First light: C11 Edge HD meets NEQ6 pro (and me)

[Dunkster]

Who doesn't want more aperture in Astronomy? Well, having caught a bout of "the fever", I had convinced myself that it would be a worthy investment but I was unsure which upgrade would be best for me. I began following a few (really helpful) threads about larger aperture scopes, both from Dobsville and Catsville, and decided that to aim for 10 and 12 inches as a good balance between seeing more detail and being limited by the LP here.

But which scope makes most sense? I'm still not sure, but I knew I would need it to be relatively portable for several reasons. Firstly, I must carry my scope about 40ft from storage through a narrow path and gate to get to my viewing spot. Secondly, I want to be able to load it into the car readily enough to escape the dreaded LP. Sadly, these first two are further dictated by my lack of the world's strongest back. On top of that, I wanted a goto, which seems to add a couple of kgs whichever way you look at it.

Anyhow, only being interested in visual for starters, I'd managed to get my list down to…

• SW 250px goto
  
• SW 300p goto
  
• CPC1100/925
  

And then while travelling I made a visit to a public outreach event where I was (very kindly) shown C11 Edge HD+CGEM+Ethos… can anyone say lethal combination? To make matters worse, while checking out these beasts online I noticed the promotion on the C11, and the rest is, as they say, history. Convinced I'd got myself a bargain on the inevitable (LOL), I figured with the light nights it would just sit around in storage until later in the summer and give me some time to suss out a mount. Patience patience. Enough of the torture! The NEQ6 arrived last week

This is supposed to be an equipment review, so I'd better get started. I should point out that I only got my first adulthood scope last year, so this is not going to be highly technical, or probably all that useful

Celestron C11 Edge HD OTA

The C11 came well packaged in a box that at first took me by surprise! However, once unpacked the OTA surprised me with how light it was considering the physical size. Also in the box is a 10x50 finder scope, a 2 inch diagonal and an Axiom LX 23mm eyepiece. The OTA itself is a handsome looking piece of kit that feels well built. I'm sure you've all seen then before so I won't fill-up on pics, but in daylight the paint finish is not a flat cream but more sparkly in finish like the more recent orange SCTs - my (now) grab and go is a Nexstar 6SE which looks great in Celestron orange. The dovetail of the C11 is tastefully finished in a matt version of the orange.

Out of the box the C11 has a 3.25 inch to 2 inch visual back, ready to accept a 2 inch SCT threaded diagonal. On the face of it, this seems OK, but on further investigation the actual aperture out of the vb is only 37mm In addition, the diagonal supplied also looks OK, but the feel of the metal casing doesn't exude quality. For now at least, I think I'll be using my GSO diagonal that I bought for the 6SE.

Skywatcher NEQ6 pro

In my ideal (visual) world, I probably would have bought one of the Celestron CPC models (probably the 1100!), but was put off by the 31kg weight of the fork+OTA. Likewise, the matching CGEM is no lightweight and that may or may not be for good reason, but after a bit of reading around I figured I could shave a few kgs off by going for a NEQ6, or a few more if I went for the iOptron iEQ45 (whose handling of one of these is still up for debate!). In the end, the NEQ6 was a sensible choice in saving me around £300 compared with the CGEM, but also available almost immediately

Like the C11, the NEQ6 was well packaged with parts separated across two boxes. The tripod has 2 inch diameter steel legs with sturdy feeling locks at the ends. The mount/head is the heavy part of this combination, but is not particularly difficult to home onto the tripod. Both components feel solidly built, certainly on the functional side, and while gloss white wouldn't be my first choice of paint, I'm less bothered by how smart it doesn't look (compared to the CGEM) and more interested in how well it works in its element… the dark.

Setup and getting started

Was I prepared for a GEM after my little alt-az scopes? To be honest, I wasn't completely convinced. The C11 OTA alone is about the same weight as my 6SE full assembled, but the NEQ6 is another leap up. For now I'll be moving the tripod and mount in separate trips. And another one for the counterweights, and another for the OTA itself! So bearing in mind this was my first time, arguably with a scope bigger than I knew how to handle, I hope some of you get some laughs

I had practiced building the mount and balancing the scope indoors before the clouds parted on Friday night, and at 10pm I started carrying parts to my viewing spot. In hindsight I realised I had left it too late before getting started, but after levelling the tripod on the uneven ground, roughly aligning the mount so I could see (what I believe was) Polaris in the circle of the polar scope and balancing the OTA, it was almost 11pm.

