josefk

Cool stuff @PeterC65. I'm after the Veil (as a complete complex) myself with about the same amount of aperture as you have just used and with a 24mm EP. I couldn't see any hint Monday night but i had forgotten to carry my O-III so a self inflicted loss :-). My bag is more properly packed now for the next opportunity!

@John 100% and i get a particular kick out of doing it with small scopes for some reason. Definitely attempting to "beat the system".

i think it is a genuine observing pursuit anyway (never mind my "eye test" / "sport" comment) because the observing task in these challenges is in fact really intense and considered - loads of time to contemplate what you are really doing when you hold an absolutely massive planet out of the FOV to put a little bit of dark space between it and another massive solar system object even if that massive object is only a faint point for our eye. I mean ...wow.

4 hours ago, johnturley said:

What size scope was that with, the other night I found Rhea fairly easy with my 150mm Refractor, but could could only spot Dione through my 14in Newtonian. As mentioned earlier, in the 1970's I found Rhea, Tethys, and Dione, and occasionally Enceladus, fairly easy through my then 10in Newtonian, but then Saturn was higher up, my eyesight better, and skies less light polluted. 

Hi John - those three on Monday evening were with 85mm of aperture. i have seen other moons with bigger scopes on different nights but this week i'm not sure bigger scopes would have helped me because the other moons have been extremely close in to the body of Saturn (at least on Sunday and Monday). Hyperion was/is further out but that is too faint my apertures.

5 hours ago, John said:

As I have been comparing a number of different short FL eyepieces over the past couple of nights, it has been the extent of the glare / scatter of light around Saturn that has been the main thing that varied in their performance. None were notably bad in this respect but I noticed that the abbe orthos and, a little surprisingly, the 6mm and 4.7mm Ethos that consistently showed the least. 

I've found glare / scatter control has been a significant factor in being able to see faint planetary moons close to their parent planets disks and also cracking challenges like spotting the "Pup" star, Sirius B. 

I'm looking forward to having a look at Neptune's moon Triton and trying to spot Uranus's brightest 4 moons when those planets are better positioned from my back yard. 

As a rule I don't like to turn my observing into an "eye test" type sport but it is funny and surprisingly satisfying actually to try and wring the best out of everything for these little challenges and to work out what is the best tool for the job. 

I'm encouraged by your seeing Triton with 130mm of aperture. I have a list of solar system objects that would be feasible for my kit and i am slowly ticking them off. Triton is still "to do".

it was good sport last night trying for Saturn's Moons. Rhea, Titan and Lapetus were observed. Rhea needed Saturn holding out of the EP  FOV to first see it then i could pick it up with a little averted vision even with Saturn in the FOV. I couldn't repeat the trick with Tethys, Enceladus or Dione. A good test of reflections and glare in the EP barrel 😉

I'm looking forward to your feedback on that @Littleguy80. Though on one hand i'm quite keen - anything that improves the view (or the chance of actual detection) of an ephemeral target like a comet where you may only get a few attempts at it has got to be good - on the other hand i'm in two minds considering how often (or not it would get used)...

Sounds great - these type of vivid views last along time in the memory!

ditto what Neil says re. M31 - i have a new scope i want to observe M31 with but it is appearing very tiny these past two nights (i.e only the smallest brightest part of the core is showing). I was mildly disoriented on the first night and thought initially i could only see M32 and M31 had disappeared it was that small!

A few greatest hits with the new scope last night recorded over here: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/412937-takahashi-fsq-85edx-visual/#comment-4410232

With the highlight of the night - Ganymedes' transit out of Jovian occultation sketched over here: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/413336-jupiter-ganymede/#comment-4410080

First proper first light last night for the new born baby. We are going to get on like a house on fire. 😀

It wasn't a grab n go session so i had a full gamut of EPs to play with. The evening was a beautiful warm evening were observing was a pleasure even if the sky wasn't totally crystal clear. I estimate an AL transparency grade of 6 using the stars in UMi and good seeing (Pickering 7) even while there were waves of warm bouncy air apparent for moments when observing Saturn, Jupiter and the moon was washing the sky out in a southerly direction more than the visibility of the stars in UMi would suggest.

The whole session was a kit shakedown session so not a particular curated list of targets.

