Funding Cuts in Astronomy

[JimBobs63]

Hi,

I read this article on the BBC News Website this morning. I guess it won't be long before us amateurs are the only astronomers left in the UK....!

BBC News - Physics cuts will damage UK competitiveness, MPs warn

Jim

[russ.will]

Speaking as someone in the private sector that has seen good percentage of his colleagues made redundant due to the recession, I don't see why publically funded projects shouldn't take a hit too. After all, they're only funded by the revenue from industry that actually makes money, rather being one that consumes it.

I see a lot of bitching in the public sector about how hard it is, but they're only now going through the motions that the private sector went through at the beginning of 2008. The public sector is always the last to react and the most likely to assume that someone else should feel their pain. Tough.

Fact is; Given a cut to astronomy or a cut to cancer research, I'll take the former every time. I speak as someone who likes the former and has suffered the latter.

Russell

[Axe]

This planet has become to expensive to live on....and only one species to blame for that! the species thats driven by greed and power.

Sad times

Axe

[John]

I work in the public sector and my organisation (an environmental body) is reducing it's workforce by 32% over the next 3 years.

I'm not "bitching" about it because these savings (which include my job) have to be made and the public sector is one of the few areas that government can directly reduce costs in.

It's bound to impact public budgets for science, the arts and everything else as well though.

As you say Russell, tough choices a have to be made and are being made.

I'm not being political here in any way - it's just a fact of life at the current time.

[FraserClarke]

After all, they're only funded by the revenue from industry that actually makes money, rather being one that consumes it.

I think that is a bit too black and white.

Do you use webpages for your business? Yes? WWW was developed through public funded research (CERN).

Do you use wireless for your business? Yes? That's evolved from technology first developed for radio astronomy

Do you have a GPS in your car? Yes? That's based on basic positional astronomy and orbital mechanics worked out centuries ago by astronomers.

Have you ever had cause to need a CAT scan? I do hope not, but if you do, you can thank publicly funded particle physicists for developing the kind of magnets needed in a CAT scanner.

I'm not going to argue with your priorites for how the government should spend our money. I just want to point out that the relationship between the public and private sectors -- especially when it comes to science -- is not perhaps as one sided as you've made out.

[blackparticle]

I'd suggest everyone write to their local MP and in an attempt to placate their voters, they lobby the government to stump up a few hundred grand to buy a load of 16" dobsonians which they can then donate to the UK amateur astronomy societies.

[virtualpilot45]

Enough talk, scrap the EU bailouts, make a UK Space Administration, and put Brits on the moon/mars!

[blackparticle]

With such a high number and rekindled interest of amateur astronomers in the UK, investment in space is probably one of the few sectors where we can make a significant impact over the coming decades.

One idea I had was that we re-assign 50% of our military capability and budget into a new department, the RSF, Royal Space Force. So rather than this constant development of advanced, albeit rather useless, ground-based vehicles, we just take to orbit... and beyond.

Our capability for "war and defence" will hardly be diminished and it's not like there are that many nations left on Earth worth invading.

Now if only a bunch of astronomers could get together and "fake" a signal from an incoming alien spaceship and convince the governments it's real. That would change things overnight.

[beamer3.6m]

Decrease your military might by 50% and increase your exposure to attack by 100%.

Plus military budgets cover much more than just design of new vehicles, it pays for the food for our troops and the boots they use and bulets they fire. I think we need to keep them equiped for anything.

If astronomy needs to be reduced so be it, it is really a 'want' not a 'need' subject/role.

[blackparticle]

This may be slipping into politics but who in their right mind is going to attack the UK in this modern day and age? Apart from a few localised hot-spots the planet is a remarkably quiet place.

Space can be a far more lucrative prospect than war. Society just has to get over the fear and put the military to a far better use. "Job done" as they would say.

[twotter]

Enough talk, scrap the EU bailouts, make a UK Space Administration, and put Brits on the moon/mars!

Brits on the Moon? My dear sir, I do believe this has already occurred, during the reign of Queen Victoria (gawd bless 'er).

[russ.will]

I think that is a bit too black and white.

Do you use webpages for your business? Yes? WWW was developed through public funded research (CERN).

Do you use wireless for your business? Yes? That's evolved from technology first developed for radio astronomy

Do you have a GPS in your car? Yes? That's based on basic positional astronomy and orbital mechanics worked out centuries ago by astronomers.

Have you ever had cause to need a CAT scan? I do hope not, but if you do, you can thank publicly funded particle physicists for developing the kind of magnets needed in a CAT scanner.

I'm not going to argue with your priorites for how the government should spend our money. I just want to point out that the relationship between the public and private sectors -- especially when it comes to science -- is not perhaps as one sided as you've made out.

I think you make my point for me. All of those were public/government funded projects that were ultimately funded by taxing the private sector. By definition, public funding is a cost, even if the benefits further down the line are to the greater good of all.

I'm pretty sure that GPS should be attributed to the American military though. 5% of the world's population funding 50% of the worlds military spending resulting in a system that still gets confused in cities where you need it most....

At the moment however, we're in a short term problem created by a vision designed to win votes. The pendulum is now having to swing disproportionately far in the other direction to compensate, but like any oscillating system, will eventually settle somewhere in the middle. However, as we were all creaming it at the opposite end of the swing and got used to doing so, industry/ business/public sectors are now being squeezed in a way that they quite frankly shouldn't have to be.

As a nation, we were disproportionately exposed due to our obsession with owning our own homes which places pressure on property values that would confuse a German. However the banks reliance on the upward trend of property values (in the short term) was blinkered in the extreme. Essentially, they were paying people to own houses, which when you say it out loud, simply sounds mental. I mean, you have a customer that can't be arsed to stop going down the pub to save 5% of a properties value plus £1500 of solicitors fees, so your reaction is to loan them 110% of the properties value? Madness.

We bought our first two up/two down Victorian terrace having saved a deposit and fees as recently as 1997 and had the market stuck to that entirely reasonable level of criteria, wouldn't be suffering in the way it is now.

The politics of the day do have relevance, mainly because no governing party will turn down the chance to ride a wave, but the culture of the city bears scrutiny. A lot of the traders are physics/engineering/maths students (that could have been doing science, but decided to earn money instead) who obviously can grasp complex number systems. The hours and pressure under which they work means they will have made a serious amount of cash and/or developed a coke habit by the time they are thirty, but ultimately they will be spent and off the trading floor. This means that ten years from now the floor won't have a memory of what a recession feels like and so the risks will start to be taken again and that means....

Russell

[hunterknox]

Fact is; Given a cut to astronomy or a cut to cancer research, I'll take the former every time.

Zero funding for astronomy then?