On the subject of balancing, it required both counterweights pushed almost to the end of the bar (including extension bar), albeit with some travel remaining above the counterweight bar lock on the mount, and I found getting the scope balanced much more tricky than when I'd practiced, like wrestling a bear … tips for getting the OTA secured on the puck and in the place I want it without losing more hair gratefully received!

I'm still a little confused about what I'm supposed to do with the polar scope to get Polaris in the little circle on the edge of the bigger circle, but that's a challenge for another day… Friday night I was determined to get first light.....And first light I did get. After I'd fumbled with the alignment of the finder scope, yet another operation more tricky to accomplish in the dark! More than once during the session I needed to re-align the two, as I had managed to nudge the finder scope out of alignment with my head when aiming for the eyepiece.

The Axiom LX 23mm eyepiece included with the OTA is extraordinarily large, at least from my limited experience, the combination of the EP and the diagonal I'd estimate tipping the scales at over 1kg. In use, I struggled to get comfortable with the Axiom and almost constant blackouts due to my inability to find the sweet spot easily, so I swapped it out for my Nagler 20T5 (originally bought for the 6SE!) which I found much more user friendly. On reading around, the Axiom is regarded as not a bad EP, so I will have to give it another go at some point.

Once I was able to comfortably see objects through the eyepiece, I entered the pertinent information into the Synscan handset and selected a 1-star alignment using Vega. Given my rough polar alignment I wasn't expecting perfect accuracy, and I did need to re-align on adjacent bright stars a couple of times through the session, in an effort to maintain near-enough gotos. Next time around, I'll attempt a 2-star or 3-star alignment and then I'll see how much the alignment calculations can compensate for my rough polar alignment. Having used the Nexstar series, using the handset isn't unfamiliar territory apart from a few of the buttons being assigned to different functions and having to pay a bit more attention to the menus. Overall, it's easy enough to just get started and see something, which was my only goal that night!

I've posted my targets - successes and failures - here , so below are a few observations about the equipment as setup….

• Finder scope - not ideally positioned or just a little too proud of the end of mirror-end of the scope to be avoided, although I will have to learn! Maybe I should to do some further research into alternatives.
  
• Focussing - this is a bit stiff and mirror shift seems apparent when switching directions (although it seems to shift more or less back to where you started when going back again). I'll have to run the focusser up and down the track a couple of times and see if that spreads the grease a little more evenly and see if it smooths it out.
  
• Contorting - a couple of times the mount seemed to avoid taking the easy route to what I thought would be a pretty short slew, and ended up with the finder scope on the underside and the diagonal pointing down. I declined its offer of sliding along the ground and selected my next target instead.
  
• Overall views - first impressions were very impressive, this is a lot more light than I get with the 6SE. Equipped with the Nagler, I found the view especially pleasing on the globs, being able to discern a great deal of detail that was obviously lacking from the 6SE in LP-land. On Saturn, I found I could use moons out towards the edge of field as focussing points rather than the planet itself (with the Nagler and ES82 14mm), as I found focussing using the bright(er, than 6SE) planet difficult with the stiff focusser.
  

The story this far...

I'll try to add more to this as I go along, but I'm really looking forward to the next fine weather opportunity - but naturally in the meantime I will have more reading and question asking to do about potential upgrades to improve the experience further. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for the arrival of the Meade LX80 and Skywatcher AZ6 mounts to see if I slash my setup time, but maybe that'll happen anyway with experience. In the meantime, the plastic can breathe a sigh of relief

Shopping list items already in mind include:

• Baader Clicklock 3.25 visual back
  
• Decent 2 inch diagonal
  
• A nice wide EP
  
• SW AZ6 / Meade LX80 ?
  

