colour Info:-

Up to 60 FPS: With 60 FPS (frames per second), the DBK 21AU618.AS is the fastest within its category. It is ideally suited to color astrophotography, in which very fast image sequences should be captured

Color Interpolation: For visualization applications, it does not make sense to view the RAW image stream from the CCD chip. It must be interpolated, before it may be viewed or saved in common formats. IC Capture.AS perform color interpolation, thus reducing the load on the DBK 21AU618.AS's processor

Sony ICX618AQA 1/4 " CCD Chip: The DBK 21AU618.AS ships with the color Sony ICX618AQA progressive scan CCD chip. With its 1/4 " format, the CCD chip produces a resolution of 640 x 480 pixels. Even at very long exposure times - up to 60 minutes exposure are possible - noise is minimal

No Compression, No IR Cut Filter: The DBK 21AU618.AS does not compress the video stream it outputs - the video data that is captured by the CCD chip is outputted directly by the USB connector

High Speed Data Transfer Via USB: In order to transfer the vast amount of data created by the stream of uncompressed and lossless color images to the host PC, you need a very high speed bus. Hence, the DBK 21AU618.AS is fitted with a fast USB connector

Specs:- Video formats @ FPS 640 x 480, BY8 (RAW) @ 60, 30, 15, 7.5, 3.75 FPS

640 x 480, UYVY @ 30, 15, 7.5, 3.75 FPS Dynamic range 8 bit IR cut filter No Optical Interface Type Progressive scan Format 1/4 " Resolution H: 640 pixel, V: 480 pixel Lens mount C/CS mount Connector type USB Supply voltage 4.5 VDC to 5.5 VDC (via USB cable) Current consumption Approx. 500 mA at 5 VDC Shutter (exposure time) 1/10,000 second to 60 minutes Gain 0 dB to 36 dB Max. temperature (operation) -5 deg.C to 45 deg.C Max. temperature (storage) -20 deg.C to 60 deg.C Max. humidity (operation) 20 % to 80 % non-condensing Max. humidity (storage) 20 % to 95 % non-condensing Dimensions (H x W x L) 50.6mm x 50.6mm x 50mm (1.99" x1.99" x 1.96") Weight 265g (9.34 oz)

I prefer the DBK over the DFK because it does not have an IR filter but i can buy one & use it if required, The IMG0H has built in cooling so maybe 'hald decent' for DSO's maybe ?

Thank you for taking the time to read this long post but it's quite a bit of money & i want to make the best choice.

[Stargazer Jack]

I would also like some people's thoughts on this as well. From what I have read so far though, the 21AU618.AS is a better bet as the other has not got many users.

[Ewan]

I had a reply from Bern at Modern Astronomy regarding this & his opinion was this '

If you want to do deep sky imaging as well then the IMGOH is the better camera, it has cooling and greater bit depth.

I believe the IR block filter can be removed if you want.', i appreciate if using it for DSO's they will be limited & the smaller targets only, other than that though the cameras seem very close but the QHY is cooled as well so wouldn't this also 'help' planetarty imaging to an extent ?

[beamish]

I think you've pretty much nailed why one ought to go with the IS cam TBH- why would you want to spend cold hard cash on a DSO cam that offers such a small chip? The IMGOH doesn't in MHO offer the same level of support re users, and is a comprimise cam. You either want to go DSO or planetary. Planetary then go for the IS or Flea or whatever DSO then start looking at ATIK. Personally I've been put off from the QHY cams due to software issues in the past and so far I've not read anything to change my mind. Admittedly, the IMGOH can be run via Firecapture tho. The Flea offers 12bit(?) too tho this only really becomes warranted when seeing is XLNT so..... As has been said already , you don't need cooling for planetary.

You pays your money and makes your choice.

I jumped for the flea3 and lurve it

[Sammyb]

I don't believe there is a camera at the moment that adequately does both planetary and DSOs. You would probably be better of with an IS D*K and getting a second hand DSLR. I bought the ATik Titan as that was advertised as a camera that could do both planetary and DSOs it too had a small chip (640x480). Intiailly this wasn't a problem but I soon found it limiting in terms of the targets I could go for. Its also quite hard to locate the objects on such a small chip. I sold the camera to a chap who wanted to use it as a guide cam.

