Dob vs EQ3 for a Beginner

[brantuk]

Yes - I upgraded my 300P auto to Synscan AZ Goto. It's easy - just a handset swop no other mods needed. It can only be done with the AZ Goto Sysncan Handset - not to be confused with the EQ handset which won't work - and it has to be a version 3.0 or above handset - the version 2.0 handset isn't compatible.

The Sky Scout is a great little tool for kids - but an adult will soon exceed the usefullness of it's info output. It can be used for locating known objects, or identifying unknown objects in the sky. It doesn't magnify - it's just like looking through a Telrad.

But it's useless as a finder scope cos it can't be near anything metalic for fear of interference. It looses it's gps co-ords far too easily. It has a very limited battery life - and ours only lasts an hour or two in the field which for the most part involves walking around, resetting it, and switching on/off in the hope it will work next time.

You need to be in a desert with no overhead cables or underground electrics with your own powerpack connected by a home made connector to get anything even remotely useful out of it. Imho - not a useful item for astronomers - would suit a nomadic arabic electrician lol

[Omega]

That's good then so I can always upgrade to SYNSCAN when it becomes financially feasible. So will the AUTO actively track a target once I have it in sight? Or is it merely a system to move the telescope via motor rather than hand?

[Orion_the_Hunter]

Hi, I also say go for the 200p Dob.

I wrote about it's ease of use here: > http://stargazerslounge.com/member-equipment-reviews/132996-skywatcher-skyliner-200p-8-dob.html

[brantuk]

The auto tracks, and you can also move it by the arrow keys or manually and it will still track

[Omega]

Some really great tips guys, your help has been invaluable, thanks.

Pretty sure I'm going to opt for 200P Flextube AUTO Dob, but just a few final questions....

Does the FlexTube with a shroud compromise visual quality in the slightest in comparison to the standard 200P?

Does the motorised Dob make manual movement less restrictive? And is the motorised version that much heavier?

Cheers

[BAZ Senior]

I don't know about the motors, but the shroud would help improve the view with a flex tube, but I don't think you would be able to see any difference between a shroud and a solid tube version.

The Astrozap ones although fairly pricey are probably one of the best, the advantage being it is collapsed with the tube assembly, then when needed it is drawn up when the tube is extended again.

I had a home made one which needed fitting to the scope every time it was used, which worked great, but Iam pleased with the Astrozap, much easier to use.

[ItIsOnlyMe]

Yes, it will "adequately" track an object, for visual it is fine and I am starting to use my 300p for webcam imaging of the moon but I would guess that you need a whole new level of tracking accuracy for "serious" astrophotography. You can upgrade the auto to goto just by changing the handset as a few people on here have done, including myself.

[Omega]

Will the 200P give good views of planets? Am I likely to make out details with Jupiter such as the red spot and moons etc, Saturns ring structure, or even details on the Moon? I've heard a lot of people singing this scopes praises for DSO observing, but little about its performance on objects closer to home?

Does anybody have any images with the scope that are likely to give an impression as what to expect?

[John]

Images are very misleading as our eyes just can't compete with what CCD's can produce. Sketches and drawings made at the eyepiece are a much better guide - we have a section on SGL for those.

An 8" F/6 scope is very good for planetary viewing and you can see the features you have listed above, except for features on (I assume) Saturn or Jupiters moons which need exceptional conditions, scope and observer to make out - these moons are really tiny disks. On our moon you will see more detail than you can ever imagine though !.

You will need to work on these features, though - the major stuff is obvious but things like the Cassini Division, the Great Red Spot etc can be hard to spot, especially when you are new to planetary observing. Seeing conditions will often mask this finer detail so don't blame yourself or your scope if you can't make them out on the early attempts.

Astronomy is quite exacting at times !

[Sarah]

We have had both the solid tube and the flextube (auto) versions of the 12" dob. The main reason for buying the flextube version was that we wanted to put it in the car to take to star parties. The 12" solid tube was just a bit too long! You should be fine with the 8".

We made a shroud for the flextube from a camping mat. I don't think there was much difference, if any, in the visual quality between the solid and flextube scopes. The solid tube held it's collimation better than the flextube does. Also when moving it manually, the solid tube was that bit smoother than the auto flextube version is, but manually moving the flextube is not restrictive. We have also found the flextube version seems to be slightly more susceptible to dew. But we are very happy with the flextube auto version and we also added the GoTo handset.

The simplicity of the solid tube version is great, but the flextube has other advantages, which is why we ended up selling the solid tube and keeping the flextube. Either option would be a good choice!

