Help with a present needed!...please

[Weaholt]

Hi

Ive spent what seems hours and hours searching this really helpful site for hints and tips for a present I am intending to buy for my husband, but I'm really struggling!

He has been interested in astronomy for quite a number of years and he is also into photography. He spends quite a lot of time outside on clear nights with is camera. About 14 years ago I bought him a Celestron 4-1/2" (114mm) Newtonian telescope-910mm (had to check the telescope for info - I really don't havea clue!) and I want to get him a new scope which in the future would be good for astrophotography.

From what I've read the mount is the most important thing when thinking about astrophotography, is it an EQ5 mount that would be required? Anyway, I doubt I will be able to afford both the mount and a new telescope, so I have decided on the new scope and then he can save for a mount suitable for photography at a later date.

I want something better than the telescope that he has at the moment, I am assuming that this won't be difficult since it was bought so long ago! But I'm really stuck with which scope to buy! I'm hoping to keep the cost to around £250, but may be able to go a bit higher.

I have read good things about the Skywatcher skyliner 200p dobsonian, is this an option for astrophotography with a suitable mount? Any suggestions would be greatly received, not having any experience or understanding of it all, I find all the info mind boggling!

Thanks x

[Capricorn]

The dobsonian is not suited to astrophotography, even if he removed the scope from the mount you would need a substantial EQ mount to use it for astrophotography.

Cannot really suggest anything that would make sense.

By this I mean that if later he bought an EQ5 with motors then a small starting system would be something like a William Optics 72mm on the EQ5 with a set of dual motors and a DSLR.

You cannot get the WO 72's but they make a newer 70mm scope that is similar enough, just about £100 over the budget you give.

My thoughts being you get the WO70, he adds an EQ5 with motors later then attacheds the DSLR.

Before you get into this are you sure he wants to get into astrophotography?

[Qualia]

Before you get into this are you sure he wants to get into astrophotography?

Ay, double check on this one. I'm not an imager - don't take photos - but I do understand that a dob is a mighty fine instrument for visual work but a no go in astrophotography. Usually, from what I've seen on the forum, if folk are starting out in astrophotography, a small aperture refractor is most often recommended.

[Weaholt]

Thanks for the response, yes I'm pretty sure that he would like to get into astrophotography. I don't want to ask him straight out because I'm trying to surprise him

Is the current telescope one of the really basic ones?

Thanks

x

[VigdisVZ]

Hi there and welcome

Dobsonian is the mount and the only decent pictures he could take with that is the moon since it doesnt require the tracking that the motorized EQ mounts can do , but he could easily fit the tube on top of another mount later if he wanted that.

So in this case the Dobsonian is a very nice gift, but wont count for much when it comes to photography. It will bring you both much joy visually observing stuff though.

However, let me throw you a curve ball:

Why not a gift certificate to him from you? It might be a bit boring compared to shocking him with a brand new scope, but in this case he could add his own budget and research for his dream setup. Just the fact that your're encouraging his hobby that way will most likely mean a great deal to him.

I hope I didn't make things worse for you with this. Any further questions, just ask away.

[Weaholt]

Ay, double check on this one. I'm not an imager - don't take photos - but I do understand that a dob is a mighty fine instrument for visual work but a no go in astrophotography. Usually, from what I've seen on the forum, if folk are starting out in astrophotography, a small aperture refractor is most often recommended.

Perhaps I should try and be a bit clever and try and find out with a bit of fishing! I am fairly sure that he would really like to get into in though. From,reading other discussions on this forum, I have read several times that it's a good idea to get a visual scope and use that for a while before launching into astrophotography. Is this what you would recommend?

[VigdisVZ]

Is the current telescope one of the really basic ones?

No. If it's in prime condition its could most likely take nice pictures (not entirely sure of the model and specifications), but 910mm focal length is not bad for larger photogenic DSO's. However he would need to put it on a mount. I actually just ordered a 150mm aperture/750mm focal length scope for the purpose of photography.

If you gave him a bump towards an EQ mount, he could fit his old scope for a while and upgrade that later if he gets properly hooked with astrophotography.

[Weaholt]

Hi there and welcome

Dobsonian is the mount and the only decent pictures he could take with that is the moon since it doesnt require the tracking that the motorized EQ mounts can do , but he could easily fit the tube on top of another mount later if he wanted that.

So in this case the Dobsonian is a very nice gift, but wont count for much when it comes to photography. It will bring you both much joy visually observing stuff though.

However, let me throw you a curve ball:

Why not a gift certificate to him from you? It might be a bit boring compared to shocking him with a brand new scope, but in this case he could add his own budget and research for his dream setup. Just the fact that your're encouraging his hobby that way will most likely mean a great deal to him.