[laser_jock99]

Sounds good so far. Getting used to new kit takes a few sessions (especially mounts) but the EQ6 should be just about up to the job of a C11 (I'm interested as there might be a C11/9.5 on my shopping list...). Once you master the polar alignment and 3-star alignment proceedures finding objects should be a breeze.

[M4lcs67]

A very thorough review, Dunk. As you said, your set-up time will come down the more you do it. It also helps that you have got a great rig to work with. Excellent stuff so far though......

[Dunkster]

Yeah, after first light I'm really psyched about getting more time with it and nailing my process. I know it took a few goes with the nexstars before I streamlined it, but they're pretty much grab and go with their size and weight

The NEQ6 is rated at 18kg capacity, and the OTA is 13kg before any additions, so should be OK for visual.

[ollypenrice]

The NEQ6 will be absolutely fine for visual. I have a Meade 10 inch, which has a similar FL and is heavier, and it's a stable setup. (For imaging at these FLs it's accuracy, not weight, that matters.) As you say, the C11 is remarkably light. So a nice widefield EP and away you go! Have fun...

Olly

[Dunkster]

Ah yes, I've started saving my pennies for upgrades already... 31mm Nagler, anyone?

[maser]

Who doesn't want more aperture in Astronomy? Well, having caught a bout of "the fever", I had convinced myself that it would be a worthy investment but I was unsure which upgrade would be best for me. I began following a few (really helpful) threads about larger aperture scopes, both from Dobsville and Catsville, and decided that to aim for 10 and 12 inches as a good balance between seeing more detail and being limited by the LP here.

But which scope makes most sense? I'm still not sure, but I knew I would need it to be relatively portable for several reasons. Firstly, I must carry my scope about 40ft from storage through a narrow path and gate to get to my viewing spot. Secondly, I want to be able to load it into the car readily enough to escape the dreaded LP. Sadly, these first two are further dictated by my lack of the world's strongest back. On top of that, I wanted a goto, which seems to add a couple of kgs whichever way you look at it.

Anyhow, only being interested in visual for starters, I'd managed to get my list down to…

• SW 250px goto
  
• SW 300p goto
  
• CPC1100/925
  

And then while travelling I made a visit to a public outreach event where I was (very kindly) shown C11 Edge HD+CGEM+Ethos… can anyone say lethal combination? To make matters worse, while checking out these beasts online I noticed the promotion on the C11, and the rest is, as they say, history. Convinced I'd got myself a bargain on the inevitable (LOL), I figured with the light nights it would just sit around in storage until later in the summer and give me some time to suss out a mount. Patience patience. Enough of the torture! The NEQ6 arrived last week

This is supposed to be an equipment review, so I'd better get started. I should point out that I only got my first adulthood scope last year, so this is not going to be highly technical, or probably all that useful

Celestron C11 Edge HD OTA

The C11 came well packaged in a box that at first took me by surprise! However, once unpacked the OTA surprised me with how light it was considering the physical size. Also in the box is a 10x50 finder scope, a 2 inch diagonal and an Axiom LX 23mm eyepiece. The OTA itself is a handsome looking piece of kit that feels well built. I'm sure you've all seen then before so I won't fill-up on pics, but in daylight the paint finish is not a flat cream but more sparkly in finish like the more recent orange SCTs - my (now) grab and go is a Nexstar 6SE which looks great in Celestron orange. The dovetail of the C11 is tastefully finished in a matt version of the orange.

Out of the box the C11 has a 3.25 inch to 2 inch visual back, ready to accept a 2 inch SCT threaded diagonal. On the face of it, this seems OK, but on further investigation the actual aperture out of the vb is only 37mm In addition, the diagonal supplied also looks OK, but the feel of the metal casing doesn't exude quality. For now at least, I think I'll be using my GSO diagonal that I bought for the 6SE.