First up starting at Vega hopping over the Coathanger (finder only) to Albireo. Albireo was lovely at x56 and x113 but honestly it wasn't't the most aesthetic view of this pair that i've ever had. It wasn't yet properly dark and i think the blue and lemon here are prettier together at lower magnifications. Working a touch outside or inside of focus strengthened a bronze view of the primary and middle blue hue of the secondary. Interestingly (i think) inside of focus with the TOE showed a slightly softer diffraction pattern than outside of focus. I'm not sure what contribution my prism diagonal is making with this faster scope so i will check this again more thoroughly another night. The Ethos was perfect either side.

As it got darker nearby M56 and M57 were next. Both nice and clear and enjoyable at x56. The Ring dimmed but stayed enjoyable at x113. Both revealing more than i have seen before with this amount of aperture. No hint of colour in the Ring but decent (subtle) brightness variation across the smokey circle.

From here it was a short jump back the Epsilon Lyra 1 & 2. Nether split at x56. Epsilon2 split nicely and clearly at x90 (Tak 5mm LE), and widened with a TOE 4mm for x113 and TOE 3.3mm for x136. At x136 the classic car headlights with a single diffraction ring (each) was apparent.Very nice! Epsilon1 didn't split at x90, the split was detectable at x113 and was clear at x136. This is a step up in star splitting capability versus my previous grab n go and exactly what i was looking for.

From here  (via a wasted detour to Andromeda - i didn't beat the moon washing this whole direction out) i dropped in on Saturn. Only my second observation this year. Superb. A lovely sharp lemon coloured rendition with hints of bands/belts in the northern hemisphere (also an upgrade in resolution capability over my previous GnG). Titan was clear and obvious but with a bit of time spent looking around i could also identify and observe Lapetus at some distance removed from Saturn (as part of a chevron asterism pointing back at Saturn). SSP has Lapetus at mag11.2. There was  a little glare around Saturn itself but TBH the moon was also glaring naked eye at the same time so i attribute this glare to atmosphere rather than kit. All the other moons of Saturn were masked by and travelling in this glare i think. On this showing (and it wasn't a perfect night for testing) i didn't see any discernible difference in resolution/detail/colour on Saturn between an 8mm Ethos plus power mate for 4mm equivalence and the 4mm TOE. The powermate combo gave a longer drift time for sure (welcome) but it was also really long and unwieldy (VERY unwelcome). It really wasn't a great night for testing as i couldn't detect the Cassini division in any combo so the observation on EPS is practically worthless.

Finally i panned over to Jupiter. I've posted in the sketching forum that it was immediately apparent Jupiter had a dimple on the North eastern limb. It was Ganymede travelling out of occultation and it was a super unexpected and a pleasure and a joy to watch (a few minutes earlier or later and i would have missed it). Jupiter showed momentary flickers of the STB/NTB and this was the third "upgrade" capability of the night over my previous little scope (i've only seen the NEB/SEB in a small scope before).

All in all a fantastic session, a relief to be out after a long hiatus, it was lovely and warm, the scope was everything i hoped and the fluid head mount is going to be terrific once it becomes second nature to dial in a tad more or less counterbalance when changing EPs.

First "dark" session last night since the last week of May!!! (excluding Venus in the daylight/twilight). Also the shakedown session for new kit - Takahashi FSQ-85 on a Manfrotto MVH612 video head. I am going to really get on with both 🙂 though i probably need to find a yoga class if i'm going to keep trying to get behind that straight through finder!

@RobertI - i'm having glasses trouble - my writing/plotting IS scruffy but not THAT scruffy if i can see the end of the pen where it meets the paper properly 🙂

Bit of a scruffy one this and an unlooked for observation overall while having an otherwise "kit shakedown" type session.

When i swung to Jupiter last night it was immediately apparent it had a "pimple" on its north eastern limb. I suspected a moon going into or coming out of occultation so settled in to watch. Checking SkySafari it was indeed Ganymede coming out of occultation. I wear a mechanical watch so my timings are probably not super precise (and i didn't think to use my iPad till too late) but i recorded clear separation at ~23:35...23:37 BST and probably nearer to 23:35. 

NEB/SEB were prominent and flickering thick and thin. The NTB/STB intermittently flickered into view (the NTB most sharply). The southern pole had a hint of darkening but the view was bright overall so it was very subtle. The seeing was not as good as the apparent score would suggest. Seeing on a micro level was fine but there where "bigger lumps" of boiling air passing through the FOV.

