Tiny Clanger

I understand your urgency, but don't want you to waste your money : yes, that motor tracks, but I think ( I'm making an educated guess here, having no direct experience of it) it will have specific fittings which only work with the Celestron mounts specified. There's a similar one which works only with skywatcher eq2 mounts https://www.firstlightoptics.com/all-mounts-motors/ra-single-speed-motor-drive-for-eq-2.html If your 'scope mount looks like the one I posted an amazon link to, that is an alt az mount anyway, a single motor can only work to track on an equatorial mount I'm afraid. If your telescope has a standard rail type fitting it would be possible to move it to a new mount, but I don't think it does. I can't see any chance of getting something new any sooner than the dates FLO have quoted you : every UK retailer is in the same position, literally waiting for the ship to come in ... Perhaps your only chance of anything quicker is to trawl secondhand sales, keeping in mind the exact models of mount which can be used with the cheap celestron and skywatcher motors as add ons. If you see something which looks likely, come back here with exactly what it is, and I'm sure we can help with if it is likely to be worthwhile. Heather

I came across this guy's site when researching which mak to buy, he has a page devoted to the pronto mount which you may find helpful: http://www.waloszek.de/astro_sw_az_pronto_e.php I already had a manfrotto 55, with a max weight rating of 11kg, so bought the az5 which (on a proper tripod rather than the alu skywatcher thing) is rated at 9kg. I wanted to be future proof, and have always been an advocate of the 'over do the tripod, it can never be too steady' school of thought in photography, apparently it has carried over to telescopes ! Heather

Discussed extensively yesterday on this thread . The tripod is the limiting factor.

As I understand it (i.e. not very well, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong, I like to learn from my mistakes !) just tracking alone means the 'scope mount has a motor which slowly rotates the 'scope to keep what you already found in view. All you need to do is line the mount up (I presume to point north ) Go-to is more complex, it needs you to set it up accurately : you have to tell it what direction it is pointing and whereabouts it is (by giving it your location, and pointing it at some stars and telling it what star is pointing at so it can find them in it's software and orient itself . Obviously this means you need to I.D. and accurately line up some stars yourself ... . It uses this (plus the time) to compute where in the sky an object is, and tries to use it's motors to shift the 'scope to point exactly there. Obviously the more expensive the mount mechanism, the more precise it will be, the better the 'brain' will be, and the more accurately it will point to the object. A go to mount will also track. Just tracking is going to be a cheaper thing to incorporate than go-to & tracking, and a great deal easier to set up quickly. As for the table top nature of the little skywatcher virtuoso I linked to, read down the bullet points, it says "Telescope/Mount attachable to most Prosumer tripods via 3/8” thread" .so if your current tripod has a standard photo tripod to head screw you could put the whole new 'scope on it . If not you may be able to bodge something with a suitable bolt ... failing that, photo tripods are much easier to find second hand than telescopes ! The FLO site reliably has reasonable prices, and with telescopes as rare as rocking horse droppings at the mo., some profiteering is going on elsewhere. But I'd say order from FLO, get the current price and wait (which will be going up they said, as a new price from the wholesaler skywatcher is due soon) If you decide go to is something you need, you can add a handset later, maybe keep an eye open for a used one . If the tracking facility turns out to be all you need, you've saved yourself quite a few ££s . FLO operate a waiting list by date order, so an early order gets you a place in the queue for when the next shipment arrives . They do charge your credit card when you order, but if for any reason at all you change your mind before they sent the kit out, they will refund you immediately. I ordered a 'scope in the autumn and established all this in an e mail conversation. The are very helpful, you could do worse than drop them an email outlining your requirements and asking if they think the heritage virtuoso would be a good choice https://www.firstlightoptics.com/contact.html Heather

If the only tripods you consider are the skywatcher ones, I think that's the best plan. However, even big strong portable photo tripods are usually aluminium ( weight and corrosion factors are big for these things which get carted around and used with their feet in wet places ) . There's the inevitable trade off between sturdiness (big & thick diameter tubes) and portability (light weight) . Studio photography with big cameras more often uses a smaller foot print camera stand from a specialist manufacturer like Cambo or Linhof . These are an extremely heavy base plate with a metal column, bit like a 'scope pier but moveable ( the company I worked for had one, it had locking wheels on the base, which was a good thing as I couldn't lift the thing even slightly to move it) I've never priced a studio stand, but I bet they run into the thousands of ££s Photo tripods are the portable end of the market, I've never owned or used a carbon fibre tripod, but suspect (having sat bored on the fringes of a few heated debates on the relative merits of bike frame materials) that the stiffness and vibration damping properties of the stuff might make it a tripod material almost as good as wood 😀 If the premium bonds come up I'll drop a £k+ on a top of the range carbon fibre gitzo and half that on one of those nice looking Berlebach wooden jobs, and do a comparison ...

