Canon EAS 1000D vs Nikon D3100

[Crunchard]

Hi all,

Got a bit of dilemma ...

Entry level DSLR to be purchased, but have the choice of the Canon EOS 1000D (which has many followers in AP) or the Nikon D3100 (4m more pixels, much newer model).

AP is not my primary concern really, but the camera will be used for this at some point.

So ... any comments on either?

Thanks, Jeff

[peteftm]

I've only had experience with the canons and own a 1000D now.I'm no technical whizz by any means but i find it really easy to use for AP and daytime use .

I've seen some good images from the nikons though

Peter

[Crunchard]

Thanks Peter - it is a dilemma!

[adamsp123]

I can't say anything about the Nikon directly but the Canon has proven its worth for astro imaging and it seems you can get it cheaper than the Nikon.

Forget the pixel count that will not matter for AP, also bear in mind it is relatively easy to mod the Canon by removing the IR filter to improve its performance in the Ha region of the spectrum.

my 2ps worth

[laser_jock99]

I went the Nikon way - only beacuase I had a collection of Nikon lenses for my film cameras. Had I been starting out from fresh with no existing lenses then I would probably have gone Canon. Even now I might buy a Canon DSLR body, since for through-the-telescope work you don't need any lenses.

[LDUNN1]

Jeff, I have had a life long (well since I was 14-15) interest in photography, starting out with Olympus manual SLR's, then migrating to the Canon Eos film system, then moving to Eos digital in 2006. My interest in photography lead me recently into a practical interest in astronomy earlier this year.

While I am using the Canon system, I'm not one of these 'canon is the best, Nikon is rubbish' types - I believe that both companies make fantastic cameras, & they have pros & cons.

I have read (in Michael Covington's book) that Canon may have some distinct advantages when it comes to astro use though. The free Canon Utilities software will permit you to connect your camera up to a laptop & use it to set a sequence of long exposures. There is also something that M.Covington describes as 'star eater' on the Nikon's, which I believe may be as the result of some internal processing whcih cannot be turned off which 'cleans' up long exposure images, sometimes 'cleaning up' parts of the image you actually want - like stars - obviously not good news. In M.Covingtons book we referred to Nikon DSLR's from around the D70 vintage & commented that a simplae firmware change would solve this issue - I have no idea if Nikon have resolved this on their latest cameras - I don't tend to read up much on Nikon's (other than the D700 when it was launched as I seriously contemplated 'jumping' systems).

Many people use the Canon 1000D for astro (& daylight) so that shoudl tell you something too.

In 2006 I had the 20D (8mp) & in 2009 I about the 5D2 (21mp) - which I am now using for astro - this upgrade was nothing to do with the number of pixels & much more to do with wanting a full frame sensor (much better for wide angle - not so great for astro in many ways), anti dust features & a much bigger hi res LCD on the rear. To be honest, at the time I would rather the camera had fewer pixels. I was perfectly happy with the 8mp of the 20d.

The more pixels you have on a sensor, the smaller the individual pixels are, & the worse the signal to noise ratio becomes for each individual pixel. This introduces 'noise' into the image & makes the camera less able in lower light. However, Canon did do a brilliant job on the 5D2 in somehow putting many pixels on the chip while keeping the low light capability very strong too - it is probably the 2nd best low light DSLR out there - I think the best would be the Nikon D700 (12mp).

So in summary, once you get into double figures, the difference in pixel count between two cameras would not bother me for A4 & A3 printing needs.......Unless one camera had a stupidly high pixel count - I would not want that one!

The other downside on high pixel counts is that the files they generate become very large & that puts an increased burdon on the PC, storage (Harddrive) & on the camera memory cards used - you'll need larger faster & therefore more expensive ones.

I have not read up about the Nikon D3100, but I would not hesitate on the 1000D.

Hope this helps.

Check out the reviews on DPReview:-

Canon EOS 1000D / Rebel XS Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

Nikon D3100 Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

[swag72]

The Canon 1000D really does seem to prove it's worth time and time again. If I was buying into a system and even had a thought about astrophotography I would go for Canon. You can get EOS clip in filters for the Canon (I have recently learnt that you can get Hutech clip in's for a Nikon) but have no experience of these. The software is all aimed at the Canon user. Also, if you wanted to have a go at some astro stuff using just a long prime lens, such as a 300mm for example, the Canon offerings tend to be a bit cheaper than the Nikons.

There's just so much more support for the Canons it would seem. Astronomiser (a good company that does modding and other power and cabling bits) does it all for Canon. If you wanted to get a way to run a Nikon off a battery or power instead of just having a camera battery that runs out during the night of imaging, then I don't know if you can buy these for Nikon.

I know I may sound like a bit of a fan boy - I'm really not. I bought into the Canon system a few years ago. Now I am dabbling with astrophotography I am glad that I did!

[Psychobilly]

I use Canons for Astro and Nikons for everything else...

I have 3 Canons a full spectrum 350D , Baader Modified 1000D , "Vanilla" 500D - the 1000D gets the most use it's nice sweet spot performance wise

Although my Canon Glass investment is starting to catch up with my Nikon one... so the next body is going to be a more difficult choice...

[Crunchard]

Many thanks for all the advice guys, it's really helped a lot.

I am definitely leaning towards the Canon.

Thanks, Jeff

[LDUNN1]

Jeff, bottom line is that for daylight, I don't think it makes much odds which you go with - both capable of great.....& not so great ;-), shots. But for astro, I think the Canon probably has the nod.