I hope I didn't make things worse for you with this. Any further questions, just ask away.

Hmmmmmmm, that's an option I hadn't thought of. I did like the idea of surprising him, but it may be more sensible to consider a gift certificate.

Thamks for the info on the mounts and dobsonian. I will probably be back with more dumb questions!

x

[Weaholt]

No. If it's in prime condition its could most likely take nice pictures (not entirely sure of the model and specifications), but 910mm focal length is not bad for larger photogenic DSO's. However he would need to put it on a mount. I actually just ordered a 150mm aperture/750mm focal length scope for the purpose of photography.

If you gave him a bump towards an EQ mount, he could fit his old scope for a while and upgrade that later if he gets properly hooked with astrophotography.

Ah, so I may be planning this the wrong way round. He has a mount with his old scope but I think it's a pretty cheap one. Which mount would be suitable for photography?

Thanks again for your help

[Velvet]

I had a 200 telescope on an eq5 mount, very nice set up for visual but EQ5 mount a bit short on load capacity for Astrophotography and I had to buy an NEQ6.

If it is just visual to start with the 200 on an EQ5 mount is good. I have achieved very good images by taking off the scope from the mount and just putting DSLR (modded for astro) straight onto the mount with a 200mm lens. This was then used to take lots of images (over 200) and stacking them in DeepS ky Stacker and processing in Photoshop to produce a nice image of M31.

This may be a halfway house for the short term. But ,long term AP i think the mount would need to be upgraded to use the telescope for Astrophotography.

I am sure others can advise, but as I have only just started I thought my experiences may help

Velvet

[rowan46]

Is he a keen photographer? in other words nice camera and lenses good tripod etc this may be a little left field but how about this mount

http://www.firstligh...-tt320x-ag.html

No telescope needed just a good camera, lens and tripod he could at a later stage get a small apo to put on it.

[VigdisVZ]

Ah, so I may be planning this the wrong way round. He has a mount with his old scope but I think it's a pretty cheap one. Which mount would be suitable for photography?

There are no easy answers here I'm afraid. The cheapest mount I would recommend is this: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq5-pro-synscan-goto.html. If he's careful and precise with aligning it towards the north pole (this is the most important thing, I cannot stress how important careful setup is with photography) it can take atleast a minute long exposure with the camera. It will most probably last him a very very long time, and if you slowly add more stuff like camera guiding and laptops and whatnot it could be the centerpiece of a very advanced setup that could take lots of very long exposure photographs, depending on how far he wants to take it.

However, if he gets really starstruck (lame pun) he might find it a bit weak for bigger instruments (like the 200 Velvet mentioned), so this one would be smarter to get if you suspect a grave obsession building in him http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-neq6-pro-synscan.html.

But if you're on a limited budget, the EQ5 is a very capable mount still if you keep to modest sized instruments. Luckily, size doesnt always mean quality when it comes to photography.

[Marki]

If your husband went down the EQ5 route for visual now, he could always add tracking capability later (either single or dual motors, or even a full synscan "go-to" system) when funds allow... .

[Qualia]

I have read several times that it's a good idea to get a visual scope and use that for a while before launching into astrophotography. Is this what you (qualia) would recommend?

From what I've read on astrophotography, it appears that a decent yet standard and cheap beginner set up usually requires an HEQ5 mount, an ED80 telescope and camara gear. Brand new I have no idea what the camara gear is going to cost, but just that mount and telescope won't see much change from a grand.

Yeah, you can go secondhand, but then I'd feel it a lot safer to have someone selling the gear near where you live, so someone else who you know - who inturn knows their stuff - can do you the favour of checking over the gear. A scenario which I imagine has pretty good odds against you.

Again, even if everything worked out well, for purely visual use, the ED80 - although a lovely scope - probably doesn't have enough aperture to keep one pleased for a long time. And so it seems, from this - my own outside persepective - there really does seem to be a dichotomy - no doubt false - between visual and photo astronomy.

Another factor to bear in mind is that the astrophotographers seem to know their gear really well. For example, they can take mutiple shots - some running into the hundreds - and have spent hours learning software to be able to manipulate, process and stack those images to produce a lovely photo. They also seem to be the type who know their skies well and know how to locate what they're looking for.

It is from this insight that has lead me to believe that astrophotogrpahy is something that these people have grown into and probably stemming from their visual work. I don't know if that is true, it's just a suspicion of mine. What a lot of them say, however, is that the book Making every Photon Count should be read before a single penny is spent on this rather expensive and exotic hobby.

Perhaps, then, and this really would be my recommendation for an absolute non-astrophotographer-that-I-am, by way of the care and concern you have shown for your husband in this thread, rather than spending your hard earnt cash straight away, buy him this book for his birthday with a little message inside saying that you'll help fund his voyage to the stars after he's informed himself a little.

