Where next after the MN190 ?

[Catanonia]

Thinking abou the next 12 months.

What would be a good step up from a Skywatcher MN190.

Looking at Borens scopes and they look very nice.

Obviously after apeture and f ration as well as flatness.

Thoughts ?

[reddoss]

What type of targets do you want to image? I ask as the new 8 inch Boren-Simon astrograph has an f ratio of 2.8, so you will get a very wide field of view.

Personally, I would like to try one of the new 10 inch SW quatros. I will wait and see what others think of them first before I decide. Has anyone on this forum written a review of any of these imagaing newts yet?

[shaunster]

I dont consider the quattro a step up from the MN190, something like a orion uk astrograph is what I would call the next step up. The MN190 is hard to beat and you have to spend thousdands of £££ to do it..

[Catanonia]

I dont consider the quattro a step up from the MN190, something like a orion uk astrograph is what I would call the next step up. The MN190 is hard to beat and you have to spend thousdands of £££ to do it..

Yeah hence the question, beyond the MN190 my knowledge thins

Imaging wise, looking for around 700 - 1000mm focal length for a nice medium of nebula / galaxy DSO targets.

[shaunster]

Orion AG10 fits that spec http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/AG/agrangeand%28ota%29t.html

[Whippy]

Not quite sure why aperture is a requirement, only that it'd have to be large to be fast and have that kind of focal length. You'd also have to take into account that filters are only designed down to a certain speed (IIRC about f4 or so), any faster you might have issues.

I'd also question if you're going to 'grow out' of the 190, it's a very decent scope. Fast, flat and with a large field illumination. I can't see why you'd want any more than that.

Anyway, take your pic from:

Takahashi Epsilon 180

Intes Micro M103, MN74 & 84

The OO astrographs

Hyperstars for SCT's

ASA astrographs

Tony..

[Astroscot2]

It’s quite a tricky question to answer; you have got to know what type of objects you want to image and what floats your boat. What is it about your images your currently taking that you feel you need to change your kit in 12 months? Or is the “equipment churn” we all experience when we see each others images ;-) (I know about this)

I have been thinking about 1 scope for anything over the past few years and im continually impressed by the images being produced through good quality newts with good quality focal reducers. Borens scopes are an excellent example of this. Not taking anything away from the scope as we have been the images it can produce , its an F4 newt reduced to F2.8 I can see a trend moving away from refractors for imaging.

It’s an interesting question Steve have long think before deciding. good luck

[Catanonia]

Yes it is equipment / gadget desire that is making me think about and and perhaps start saving now for the dream scope.

I tried and failed to reduce the MN190 down to around F3 with a home made reducer. It worked, but killed the flat field the MN190 gives with the corrector.

Looking at the other scopes out there, the one Boren uses at F2.8 looks great.

Also wouldn't mind and AG10 or 12. Definately something to save up for.

It’s quite a tricky question to answer; you have got to know what type of objects you want to image and what floats your boat. What is it about your images your currently taking that you feel you need to change your kit in 12 months? Or is the “equipment churn” we all experience when we see each others images ;-) (I know about this)

I have been thinking about 1 scope for anything over the past few years and im continually impressed by the images being produced through good quality newts with good quality focal reducers. Borens scopes are an excellent example of this. Not taking anything away from the scope as we have been the images it can produce , its an F4 newt reduced to F2.8 I can see a trend moving away from refractors for imaging.

It’s an interesting question Steve have long think before deciding. good luck

[Martin-Devon]

The F3 Richey Chrentien astrograph (RH200 in 8" OTA) from Officina Stellare looks interesting - maybe too fast (?), and very high price, but certainly an impressive bit of kit.

[fatwoul]

Yes it is equipment / gadget desire that is making me think about and and perhaps start saving now for the dream scope...

I can relate to this. I love my MN190 - seriously, I'm amazed I was lucky enough to find it as my first scope - but I still hanker for other scopes.

I'm enjoying using the 314L+, but combined with the MN190 it does rule out a lot of objects as being too big. I have my little 80ED at FL-600mm.

The MN190 is such a nice scope, though, that I am starting to think that if I want to cover a larger FoV, I should spend that money on eventually getting a bigger sensor instead of a wider-field scope.

Faced with the same dilemma of what to blow all my money on next, I'm considering an Astrotrac and one of those lens adapters so I can take my 314 out to dark sites, and use it with my Nikon 85mm/1.4. I think my dad might also be keen on a PST, so imaging with that could be fun.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy every session in my obsy - even the disastrous ones - but it'd be nice to mix things up with some radically different stuff now and then just to keep things fresh and exciting.

[ollypenrice]

To be fast at the sort of FL you want it is going to be pretty big! To beat a well tuned MN190 it is also going to have to be pretty good...

My TEC140 is pretty good (to say the least) but will it really beat an MN190? If the 190 is on form, probably not. If it isn't, probably yes. The TEC has no idea what being on form means, however. It's a premium refractor and just does it. But in your shoes I wouldn't make that move.

If you are getting your 190 to sing (not everone does but I get the feeling you are doing so) then why not a second instrument of shorter FL? You've done some great widefields so what about a second hand Tak Epsilon? Or, indeed, one of Harel's Powernewts. Something of short FL and fast so you can get around big swathes of sky.

Olly

[Catanonia]

To be fast at the sort of FL you want it is going to be pretty big! To beat a well tuned MN190 it is also going to have to be pretty good...

My TEC140 is pretty good (to say the least) but will it really beat an MN190? If the 190 is on form, probably not. If it isn't, probably yes. The TEC has no idea what being on form means, however. It's a premium refractor and just does it. But in your shoes I wouldn't make that move.