Some really great tips guys, your help has been invaluable, thanks.

Pretty sure I'm going to opt for 200P Flextube AUTO Dob, but just a few final questions....

Does the FlexTube with a shroud compromise visual quality in the slightest in comparison to the standard 200P?

Does the motorised Dob make manual movement less restrictive? And is the motorised version that much heavier?

Cheers

[onesmallstep]

Will the 200P give good views of planets? Am I likely to make out details with Jupiter such as the red spot and moons etc, Saturns ring structure, or even details on the Moon? I've heard a lot of people singing this scopes praises for DSO observing, but little about its performance on objects closer to home?

Does anybody have any images with the scope that are likely to give an impression as what to expect?

Hi

My Dob had first light back in October at a star party and I saw a range of objects including Jupiter during the Io transit. I saw the planet defined as a small disc, the four main moons, two cloud belts, the GRS and Io's shadow. I was using the stock 10mm EP so the mag was 120x. The Dob is a great scope for both DSO and planetary / lunar observing and I will be more organised for future observing sessions so will get more from the viewing experience.

If in doubt then contact your local astro group and arrange to visit during an observing night so that you can try various types and sizes of scope and see for yourself before taking the plunge. Go to the Federation Of Astronomical Societies by searching under 'fedastro' in a search engine and clicking on the Societies link from the FAS homepage.

HTH!

[Omega]

Hi

If in doubt then contact your local astro group and arrange to visit during an observing night so that you can try various types and sizes of scope and see for yourself before taking the plunge. Go to the Federation Of Astronomical Societies by searching under 'fedastro' in a search engine and clicking on the Societies link from the FAS homepage.

HTH!

Thanks for the tip. I have since found my Society will definitely look into going to the next observing night.

Finally found a price for the 250P AUTO, which is cheaper than I thought. Question is will there be a sizeable and discernible difference with an extra 2" of aperture?

[John]

The additional 2" of aperture will make some difference on deep sky objects, perhaps less on planets and the moon.

The 250P is a good scope but it's focal ratio is a faster F/4.7 compared to the 200P's F/6. The 250 will be a bit more demanding to keep in accurate collimation and will be more demanding on eyepieces, particularly wide field ones.

I'm not saying don't go for the additional aperture, it's just that you ought to be aware of these other points about it.

[Omega]

Appreciate the advice. Probably worth using the money towards accessories instead then. Besides, I guess 8" is more than adequate for my first scope.

Is the standard issue finderscope accurate and useful, or would it be worth sourcing an additional red dot finder too? I see many members on the forums have preference on these...

[brantuk]

The significance of a 2" jump in aperture will be more discernable to an experienced observer. If it's your first scope and you're new to astronomy you may struggle to appreciate the differences (for a while at least).

8"-10" is a tentative step because you're in the mid range of commercial scope sizes between going from small to large. However - if you've used an 8" for a while then the next logical step would be 12" for more obvious differences (all my opinion of course - others may see it differently).

If you start at 10", then 14" or 16" would be a useful "next step" - but by then you're hopelessly afflicted with aperture fever and heading for 20" territory and bankruptcy lol

[JKB]

I got myself the 150p a little while back and its great. For getting into astrophotography its good to learn the basics with because it has the equatorial and if you get some motors on it you can do some ok long exposures.

Everyone on here seems to be a bit negative about first time buyers and astrophotography but i think getting a 150p is great to start playing around with astrophotography and also for learning the sky. Planets are a good view as well and yes the tripod is meant to be wobbly but i haven't anything to compare it to and i think it will do for now, for learning, and i can upgrade it in a year or so.

I always got the impression that dobs are a bit harder to get longer exposure photos unless you get all the high tech expensive stuff.

Oh yea and stuff like polar aligning isn't as hard as some make it to be, takes a few minuets to set everything up but then your away.

Hope this helps

Matt

I too started with the 150p on EQ3-2 and although I have upgraded the mount to HEQ5 I still use the 150p more than any of my other scopes. I have the 200 Dob and as said before it is quick to set up but to be honest it aint my favourite. I don't like having to nudge it to keep things in the eyepiece and it is no good for AP.

WHen we mention Astrophotography people always go on about how much it will cost for the 'right' equipment etc. I'm damn happy with the pictures I've taken with my equipment. I can't claim them to be anywhere as good as others on SGL but if I spend 20mins snapping away and get an image of something millions of miles away I am happy! I don't want to take hours and hours of data (respect to all on SGL who do though) but I like to have a look visually then take a pic for proof i suppose.