Hope that helps.

[JamesM]

Agree with the above suggestion regarding Steve Richards' book "Making Every Photon Count" (FLO £19.95) which you can read about here.

Now I do believe there is a way forward that has been hinted at in the above comments. I would suggest going for the Skywatcher 200P dobsonian, it's the U.K's best selling scope and for good reason be it aperture, easy of use and set up, and due to its popularity a good resale value should hubby wish to upgrade at a later point. To answer the imaging question, well he could of course limit his imaging ambitions to just solar system targets (planets & moon) via using a simple webcam. These objects are a lot brighter than deep sky objects (DSO's) such as galaxies and nebulae and by using a webcam, he will be able to collect a vast number of frames very quickly thus avoiding the need for accurate tracking via an expensive mount. He then sifts through the best 'frames' and stacks the better ones on top of each other using a free piece of software called 'Registax' to then construct a final composite image showing plenty of detail. In addition to this free program, there are many others such 'sharpcap', 'Wx Astro capture' and 'Cratlets' to list a few that will certainly help introduce hubby to the other half of imaging which is called data processing, as capturing data with the scope and mount is really only half the story.

The above suggestion would allow you to hand over a great present, would provide him with a great scope to observe with whilst introducing him very slowly to the fun/frustrations of astrophotography or the 'dark art' as we sometimes call it. Certainly getting the above book would be a great introduction to imaging and will help him in the longer term decide on how deep he would like to go.

Clear skies

James

[Weaholt]

Thank you everyone for all of your suggestions and advice, I really appreciate it. It is definitely a much more expensive hobby than I had originally thought

I will definitely buy the book recommended above, I have seen a lot of recommendations for it. I will keep reading through the advice given above and try to come to a decision. I will report back - thanks again

Xx

[Weaholt]

I'm back again - so soon!

Just having another look at the dobsonian 200p - noticed that they come in different sizes, some 6", some 8" and then 10". What's the difference?

x

[VigdisVZ]

Welcome back!

With a Dobsonian, that is mainly for visual observing you'll basicly want as large as you can handle. Larger mirror/aperture, the better and brighter the objects in the sky will look. You still need to keep in mind its transportability, if you have to go by car for instance to get to a good spot and your Dob doesn't fit in your car, youve painted yourself into a corner

One other idea to keep in mind if you want to hoist it onto a mount at some point it shouldn't be more than the mount can handle. However since I am pretty inexperiened myself you might want to check with a veteran if its recommended to put it on an EQ mount or if it might be better to get another telescope alltogether for mounting.

[PeterE]

Hello everyone, I hope this thread isn't too cold!

I am the 'hubby' concerned and am now a very, very proud owner of a Skywatcher 200P (8") dobsonian 'scope. Thanks for the great feeback you provided to my very generous wife.

To complete the story here I am more then happy to start off with the visual observing with the scope but I really, really do want to get into imaging at some point. Photography is a long-term passion of mine and, as she said, I have recently turned Canon DSLR and 300mm IS lens to the skies. I have images of the moon in all its phases that I am very happy with and some super wide-angle (12mm focal length) general sky shots but nothing more beyond that. I am very interested in the use of a webcam and image stacking so will look for more information there . Expect more questions.

Thanks to you all for helping me get a wonderful Christmas present.

Pete.

[ronin]

Sorry, but a dobsonian is a visual scope, imaging of just about any sort is out of the range of what it can do.

Ideally you would have an Equitorial mount witth at least dual motors to drive it. This would enable a webcam or DSLR to be attached and the DSLR would take "long" exposure images, say 20 seconds. The webcam takes a movie anf the frames are stacked.

You could use a webcam on an driven Alt/Az mount for planetary imaging only.

Future option could be to take the tube off the dobsonian, add tube rings and dovetail and buy a good EQ mount.

The first reply states this to the originat post.

[rowan46]

Hello everyone, I hope this thread isn't too cold!

I am the 'hubby' concerned and am now a very, very proud owner of a Skywatcher 200P (8") dobsonian 'scope. Thanks for the great feeback you provided to my very generous wife.

To complete the story here I am more then happy to start off with the visual observing with the scope but I really, really do want to get into imaging at some point. Photography is a long-term passion of mine and, as she said, I have recently turned Canon DSLR and 300mm IS lens to the skies. I have images of the moon in all its phases that I am very happy with and some super wide-angle (12mm focal length) general sky shots but nothing more beyond that. I am very interested in the use of a webcam and image stacking so will look for more information there . Expect more questions.

Thanks to you all for helping me get a wonderful Christmas present.

Pete.

welcome to sgl

[bingevader]

Welcome.

Post some pics!

You've probably already found the Imaging section on this site, loads of helpful info there.

Cheers