If you are getting your 190 to sing (not everone does but I get the feeling you are doing so) then why not a second instrument of shorter FL? You've done some great widefields so what about a second hand Tak Epsilon? Or, indeed, one of Harel's Powernewts. Something of short FL and fast so you can get around big swathes of sky.

Olly

good advice Olly,

I have my WO66 + flattener for 300mm work at around F4.8 ish for that sort of work.

Been looking at WO refractors to replace my old and battered Skywatcher ED80 Pro for the 600mm range.

I suppose what I am after is something in the really low F ranges and around the 1000mm mark.

On the back of S@N magazine this month, there are new Skywatcher carbon newts and the biggest is 300mm at 1200mm F4. The problem here would mostly be flattness compared to the MN190.

I just wish they did a MN300, that would be perfect and I would pay for that happily.

[fatwoul]

...If you are getting your 190 to sing (not everone does but I get the feeling you are doing so)...

Much as I love my MN190, I don't think I've yet made it sing. I guess I need practice...

...On the back of S@N magazine this month, there are new Skywatcher carbon newts and the biggest is 300mm at 1200mm F4...

Don't forget that the 12" isn't carbon, but steal. Only the 8 and 10" are carbon OTAs, so I suspect the 12" is going to be pretty heavy.

[Astroscot2]

OO do carbon tube newts, I have one myself and love it, well built with superb optics. Combined with an ASA reducer / corrector makes for an interesting imaging instrument ;-)

[ollypenrice]

There's a WO 98 with Feathertouch on the For Sale board at the moment. John in Derby is not a con merchant so I'd look at it, at least...

The ZS66 is OK in narrowband but struggles with colour. Well, struggles? It isn't a Baby Q or an Epsilon. I'll be using mine for NB to add to colour and lum from the Tak this winter.

Olly

[Catanonia]

There's a WO 98 with Feathertouch on the For Sale board at the moment. John in Derby is not a con merchant so I'd look at it, at least...

The ZS66 is OK in narrowband but struggles with colour. Well, struggles? It isn't a Baby Q or an Epsilon. I'll be using mine for NB to add to colour and lum from the Tak this winter.

Olly

Already been in contact with john about the 98. Nice scope and price but the time isn't right yet.

[Whippy]

There's a WO 98 with Feathertouch on the For Sale board at the moment. John in Derby is not a con merchant so I'd look at it, at least...

The ZS66 is OK in narrowband but struggles with colour. Well, struggles? It isn't a Baby Q or an Epsilon. I'll be using mine for NB to add to colour and lum from the Tak this winter.

Olly

TBH Olly, having had a FLT98 and replaced it with an ED80, I was more than pleasantly surprised by the ED80 especially when I added the reducer. There really isn't much in it at all from an imaging perspective, including colour correction which just goes to show just how much of a bargain the ED80 is.

Tony..

[Deneb]

I echo your comments Tony... I can't really see much difference between the GT81 & the SW 80ED when it comes to imaging.

Nadeem

[Catanonia]

I used to have the ED120 Skywatcher Diamond and noticed a massive step change with the MN190. So going for a triplet and smaller gets me wondering if it is worth it other than the ease of use.

The WO and TEC do look nice and look like works of art, but after that ?

PLEASE SKYWATCHER : Bring out an MN300

[ollypenrice]

It's true that the ED80 is the fly in the ointment for anybody wanting to produce a small apo at less that a couple of grand. It is just so good and so well proven. In the wildlife world of digiscoping it also has a prodigious reputation.

One scope I really don't see myself selling is the Baby Q. It has no vices. It holds focus all night, has perfect colour correction so far as I can tell, produces tiny, halo free stars and has a flat field that makes Norfolk look like a ski resort. It can run at 328mm (F3.9) and 450mm (F5.3). I think they are rare because people see them as a poor man's FSQ106. They are not that at all. The 106 does have issues not seen in the 85. For widefield astrophotography the Baby Q is a killer. In widefield I really don't want diffraction spikes or tiny square stars in rich starfields even if they look OK on close up images. So, very much not for sale but highly recommended.

Olly

[Whippy]

I used to have the ED120 Skywatcher Diamond and noticed a massive step change with the MN190. So going for a triplet and smaller gets me wondering if it is worth it other than the ease of use.

The WO and TEC do look nice and look like works of art, but after that ?

PLEASE SKYWATCHER : Bring out an MN300

But you're comparing a Mak-Newt to a refractor of roughly the same price which is the same as comparing apples to oranges. If you want a fast, colour free 5" 'frac then be prepared to spend considerably more, although used a reducer my old ED120 bringing it down to f6 and it was decent .

BTW, if you want a 12" MN, then have a look at APM, they do the entire Intes Mirco range.

Tony..

[Catanonia]

BTW, if you want a 12" MN, then have a look at APM, they do the entire Intes Mirco range.

Tony..

mmm, nice, finding information on these Mus Newts is hard though.

[Catanonia]

Ok found some info eventually.

Being Russian, they are very heavy, i mean heavy. The only one worth my time would be the INTES ALTER MN 1006 at 10inch, but at £6000+

Hardly worth it from a MN190 at £1000 for an extra 2 inches of apeture.

[Whippy]

I still can't see why you're thinking about aperture over focal ratio.... The MN74, 84 and f3 astrographs would be what you'd be interested in.

Tony..

[Catanonia]

I still can't see why you're thinking about aperture over focal ratio.... The MN74, 84 and f3 astrographs would be what you'd be interested in.

Tony..

I am after a fast scope F5.3 or lower with a flat field corrector built into it and preferably greater than 200mm apeture. Struggling to understand the Intes range, their naming convention is somewhat odd.