I personally think planetary and DSO imaging are very different techniques with different scopes and set-ups required. Its difficult (or expensive!) to try to do both well.

Just my thoughts

[x6gas]

I have both the mono and OSC versions of the IMG0H but I must confess that I have never tried DSO imaging with it; maybe I will at some point if the clouds ever clear. I suppose the point is you can use it to give DSO imaging a go, although it is not ideal because of the chip size, and in that respect it is more flexible than the IS cameras.

The IMG0H scores for me because it has an ST-4 port and I wanted to go down that route for guiding.

However, software support is poor at QHY have a reputation for not supporting developers too well and not exactly galloping forward with their own software. The control software that ships with the camera works but Firecapture makes it a planetary camera that is a pleasure to use.

I don't have an IS camera so can't compare, but I was impressed enough with the OSC version that I bought the mono later too.

[x6gas]

BTW, you can't currently get the read speeds on larger format chips to be a capable planetary cam, though I think in theory you could just use a "region of interest" (ROI) to get an effectively smaller pixel matrix...

But it's a bit like scopes, what's good for planetary isn't optimal for DSO...

[riklaunim]

Planetary - D*K21AU618 (DMK best) or PointGrey/IDS eventually Basler/Ximea cameras. DS imaging - typical DS camera with sane sensor matched to scope you want to use with.

[Ewan]

Cheers everyone, it has been informative to say the least.

Now i will be looking at the Point Grey CCD's, now i have to check my laptop but i think i will be needing an Express card, anyway i think ill read up on them over the weekend (work permitting), too many choices but i am not going to rush without doing some research first so i get the right one.

[riklaunim]

You can alway try a GigE Flea3 - which uses the Ethernet card and not Firewire 800

[beamish]

Rik beat me to it. Do not be tempted by USB3 ( different chip !) If I could have the choice over I'd plumb for GigE rather than FW800- for no other reason than it'd be easier than trying to sort out 1394B Ex Card and most lappies these days don't carry Ex Card slots anymore, but I was lucky with the Thinkpad

[Ewan]

Well after doing a little bit more reading i am swaying back to the IS CCD's, if i went with the (better) DMK 21AU618.AS Mono + filters can you do it without a filter wheel easily enough or is 'manually' swapping them over a lot of hassle & maybe losing focus or object in view ? sorry if it's a stupid question but i can see me fumbling around in near darkness changing filters getting frustrated.

I may settle with my other choice of the DBK 21AU618.AS over the DFK 21AU618.AS Colour purely because i will also have the IR option or is that not a benefit either ? i have a 1.25" IR filter already (came with 2nd hand Toucam Pro II) but it may not be the best, can anyone reccomend a good IR filter for me ? I assume i cannot use or need anuy other filters either as it would be a OSC ccd ?

I also want to do Solar imaging if possible with this setup, i was looking at the AstroZap Baader Solar Filter for £50.00 but what else would i need & would the OSC ccd be any good for Solar imaging anyway ?

I cannot thank you guys enough for the help so far i am really struggling to make my mind up but almost there i think

[Stargazer Jack]

I can't answer the other question but if I was you then I would get an A4 sheet of solar film for around £15. A lot cheaper and easy to make if you follow a guide on SGL. Also, you can replace the filter easily by making a new one but if the £50 one gets damaged then I believe it is the end of that. HTH

[Sammyb]

I have the DFK and have done a very small amount of solar imaging. I would agree with the above and just get the A4 Baader solar paper and do a little DIY job to make a filter for your scope. I made a reduced aperture one out of plywood and card and gaffer tape.

The OSC is fine for white light imaging using the solar film (you can image granulation and sunspots etc) but is no good for narrowband solar work ie using a PST (you need a mono camera for that).

[Photosbykev]

OSC is ok for solar white light work but the mono DMK is much better IMO. The Red channel contains most of the detail and a mono DMK will not suffer from the noise that the green and blue channels contain. If you do get into solar ha work then mono is definitely the way to go

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