The one negative that I have with all the lower end Canons (the thousand & hundred series bodies), is that they don't have separate control wheels for shutter speed & aperture for when you use manual exposure mode. I find this irritating, & for me, it is the main driver to go to the ten-series bodies......but for astro it would not bother me so much as I'd be operating under laptop control anyway.

The other consideration would be video. The later canon's have it, & the 550 & 600 have a crop video mode - now these features would come in handy if/when you wanted to image planets & use registax to combine frames of video into a superior still image.

The very latest Canon 600d also has an articulated screen - that would be a desirable feature for astro if/when you are note connected to a laptop.

......the 60D also has this & of course the twin control wheels, & the video modes, so this would be on my short list.

......just a few more things to consider - as if the decision was not hard enough as is.....

[Crunchard]

More to ponder indeed - one of the drivers is (unfortunately) cost.

Top end I will have about £400 to spend - unless someone wants to pay me £500 for my StarTravel 102?

...

[Vargojones]

The Nikon D3100 doesn't apply any image cleaning if you shoot in RAW, only when in JPEG.

[jonathan]

I purchased a Canon 1000d as my first DSLR, having used film before that (still enjoy shooting slide, nothing quite like it!)

I have used it a little bit for astro stuff, far easier than film. A few things put me off the Nikons - size, weight, no optical viewfinder (this was in about 2000, don't know if all Nikon DSLRs are like that), and poor low light performance of a Nikon hybrid camera I had previously compared to a Canon compact of the same era.

The key points for me are still weight and size, I wouldn't want to have to balance a large heavy Nikon atop or on the end of my telescope. The Canon 1000D uses a tough plastic body so is extremely light, and the IS function is a part of the lens instead of in the camera so it's easy to remove completely by using a different lens (there's also a switch on the lens which makes it very easy to turn off); I have heard that the Nikons have IS permanently installed in the camera body on the models that have it.

I asked a sales assistant in Jessops what made some camera bodies so much more expensive than others, the answer he gave was that they are usually tougher, they will continue to work under more extreme conditions, and generally take more abuse. I can understand the need for a robust camera for a member of the press, for example, who may be jossling with a crowd of other press photographers or out in the desert covering a war zone. Of course there are other factors too such as shutter response speed, memory write speed, and extra features such as spot metering, but for the amateur these are largely not necessary.

[LDUNN1]

Vargo, thx for the confirmation/correction ref the Nikon now not point in raw. I knew it used to be an issue, sounds like it's now a non issue.

Jonathon, I think Nikon Offer dslr's at comparable size and weights to can these days, and their IS system (called VR) is lens based same as canon. I think it is pentax and Sony (ex minolta) that handle IS in body by shifting the sensor. Interestingly, pentax have just launched a hotshoe mount accessory that allows the body to track the stars by using the IS movement in the sensor...now that's innovative!

[nigel999]

I believe that overall the Nikon D3100 is held to be the superior camera. However , the canon sure seems to have its followers for astro work, which must say something.

I'm unsure as to prices for the canon , but the Nikon is currently open to a cash back offers, which should mean that camera and lens is available for a total of around £390 .

Which it has to be said is a pretty good price for such good kit. Good luck with your oncoming choice and expense!

Cheers, Nigel

[Crunchard]

It does look like these two are pretty evenly matched IMHO (and my lack-of-knowledge-on-the-subject view).

I think it will come down to cost.

A friend of mine said I should look at a 2nd-hand EOS 450D as an alternative - he reckons this is a much better camera, and they seem to pop up on fleabay for around £300(ish).

So maybe a better, but older camera is the way to go ... not another dilemma!

Thanks again for all the advice peeps

[Psychobilly]

If you can get a decent 450D then you wont go far wrong...

[pwalsh61]

You don't necessarily need to have a Canon capable of recording video to record video. AstroPhotographyTool has the ability to capture the Live View into a file - effectively turning the Canon into a glorified webcam

[nigel999]

Interesting, there are several EOS 450d's on that particular site right now.

including a couple at least "body only" sales with BIN in the mid to high 200's.

Entirely affordable to modify if ordinary use is not so important.

Cheers, Nigel

[jonathan]

I believe the 450D is the 'Pro' version of the 1000D, it is very similar in capability but has a few extra features and a larger screen.

I stand corrected on the differences between Canon and Nikon, it's been a few years since I bought mine and haven't kept up with current models since.

[Crunchard]

Ok, EOS 1000D on it's way ... if it is rubbish I'll blame all of you

Seriously cheers for the advice.

[LDUNN1]

;-)

......I'm pretty sure it is not rubbish ;-)

[Psychobilly]

If it is sell it is sell it to me cheap

[Crunchard]

Well, I am now the owner of a Canon EOS Rebel XS (the 1000D in English speak).

I couldn't stretch to a new one, so plumped for a refurb which comes with three months warranty.

It all came in a labelled Canon refurb box, so definitely no doubt it being a refurb.

Put simply this kit looks absolutely unused! There are no marks ... anywhere ... card slot, battery slot, hand grip, it is very clean. I was expecting to see something but not a mark can be seen.

I've run off some shots of a little Warhammer battle I was involved in last night, so will attach some later.

So, thanks for all the advice - it looks and feel top drawer

Just got to sort out the Canon T ring, and remote release ready for clear skies

[Psychobilly]

Nice one

I have bought a couple of refurb bodies (especailly if I am going to mod the cam and invalidate the warranty anyway) and the odd refurb lens all have been as new...

Peter...