This is with an 85mm apo and orthoscopic eyepiece for x113.

Great read and sounds like a super productive 1st light. Thanks for posting.

Super! @Stu1smartcookie - i'm not sure why we don't see more use of fluid heads for astro - i think they're a brilliant option for smaller scopes and especially in this wide field topic where panning around is such a nice part of the experience. . 

Nice looking set-up @Stu1smartcookie - what mount is it you are using? Fluid head? Cheers

8 hours ago, The60mmKid said:

Has observing changed your relationship with the world? How can one see a galaxy with one's own eyes and remain unaltered? And yet, how often do we discuss this aspect of the endeavor?

Observing, for me, isn't a hobby. It's a connection with the source of my being, a reminder of who (or better, what) I am, and a glimpse into the infinite, beautiful unknowability of life. It stuns me to look at the Trapezium in Orion and know that those stars were born after humanoids began walking on this planet. To look at the Whirlpool Galaxy and let my mind even try to fathom the spacial and temporal scale of such a confluence...

Does this matter? Or should we stick to debating ortho vs. Nagler?

What a brilliant post. It may be bit tricky to publicly share exactly how we feel about observing and what we feel while observing but probably you put it very poetically for a few of us. You do for me - thankfully I’m often awestruck and often in wonder.  

I find it existentially very reassuring to consider how insignificant and brief we are compared to the phenomena we observe. Very centering for what’s important really (probably not as much as we think and definitely not as much as we may worry about)
 

Discussing kit is safely less revealing of ourselves 😉so i’m going to get back to the wide field scope thread. 

Delightful and useful looking scope @The60mmKid and great story. I hope you DO find yourself under dark skies again to repeat the experience. 

Really really like your isolated Bettinus at the top there @mikeDnight and your Cyrillus with just a suggestion of context. I also really like your rendering of the Alpine Valley - very subtle. Very nice.

@Stu I believe i have seen most of the length or elongation of the Eastern part but still without really seeing the Western part at all beyond vague "possible detection". At my next attempt i can get a bigger exit pupil than previously and I can get a bit more surrounding sky too and that may help but if it doesn't then i think i need a bit more help from a darker sky - a trip down the road to the Norfolk coast i think. 

Not that i've been able to see the whole Veil complex so far in my local spots (with any scope) but i live in hope (the outer white circle is my finder at 6.3 degrees)...

I'm over the moon with my new FSQ-85. With a 31NT5 i can achieve 5.35 degrees at x15:

...but i'm more likely to stay a little lighter (for carrying purposes not mounting issues) and use a 24mm Panoptic more often for 3.44 degrees at x19:

With the exit pupil of either i'll need to use a Dioptrx to correct astigmatism and it's that astigmatism that has begun to spoil binocular views i would have otherwise used at these kind of wide FOV's 😞

Since becoming a Swarovski convert for bird spotting many years ago "wide" also has to equal "flat" for me hence the Petzval in this slot.

I didn’t know till August either 😚

Nice report Rob and great targets. I always enjoy reading these because other than the brighter side of the Veil i have zero luck detecting them where i live. I think i need to make a well timed trip to darker skies in nearby North Norfolk. There's a nice piece about Williamina Fleming in Augusts Sky & Telescope re. Fleming's Triangular Wisp. Fleming discovered it examining glass plates in Pickerings massive spectroscopic survey programme. Pickering correctly gave her discovery credit but his name stuck to it. 

Thanks for the feedback @Concordia000. i would definitely be interested in your thoughts once you've had chance to look through the baby Q a little bit but only if you find nice things  - don't tell me if in your recollection the NP-101 was better! 🙂 

My use case is to carry my gear on foot for 300...400 meters and set up. Everything has to go in one trip - scope, EP's tripod, mount, stool, sketching gear, ipad or atlas. 

Everything is balanced - if the scope gets longer the tripod needs to be set taller (so possibly needs to be heavier) and mount does need to be heavier...the EP swings through more arc so the stool needs to be taller etc. etc. I fear it would be easy to get carried away then this particular kit would no longer be optimised for its primary use case.

I think (from experience) my practical limit is 7 or 8kg in each hand and a small satchel. Anything more becomes an uncomfortable trek.

BTW i had a super brief first light on the moon Thursday. i know i'm in business.