Galaxies using 130p scope ?

[Charlie_132]

during the next few days im going to be doing quite alot of stargazing after midnight (when street lights are turnt off)

will i be able to make out any detail/shape of the galaxies im looking at ?

im going to search for m57, and quite like the whirlpool galaxies ... will i be wasting my time ?

[LukeSkywatcher]

Hi Charlie

You will certainly be able to see galaxies with a 130P scope. I have a similar size scope and i have seen quite a few galaxies with it. M57 will be very small in the scope but you will have no problem knowing exactly what you are looking at. I have also seen the Black Eye galaxy and that was also very obvious as to what it was. Hopefully your skies will be pretty dark with the lights turned off. This will help greatly.

Hope you find what you are looking for

Paul

[John]

You will be able to see some of the brighter galaxies such as M31, M81, M82, M51 etc but they will generally look like smudges of light. To see spiral structure etc you need a larger aperture scope. I can just make out the spiral structure of M51 with my 250mm newtonian under really dark skies. I can't do that from my back garden, though I can see the galaxy, because I have a little light pollution here.

Galaxies are best viewed under as dark skies as possible, ie: no moon in the sky and as little artificial light pollution as possible.

[DirkSteele]

M57 will show the smoke ring structure, especially under good skies. It is pretty easy for me even with a 4" scope from central London under our rather light polluted night skies. As for the galaxies, don't expect too much. You will struggle to make out much detail and structure in most galaxies with a scope of that size. You should not deem it a waste of time though, half the enjoyment is just locating them and marvelling at what you are seeing and how far that light has travelled to reach your retina. That is not to say you will not see anything, but not don't expect to see a glorious spiral structure in M51 for example.

[John]

Just for clarity, M57 is a planetary nebula rather than a galaxy. You probably knew that though

[cotterless45]

Best time for galaxies is winter with Leo and the spring Virgo, later the Ursa Major, Coma Bernices and Canes Venatici . In the meantime there's a host of lovely open and globular clusters around.

Nick.

[Charlie_132]

thanks for the replies, will the brighter galaxies just be like stars but a little more faded/blured ?

will i be able to make out the colours on m57 ?

[LukeSkywatcher]

Just for clarity, M57 is a planetary nebula rather than a galaxy. You probably knew that though

Course it is. Sorry if i implied that it was a galaxy.

[DirkSteele]

Definitely no colour on M57 as it is just not bright enough to activate the colour sensing cones in the retina. Almost all astronomical objects are greyish in colour at the eyepiece.

[DirkSteele]

Thinking about your questions a bit more, it has made me wonder if you might find a book like "Turn left at Orion" very useful. I have not read it myself but I have noted many SGL members extolling its virtues around descriptions of what you can actually expect to see at the eyepiece. In astronomy, expectations management is one of the most important things to get right. So many scopes are collecting dust in lofts and cupboards because expectations were for "Hubble type" views rather than the reality of grey smudges and using averted vision to pull out just a bit more detail.

Might be worth checking out.

[John]

Course it is. Sorry if i implied that it was a galaxy.

You didn't Paul - it was the only messier object mentioned in the same sentence as whirlpool galaxies by the OP so I wondered if there was any confusion there

[Moonshane]

you might see this sort of thing if you are well dark adapted. the core will be less bright. note that there's M31 (main galaxy) and M32 (the faint fuzz above right) and noticing this sort of thing is what galaxy observing is about. it's rarely a jawdropping experience like some targets but challenging and exciting when you think about the implications of what you are seeing.

[Double Kick Drum]

during the next few days im going to be doing quite alot of stargazing after midnight (when street lights are turnt off)

will i be able to make out any detail/shape of the galaxies im looking at ?

im going to search for m57, and quite like the whirlpool galaxies ... will i be wasting my time ?

I have a 127mm refractor, which gathers very slightly more light than a 130p. You should get similar results subject to the quality of your sky.

Some brighter galaxies give less shape away than feinter ones. Detail is much harder to tease out without inky black sky. Here's a few recommendations for interesting shape / minor detail / combos;

M51 (and NGC 5195) - The Whirlpool galaxy in Ursa Major. I've only ever managed the two cores and a hint of mottling. In really good sky, it may be possible to a little more but clear spirals are out of the question.

NGC 4631 - The Whale galaxy in Canes Venatici. Tolerant of some light pollution, this one is elongated and slightly lop sided in my opinion.

M104 - The Sombrero galaxy in Virgo. Bright and unmistakable. Dust lane should be within your grasp.

M81 / M82 - Bode's / Cigar galaxy in Ursa Major. M81 has a bright core and M82 is side on and has some contrast. A nice pair.

M64 - The Black Eye galaxy in Coma Berenices. Lots of texture in this bright galaxy.

NGC 4565 - The Needle galaxy in Coma Berenices. Another side on galaxy, not as bright as the ones above but still well worth a look.

M84 / M86 / NGC 4435 / NGC 4438 - Combo of galaxies in Mankarian's chain in Virgo. One eyepiece-full and not to be missed.

M65 / M66 / NGC 3628 - The Leo Triplet. The two messiers are bright and elliptical, the other very elongated but much feinter.

There are many many more you are capable of finding but these will mostly be simple smudges.

Sadly, you will have to wait until mid to late winter for most of these unless you get up very early in the morning. The Sombrero and Mankarian's chain are best in late winter / early spring.

Happy hunting!

[Charlie_132]

thanks for all the replies, really helpful, in the turn left at orion book, does it have a lot of pictures and breif explinations of what it is ?

my main night is going to be tomorrow from about midnight, i aim on finding most galaxies (mainly using my scope and a app on my android phone)

would i see the circle ish shape around the galaxies for m31 ?