Skywatcher NEQ6 pro

In my ideal (visual) world, I probably would have bought one of the Celestron CPC models (probably the 1100!), but was put off by the 31kg weight of the fork+OTA. Likewise, the matching CGEM is no lightweight and that may or may not be for good reason, but after a bit of reading around I figured I could shave a few kgs off by going for a NEQ6, or a few more if I went for the iOptron iEQ45 (whose handling of one of these is still up for debate!). In the end, the NEQ6 was a sensible choice in saving me around £300 compared with the CGEM, but also available almost immediately

Like the C11, the NEQ6 was well packaged with parts separated across two boxes. The tripod has 2 inch diameter steel legs with sturdy feeling locks at the ends. The mount/head is the heavy part of this combination, but is not particularly difficult to home onto the tripod. Both components feel solidly built, certainly on the functional side, and while gloss white wouldn't be my first choice of paint, I'm less bothered by how smart it doesn't look (compared to the CGEM) and more interested in how well it works in its element… the dark.

Setup and getting started

Was I prepared for a GEM after my little alt-az scopes? To be honest, I wasn't completely convinced. The C11 OTA alone is about the same weight as my 6SE full assembled, but the NEQ6 is another leap up. For now I'll be moving the tripod and mount in separate trips. And another one for the counterweights, and another for the OTA itself! So bearing in mind this was my first time, arguably with a scope bigger than I knew how to handle, I hope some of you get some laughs

I had practiced building the mount and balancing the scope indoors before the clouds parted on Friday night, and at 10pm I started carrying parts to my viewing spot. In hindsight I realised I had left it too late before getting started, but after levelling the tripod on the uneven ground, roughly aligning the mount so I could see (what I believe was) Polaris in the circle of the polar scope and balancing the OTA, it was almost 11pm.

On the subject of balancing, it required both counterweights pushed almost to the end of the bar (including extension bar), albeit with some travel remaining above the counterweight bar lock on the mount, and I found getting the scope balanced much more tricky than when I'd practiced, like wrestling a bear … tips for getting the OTA secured on the puck and in the place I want it without losing more hair gratefully received!

I'm still a little confused about what I'm supposed to do with the polar scope to get Polaris in the little circle on the edge of the bigger circle, but that's a challenge for another day… Friday night I was determined to get first light.....And first light I did get. After I'd fumbled with the alignment of the finder scope, yet another operation more tricky to accomplish in the dark! More than once during the session I needed to re-align the two, as I had managed to nudge the finder scope out of alignment with my head when aiming for the eyepiece.

The Axiom LX 23mm eyepiece included with the OTA is extraordinarily large, at least from my limited experience, the combination of the EP and the diagonal I'd estimate tipping the scales at over 1kg. In use, I struggled to get comfortable with the Axiom and almost constant blackouts due to my inability to find the sweet spot easily, so I swapped it out for my Nagler 20T5 (originally bought for the 6SE!) which I found much more user friendly. On reading around, the Axiom is regarded as not a bad EP, so I will have to give it another go at some point.

Once I was able to comfortably see objects through the eyepiece, I entered the pertinent information into the Synscan handset and selected a 1-star alignment using Vega. Given my rough polar alignment I wasn't expecting perfect accuracy, and I did need to re-align on adjacent bright stars a couple of times through the session, in an effort to maintain near-enough gotos. Next time around, I'll attempt a 2-star or 3-star alignment and then I'll see how much the alignment calculations can compensate for my rough polar alignment. Having used the Nexstar series, using the handset isn't unfamiliar territory apart from a few of the buttons being assigned to different functions and having to pay a bit more attention to the menus. Overall, it's easy enough to just get started and see something, which was my only goal that night!

I've posted my targets - successes and failures - here , so below are a few observations about the equipment as setup….

• Finder scope - not ideally positioned or just a little too proud of the end of mirror-end of the scope to be avoided, although I will have to learn! Maybe I should to do some further research into alternatives.
  
• Focussing - this is a bit stiff and mirror shift seems apparent when switching directions (although it seems to shift more or less back to where you started when going back again). I'll have to run the focusser up and down the track a couple of times and see if that spreads the grease a little more evenly and see if it smooths it out.
  
• Contorting - a couple of times the mount seemed to avoid taking the easy route to what I thought would be a pretty short slew, and ended up with the finder scope on the underside and the diagonal pointing down. I declined its offer of sliding along the ground and selected my next target instead.
  