OK, as threatened, some low cost and free ways to get dad's manual scope guiding capability upgraded : First, a book which gives a good clear explanation of what will be in the skies of Britain & Ireland in 2021 if it is priced at £6 wait a day or two, before xmas it fluctuated down as far as £3 on occasion. A free, online, monthly offering which does a similar job is the 'sky notes' from Whitby astro soc here there are plenty of similar sites, that is one of the best set out ones I've seen. Plus Whitby is a lovely place 🙂 The Loughton list is a very helpful pdf of targets you might look for, with helpful notes about finding them (and what exactly you are looking at) It divides into bronze, silver & gold categories , bronze objects are the easiest to see. A shorter list , but (as the name suggests) for the UK winter is the two part Moore Winter Marathon here and here It's an old list, but all holds true except for the information about where to look for the planet, which has moved on ! The MWM is less well illustrated than the Loughton List, but if you want something to actually print out and tick off things seen, it's easier on the ink & paper . Something which will be useful to you and Jaden too is planetarium software : there are many online, downloadable and apps available, I like the free stellarium which is online https://stellarium-web.org/ and also has a downloadable version you can use on a laptop or tablet off line . Any such app will be able to show you the sky at your location, in any dieection as you pan around, and at the current time (as well as enabling you to roll the clock forward and see what will be visible tomorrow or next week ) You can switch labels, constellation lines and pictures on and off , click on objects to get names, and switch it to a red light view to preserve your eye's dark adaptation so you can use it at the telescope. It will help you identify what is where ! That should keep you busy for a while ! Heather

Saturn's rings should be do-able (not at the moment mind, but when the planet is better placed (July , unless you let on that it can be seen in the dawn sky before then, in which case you are going to get woken up at all hours and dragged outside ... don't tell him !) A tiny but distinct ringed planet was the first thing I saw with it when I bought my first proper 'scope. , which is a 150mm reflector. Also some deep sky objects like the Pleiades and Orion nebula can be satisfactory targets in any telescope, including the one you already have, I think with a bit of help you could get a lot more out of the 'scope you have while waiting for something good to come up within your budget. I'll post some links and suggestions later ,you have some work to do to catch up with your son ... 🙂 (BTW I see Zermelo has just posted something similar as I type !) I've no experience of go to/ tracking mounts whatsoever, so can't give any advice on them, I have seen folk on here say the little table top virtuoso dobsonians https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/skywatcher-heritage-114p-virtuoso.html are OK for children to use , but the next price point at which you find such a facility is around £300 , and all of these 'scopes will be very basic models , decent kit is not cheap (or if it is cheap , it's probably very poor quality) Have a browse here https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html to get an idea of prices. There has also been some discussion on here about 'push to' set ups where you use a 'phone app and a smartphone mounted on your telescope tube to guide you to manually line the 'scope up with objects , again I've only read about it so leave it up to folk who have experience of using such a system, but it might be a minimal outlay partial solution for you. The problem with second hand is that at the moment supplies of new 'scopes from Chinese factories have been hit by the pandemic just like everything else, consequently used stuff gets snapped up very fast, and because of the demand, prices asked can be quite high. Still, if you get an idea of what to look for (or to avoid) here, you can be prepared for whatever might pop up as available locally. Heather

Reading the OP , I suspect that Jaden will not be left alone outside at any time, and is not able to operate a telescope independently. I'm not a fan of go to myself, preferring a manual mount and charts etc, but it's my suspicion that it may be the tracking which is important here : I'm guessing a scenario where dad has to get the target in the eyepiece, and then Jaden takes his turn to view, by which point the target has drifted, and dad has to step in again. I may be wrong about the situation , but if that is the case, I can see why the OP says tracking is a must for them.

Just for reference, is this the 'scope you have been using so far (or something similar ) ? https://www.amazon.co.uk/National-Geographic-700-Reflector-Telescope/dp/B007WRYAVE If so is Jaden happy with the format, looking in the side , and presumably standing to do so ? Heather

Hi and welcome Mike and Jaden, you are not wrong, the possibilities are endless, and the technology appears complex, but essentially all telescopes are an arrangement of lenses and/or mirrors , don't let them frighten you ! As others have said, the more information we have the better targeted our help can be, so if you answer Zermelo's questions that will help. I'll add one more of my own how tall is Jaden ? I don't ask how old he is :I'm an ex primary teacher, and I can read between the lines of what you say .... Heather

You could keep a look out for something like a Manfrotto 55 series tripod , or a 190 (slightly less carrying capacity, think that one is about 7kg from memory ) going cheap secondhand locally ... you only need the leg section, so may get a bargain as most photographers would rather buy one with a suitable photo head included in the deal. Bit of a perisher to box up and post, so local second hand shops, camera shops which take kit in part exchange, or collection of local online deals might strike lucky. Does your eq have a standard photo tripod screw ? If so, you could shift it to better tripod legs if any happened to become available, and think about an alt az if the eq still didn't work for you . Heather