Double Kick Drum - thanks for that list, i ll give most of them a go tomorrow night

[Moonshane]

be aware that using any device with a backlit screen will destroy your night vision every time you look at it and will minimise your chances of seeing anything faint. a very dim red torch and star map (maybe free off the internet) is best in my experience.

with galaxies you often see a brighter core and then a varying amount of diffuse fuzz around them depending on conditions, sky darkness and aperture.

[Double Kick Drum]

M31 should appear as a bright core with oval surrounding haze. It's very large too. You should also be able to see M32, a smaller elliptical galaxy. If your sky is dark enough, you could get M110 too. It is slightly further away but a wider angle eyepiece might just get all three in.

M81 and M82 are possible but are comparatively low in the Northern sky at the moment and not at their best.

M33 in Triangulum rises during the evening and might be worth a try. It is large but quite feint and is likely to need averted vision to see. Sadly this time of year is not so good for galaxies. Globular clusters and open clusters are more prominent in September.

You may want to try a few planetary nebulae. M27, the Dumbbell is arguably the easiest. M57, the Ring is nice but will need a little more magnification. Perhaps you could try NGC 7009, the Saturn nebula too, though this will take some finding.

The book 'Turn Left at Orion' is a very good recommendation. It will help with expectation of what you can see at the eyepiece.

Good luck!

[Charlie_132]

are planets shown up atall on star charts ?

(they are the round cardboard things arent they ?)

so m31 will be the best galaxy for me to look for where i will see the bright centre and the haze around it ?

also what eyepiece would be best to use ?

would a 25mm and 2x barlow be too strong ?

[Moonshane]

always initially use lowest power for galaxies. when located you might get away with a little more but your 25mm will probably give the best view.

for planets, this is a good site http://www.nakedeyeplanets.com/neptune.htm and you can get most of the brighter Messier objects here http://www.astro-tom.com/messier/messier_finder_charts/messier_maps.htm

[Double Kick Drum]

I would go with the 25mm unbarlowed. M31 doesn't really need magnification. If you could make all of it out, it would be three times the width of the Moon. Sadly the spirals need very very dark skies and maybe a touch more aperture.

I assume these are your first deep sky object attempts, yes? In which case some the items of my first post may be a bit ambitious (Mankarian's chain in particular).

With such objects, magnification is less important than with planets which are bright and can take much more. Most DSOs look fuzzy, hazy or like very small dirty marks. Only very few have subtle colour. Most will appear grey.

That said, what you are looking at is a phenomenal distance away and can be truly mind blowing.

Don't be put off if you can't find things immediately. It takes practice.... and good maps (or GOTO technology).

Happy hunting!

[LukeSkywatcher]

are planets shown up atall on star charts ?

(they are the round cardboard things arent they ?)

so m31 will be the best galaxy for me to look for where i will see the bright centre and the haze around it ?

also what eyepiece would be best to use ?

would a 25mm and 2x barlow be too strong ?

The round cardboard things are called planispheres. Very useful for beginners.

M31 is just about the most well know galaxy and actually about the easiest to find. Once you find it, you will never have to search for it again because you can just automatically zoom in on it. I can see it from my back garden. Its so huge that you really cant see all of it without really working on it and with LARGE aperture.

In a 130mm scope it is never going to be anything but a grey smudge that looks a bit like a cigar or bullet with a bright core.

In a 130mm scope, i would use a 32mm or 25mm EP to observe it. For hunting galaxies, you really dont need high magnification. They show up better with low magnification. When you find them then you can zoom in.

M31 really is that big that it doesnt need anything more then 25-32mm EP.

[Charlie_132]

thanks for all these websites and info, really helpful, should i expect to be as amazed as i was when i first saw detail on jupiter/rings of saturn when i do come across a galaxy im looking for ?

also this is completely off topic, but i currently own a 130p dob scope .. do they sell a 200p score or 250p which is the same size as my one or are they all very big and heavy ?

[Moonshane]

it depends on you really. I found it incredible that I was looking at something as it was 2.5 million years ago and that it's a massive cloud of stars, too distant to resolve. it's also heading our way and will collide with the Milky Way in billions of years. there must surely be 'people' there looking at our beautiful galaxy and assuring new astronomers that there are 'people' in that lovely cloud of stars that looks as it did 2.5 million years ago.......sorry I turned into Brian Cox for a minute then....visually no competition with Jupiter / Saturn but mentally.........

[LukeSkywatcher]

it depends on you really. I found it incredible that I was looking at something as it was 2.5 million years ago and that it's a massive cloud of stars, too distant to resolve.

That is exactly the attitude i observe galaxies with. They appear to my eye as grey smudges for the most part and my brain fills in the blanks because i have seen images online.

What amazes me is the sheer distance that the light from these galaxies has traveled to reach my eyes.

It really is looking back in time.

[Charlie_132]

haha that sounds perfectly normal, i always have strange thoughts like that even when im looking at a planet ... just think to myself someone could be sitting on that planet somewhere looking back at me ....

ive just been looking at this -

http://www.astronomycentre.co.uk/Celestron_Catadioptric_Telescope_NexStar_5_SE_p/c11036.htm

would i be able to buy the orange part and attach it to my dob white piece (im sure youve seen the 130p dob)

how much different is stargazing through a 200p or 250 scope galaxy, planet and just general browsing wise ?

[Double Kick Drum]

I would suggest a little time with your 130mm to understand what you prefer looking at. If you find that galaxies are a bit dull and you like planets, you may find you want a different scope altogether. Planets need more magnification, clusters and galaxies need light gathering aperture.

That said, dobsonians give the best light gathering bang for your buck.

Personally speaking as a galaxy junkie, my next move will be a 250mm dob!