• Overall views - first impressions were very impressive, this is a lot more light than I get with the 6SE. Equipped with the Nagler, I found the view especially pleasing on the globs, being able to discern a great deal of detail that was obviously lacking from the 6SE in LP-land. On Saturn, I found I could use moons out towards the edge of field as focussing points rather than the planet itself (with the Nagler and ES82 14mm), as I found focussing using the bright(er, than 6SE) planet difficult with the stiff focusser.
  

The story this far...

I'll try to add more to this as I go along, but I'm really looking forward to the next fine weather opportunity - but naturally in the meantime I will have more reading and question asking to do about potential upgrades to improve the experience further. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for the arrival of the Meade LX80 and Skywatcher AZ6 mounts to see if I slash my setup time, but maybe that'll happen anyway with experience. In the meantime, the plastic can breathe a sigh of relief

Shopping list items already in mind include:

• Baader Clicklock 3.25 visual back
  
• Decent 2 inch diagonal
  
• A nice wide EP
  
• SW AZ6 / Meade LX80 ?
  

I Am just waiting for My EQ6 Puck and saddle to mount my C11 HD

[Merlin66]

I use the same C11/ NEQ6pro combo for spectroscopy. Great set-up.

I changed over to the wider Losmandy dovetail and added a safety clamp...makes it 100% easier ( and 100% safer) to fit the OTA to the saddle.

I have a SW focuser motor / belt drive fitted - cheap and works well.

Bob's Knobs for collimating

Heated Dew Shield.

[Dunkster]

It's a great combination - so far!

@Merlin66 - what's the safety clamp you use?

[m.tweedy]

this is it. the same as i have on mine

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Astrodevelopments-Losmandy-style-dovetail-safety-clamp-scope-mounting-plate-/270977887187?pt=UK_Telescope_Mounts&hash=item3f178a6bd3#ht_2746wt_1163

[Merlin66]

Yeah,

That looks like the one I have....works very well!

[Dunkster]

Be gentle with me chaps, what goes where, how many, what for?

Tried looking for their website and not getting anything useful out of that

[m.tweedy]

click on the link i gave you and it shows how and where it goes.personally i have 2 one at the very back of the dovetail and the front one just on balance point so when i clip the tube onto the mount there is no messing around to balance the ota

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Astrodevelopments-Losmandy-style-dovetail-safety-clamp-scope-mounting-plate-/270977887187?pt=UK_Telescope_Mounts&hash=item3f178a6bd3#ht_2746wt_1163

[Dunkster]

Thanks Michael, sorry for being dense... eventually it occurred to me that the safety clamp attaches to the dovetail ahead/behind the puck it's been one of those days

Making it safer and easier is a double bonus!

[m.tweedy]

so what else have you attached to the scope/mount. you have had it for a while now so it must have been tinkered with by now.

[Arushin]

I'm still a little confused about what I'm supposed to do with the polar scope to get Polaris in the little circle on the edge of the bigger circle

Hi Dunkster

try looking through the polarscope and turning the Dec on the mount so that the pictured constellations match the real sky. Then adjust the ALT so that Polaris is in the centre of the small circle (you must be accuarately aligned North first) and hey presto 'Polar aligned'. Well.... it seemed to work for me the other night.

[Dunkster]

so what else have you attached to the scope/mount. you have had it for a while now so it must have been tinkered with by now.

Well... I managed to pull a muscle that first light night and been banned from lifting weight since! I've had a couple of quick peeks with the 6 but the weather has been quite poor too.

Coupled to that work has been crazy... although the not so unpleasant side-effect of overtime means more shiny....

That's 2 1/2 out of 4 on my list although that's grown now you guys have shown me the light with the safety bar... if I'd had one of those to start with, I probably wouldn't have pulled myself out of shape

Still need a wider EP, but I also need to eat and sleep besides work

[Dunkster]

Hi Dunkster

try looking through the polarscope and turning the Dec on the mount so that the pictured constellations match the real sky. Then adjust the ALT so that Polaris is in the centre of the small circle (you must be accuarately aligned North first) and hey presto 'Polar aligned'. Well.... it seemed to work for me the other night.