My heart says the reflector will give you more light collecting ability, but my head hears your priorities of portability and low maintenance , and says you should choose the refractor . This will surprise anyone who knows my usual suggestions ! Please , as others have said, do not buy any telescope on a cheap eq mount, the 102 is available on a simple alt az mount http://www.skywatcher.com/product/bk-1025az3/ There is a review of it from a couple of years ago here hope that helps . Heather

My thoughts when looking at the az mounts to pick one for the 127 mak were that I definitely wanted slo mo controls because of the maks small field of view, so the az4 was not looking good, also I was happy to use my own tripod, so the bundled tripod (no option to not buy it) would be a wasted £100 or so. For a wider field instrument, and for someone who doesn't already have a suitable tripod it looks as if it would be a good sturdy+ option. The 'pronto' does have slo mo, but the capacity is just 3kg , a bit too close to the mass of the 127 mak to make me confident in it as a stable base, and again, I think that mount is only available with the tripod , and in this case it is the alu. one. So, for me, the choice was az5 , or nearly double the price for a sky tee ... az5 it was ! Heather

They still are, I bought just the az5, there's a drop down menu option for mount only or + the alu tripod . Heather

Yep, it is a far heftier chunk of solid aluminium than the illustrations make it appear to be : that disc you see at the top with the skywatcher logo on is 6cm thick, and the two curvy arms which connect to it fix to opposite sides of it, which is not at all obvious in pictures. I don't have the stat. to hand, but I was most surprised by the weight of the thing

I looked at both az4 and az5 carefully having a tripod already to put whatever I bought on. The anomaly of the az5 quoted limit is down to the weakness of the alu tripod, the statistic for the head alone is that it's rated for 9kgs . Which is why I went with the extra money for the az5. My tripod is rated for 11kgs, so I don't imagine I'll ever need to upgrade either ! What I find weird is that the lighter duty tripod gets bundled with the heftier head, and vice versa .... Heather

I started out with an inherited Celestron 114 newt on a truly awful cheap eq and that has put me off cheap eq mounts very effectively. The budget eq looks the part, I'll give you that.

There's a reason I bought a RACI And a Rigel quickfinder, And a little electronic level ... 😼 Heather

In all the clear and delightfully good seeing nights we are all surely due any day now 🤞 (in case that emoji looks like a damaged duck to you, it claims to crossed fingers,) you can try your mount in both modes and see what you think with your current kit. Mind you, I think you've already answered your own question when you said ' For simplicity' : you've not been dissatisfied enough to try it in EQ mode yet. 🙂 My personal take on this is that an alt az is both more intuitive to use, and a simpler bit of engineering. Therefore alt az can give you a sturdier mount and better bang for your buck at a particular price point. Look at the skywatcher non go to mount prices, EQs start around where their most expensive alt az mounts top out . On the other hand, if you find twiddling two slo mo controls rather than one annoying, or plan to win the lottery and dive into the astro photo money black hole, EQ is no doubt the way to go. Heather

I'm not particularly interested in double stars, so have not deliberately looked for many except as a passing fancy when I was moonwatching, but when I did , the mak was fine. I can't compare it with double stars in the dob , because I've never tried for any with it ! I do rather like globular and open clusters though, The brightest ones can be seen with the mak from my suburban light polluted back garden, but I've had much more success with the dob. that extra aperture seems to make quite a difference, not to mention the wider field making my useless finding skills less of a handicap.. There are somewhat darker rural areas 3km or so away which I'm keen to spend some quality observing time at with both 'scopes, but going out without a really important reason at the moment just isn't on . Heather

Any chance you might get on to an online retailer and order a rain gauge please ? 🌧️

The 150 dob 127 mak combo works for me. I bought the latter specifically to use on planets/ the Moon, and am very happy with it. I already had a very sturdy photo tripod, so bought an altaz5 which is hefty and very smooth in use . I think there is probably little effective difference when looking at the Moon & brighter planets between the 102 and 127, if I'd not already owned that tripod, I'd have gone for a 102 on a steel tripod with the az5 or 4 head to make best use of my money, there's so much magnification possible I think a really steady platform is vital.

As I understand it, aperture and focal length are characteristics which are more practical to use and easier, (and therefore cheaper) to produce in certain types of telescope, hence the emphasis on 'scope types. in discussions. E,G , biggest aperture frac. I can see from a quick look on FLO is a 150mm for £2.7k , At the exact same price there's a 280mm Schmidt-Cassegrain, or for about £300 less there's a 406mm reflector (all on different mounts, first is EQ, other two are go to .) Not so easy for me to speedily see and compare focal lengths (which are less directly related to price than aperture I suspect) , but there are obvious practical, physical limitations on reflector focal length ( yes, I've see those photos of insanely long home made dobs which require a head for heights and an industrial stepladder to look into, but I'm thinking about commercially viable consumer 'scopes here !) . The cassegrain design is a way around the physical long tube problem : just do some origami on the light path ... are there any short focal length SCTs or Maks ? I'd like to know . Heather

My eyes saw 'starhopper' , for some reason my brain said 'spacehopper' and I thought, that's not going to keep a newt collimated ! 🙂

One word : hovercraft