My honest advice is if you can find someone nearby and have a look through scopes first then decide.

HTH

Cheers

Jamie

[brantuk]

I couldn't agree more Jamie - you don't need thousands to make a start in imaging - look at this thread - the OP uses very basic gear - only an 80mm achro which is normally used as a guide scope - and a standard unmodified familly dslr:

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-deep-sky/164273-horsehead-flame-nebula-st80.html

[CJBooth]

I'm a beginner too and have just purchased a DOB, and I love it. I cannot recommend it highly enough. Setup time is fast, it stores upright needing minimal space and it captures loads of light.

I've opted for the Auto system instead of Goto or a manual version, which allows me to find the objects myself (which means I learn) whilst still being able to take advantage of the tracking it offers.

Here's mine: http://stargazerslounge.com/blogs/cjbooth/1060-my-new-pride-joy.html

I went for the 300P but this is quite heavy (and bulky) so be sure to check the weight to make sure you'll be happy with it.

As for eyepieces, go to some meets and take a look at some. A member here was kind enough to let me borrow some which I am now purchasing from him.

[Omega]

I too started with the 150p on EQ3-2 and although I have upgraded the mount to HEQ5 I still use the 150p more than any of my other scopes. I have the 200 Dob and as said before it is quick to set up but to be honest it aint my favourite. I don't like having to nudge it to keep things in the eyepiece and it is no good for AP.

WHen we mention Astrophotography people always go on about how much it will cost for the 'right' equipment etc. I'm damn happy with the pictures I've taken with my equipment. I can't claim them to be anywhere as good as others on SGL but if I spend 20mins snapping away and get an image of something millions of miles away I am happy! I don't want to take hours and hours of data (respect to all on SGL who do though) but I like to have a look visually then take a pic for proof i suppose.

As the 200P I have my eyes on is an AUTO tracking version, I'm hoping I'll be able to take some pics at least. Though obviously will not be able to do very long exposures with my SLR.

It looks like the resounding opinion is that the extra 2" is not advisable then, at least not now.

Does anybody recommend a Red Dot finder of the standard Finderscope?

[Omega]

I coouldn't agree more Jamie - you don't need thousands to make a start in imaging - look at this thread - the OP uses very basic gear - only an 80mm achro which is normally used as a guide scope - and a standard unmodified familly dslr:

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-deep-sky/164273-horsehead-flame-nebula-st80.html

Nice pic!!! That's assuring then... Was that taken just holding the camera lens to the eyepiece?

Will I be able to take some quick exposure DSLR shots with the AUTO?

[brantuk]

You will be very restricted on exposure time for dso's. I've seen times bandied around of 20 to 30 seconds. But for planets it will be very good. You'll need the right tool for the job though - planets are best shot with a webcam (dso's with a dslr or ccd). But dso's really want your camera to be on an EQ mount, polar aligned, with great accuracy, and possibly guiding.

An alt/az mount like the dobsonian will produce rotation effects very soon after the exposure starts.

[Omega]

You will be very restricted on exposure time for dso's. I've seen times bandied around of 20 to 30 seconds. But for planets it will be very good. You'll need the right tool for the job though - planets are best shot with a webcam (dso's with a dslr or ccd). But dso's really want your camera to be on an EQ mount, polar aligned, with great accuracy, and possibly guiding.

An alt/az mount like the dobsonian will produce rotation effects very soon after the exposure starts.

I see, so for planetary images using a CCD, the Dob AUTO would suffice? I realise DSLR is practically out of the equation with the dob, but if I could get some shots of Saturn and Jupiter with a webcam or CCD then I would very happy.

[Omega]

Can anyone confirm whether the 200P Flex comes with a right-angle Finder as standard? Some images show at a right angle and others not? I can see a right angle being beneficial as otherwise it looks rather awkward to use the finder, unless literally hugging the telescope....

[brantuk]

"for planetary images using a CCD, the Dob AUTO would suffice?"

The point here is that the dob is alt/az so you can't do long exposure using astro ccd's or dslr's without star trailing. You'll need a webcam to capture planets/moon only, in between seeing deficiencies, then stack, align, and tweak in a picture package like Photoshop. I'd recommend "Making Every Photon Count" - the beginners bible to astro photography.

"Can anyone confirm whether the 200P Flex comes with a right-angle Finder?"

Nope it comes with a straight through finder - lots of folks change them for right angle finders (I did lol).

[RikM]

I added a Rigel QuikFinder and a right angle correct image finder to my Dob.

They sit side by side at the top of the tube.