Thanks Arushin! Really stupid question coming now... how do I rotate the polar scope? First light I must have been lucky as I didn't fiddle with that other than get Polaris more or less in the middle and while my gotos were mostly off, normally not by much. But it was first light, I was happy anyway

[Arushin]

Thanks Arushin! Really stupid question coming now... how do I rotate the polar scope? First light I must have been lucky as I didn't fiddle with that other than get Polaris more or less in the middle and while my gotos were mostly off, normally not by much. But it was first light, I was happy anyway

Hi Dunkster,

you don't rotate the polarscope... I tried that and failed. That's when I had my epiphany!

Make sure you are pointing North accurately and then just unlock the Dec and swing the whole axis around until the positions of the constellations in the polarscope match the sky. Lock the Dec again and adjust the two Alt bolts (carefully) until Polaris is in the circle. If you have a good North alignment you should only have to aim the mount up or down. Then you can unlock again and let the Dec return to the 'home' position. If you think about it, it makes sense. As everything rotates around the NCP, matching the constellations in the polarscope to the sky will tell you exactly where Polaris would be in relation to the NCP for the given time of year. You are now polar aligned so it doesn't matter that the Dec axis has been returned to the home position because the mount will now rotate around the NCP.

Hope that makes sense. If not PM me or give me a ring.

Also, on the subject of balancing... I use an extra weight and only the first half of the weight bar (one weight at the very bottom and the upper 2 adjustable to get the balance). I then marked the positions of the upper 2 weights on the bar. This means I can get a good balance and also keep more weight towards the centre of the mount. Also the polarscope is permanently unobstructed. (I bought 2 extra weights so I have one spare if you want to try this method).

Just another quick tip... use the 3 star alignment option. It takes a little bit longer but the GoTo accuracy will be so much better. As soon as the weather clears I will email all you guys to see if you want to check out the dark site I have been given access to.

Catch you at the next meetup mate.

Regards Tony

[m.tweedy]

Thanks Arushin! Really stupid question coming now... how do I rotate the polar scope? First light I must have been lucky as I didn't fiddle with that other than get Polaris more or less in the middle and while my gotos were mostly off, normally not by much. But it was first light, I was happy anyway

Use something like polarfinder

http://myastroimages.com/Polar_FinderScope_by_Jason_Dale/

which shows the position polaris should be or alternatively the handset will tell you for example "polaris at 2.30" then release the dec clutch and rotate the tube until polaris is at the 2.30 position. That will mean the tube and counterweight bar get into some funny positions so it is essential everything is "tight". one the little circle is in the right place you then adjust the latitude adjustment and or the azmuth bolts until polaris is in the little circle. REMEMBER it is polaris not cochab (I wonder which silly sod has aligned on cochab and scratched his head when the mount was way out on its pointing accuracy!!!)

here is a tutorial

[Dunkster]

Great - thanks chaps!

I had watched the AS equatorial mount videos before first light and didn't follow all of it, but I think having been out in the dark getting some hands-on time (albeit only once and weeks ago!), Tony's summary makes a lot more sense now! It is a steep learning curve, but I can't wait to get back out there with it, it just might take a little more healing first... but at least gives me a little more time to get all the accessories together

I'll definitely be going for more than 1-star alignment next time too. I'd normally only use solar system align on the SE mount if I'm specifically tracking a planet and it's OK for the most part, but use sky align when I'm after dsos. Given time and weather constraints, the 6SE will still get plenty of use because all I have to do is walk it 40ft and power it on, but hope to get more sessions with the C11 in the coming months.

[Dunkster]

click on the link i gave you and it shows how and where it goes.personally i have 2 one at the very back of the dovetail and the front one just on balance point so when i clip the tube onto the mount there is no messing around to balance the ota

http://www.ebay.co.u...#ht_2746wt_1163

OK, now I understand why you have two

[m.tweedy]

your next bit of kit is

THIS

http://admaccessories.com/MDS_dovetail_bars.htm?

on the top of the tube and you can add "things" to your hearts delight

mine alternates between my Megrez 90 or Wo66 then I get the close up views in the C11 and widefield in the smaller frac. I love the contrasting views.

[Dunkster]

more excuses to get a small frac