SwiMatt

I do enjoy hearing about Takahashis and other marvels, but for that kind of scope I would need to renounce other plans I have in life (or get a mortgage), so it's definitely not in the cards as my second telescope. It's up there among the best, and my wallet isn't big enough... nice to dream though It's amazing to see the love that people have for small refractors. This is going to be a tough choice for sure. All in all, the quality and pleasure of use of small apos make it feel like the way to go. And please keep discussimg, I just got the popcorn out

You're describing the exact type of experience I hope to get by buying this type of scope, this is encouraging Now the only challenge is to not let the "mean" people on this forum convince me to go straight for the 4" apo that would make the Mak redundant

Yeah the weight of a 4" is a bit of a turn off: at 3.2 kg, the Mak is great but already on the heavier side for a truly portable set up (especially when travelling - I do have access to better skies from time to time, but meed to fly). I see lots of advantages in getting down to 72 (or even 60?? Your passionate speech didn't fall on deaf ears @MalcolmM). But it's a lot more money for something similar in weight and portability to a ST80 or ST102, which is why I'm loving to hear all your positive experiences. It seems worth it. Now that I think about it, I have yet to hear someone complain about small apos...

Exactly the kind of discussion I need! Keep it coming! I might have to wait longer and streeeeeetch my budget for a 4" apo, the Askar looks HOT

Yeah... I tried M33 in decent Bortle 4 conditions one night with great transparency, but it was a fool's errand Tough tough target, but great session!

I expected this to be the kind of discussion I would find all over the forum, but weirdly enough nothing that answered my doubts came up by searching old threads. I regularly see that the marketing for APOs is targeting astrophotographers, but I understand that they are lovely scopes for visual astronomers as well. I have been thinking for a bit now to buy a small aperture refractor (<= 4") to complement the great views I get with the Mak 127: I have been missing the wide views necessary to frame large star fields and the larger open clusters. My first thought was to get a small achro, like a StarTravel 102, but then I realized that, in terms of price, I could stretch my budget and get a smaller aperture APO - say a Sky-Watcher Evostar 72ED. Some of these smaller scopes come with much better quality (not only optics, but e.g. in terms of focuser). The 72ED would also be a very light setup - extremely important for me since I need to be able to put my set up in a backpack. What do I gain from going apo 70-80, compared to e.g. a StarTravel 102? Is this a noticeable difference for a visual-only astronomer (given equal targets)? Am I better off buying better eyepieces for an achro? Would an apo with "basic" eyepieces be a sort of a waste of resources? Would I for example get views with better contrast and detail, even under heavy light pollution? NB: I'm not talking about aperture - I am perfectly aware that 20-30mm of aperture is a huge difference. For fainter objects I already have a 5". I also understand that chromatic aberration can be an issue in achromats, but from many reviews the ST102 has very low CA when used for its intended use (wide field). I know the technical and theoretical differences. Give me your opinions! I want to hear your experience, how do you feel about it?

To add on many good comments on this thread, I don't think you gave a bad answer. Ultimately, you might just have reacted to someone who just "thought about getting a telescope" like you or I think about maybe eating pizza tonight - which is fair. I never give bitter answers to the "laymen". I keep bitterness for SGL But generally, I want to tell them about what moves me, but in an honest way. I don't shy away from the negatives - the long hours, the tiredness the day after, the cold, the frustrating weather, the costs,.... But I makes sure to tell them that for me, any moment I can sit and soak in some photons is worth it, that since I got into the hobby it was never a question whether it was worth it. But then I'm also honest about what one can really see through a telescope (since the question arises naturally): so I tell them that I think of it as a very intellectual hobby, because the views alone, without a context of what one is looking at, are rarely colorful or clear or intrinsically breathtaking. Then they will decide by themselves if they are inspired by it or if they were just hoping to see some Hubble pictures in the eyepiece.

Such beautiful sketches! I wish I could see that many details on Jupiter with my Mak 127...

That's it for me too. 10 minutes 9n my balcony at -10°C, trying to make out the GRS at 166x, were enough to make me fold. I spotted it at one time when the seeing got better for a second, but it wasn't steady enough to keep going without frustration. One could notice though that the SEB shows less contrast than the NEB past the GRS, which was confirmed on this thread a couple of days ago. But it was my only useful planet observation tonight... The highlight of the observing night was without a doubt the beautiful Earthshine that I saw on my way home 5 hours ago

Was just out to check out the Moon but it was a bit low at my latitudes to truly enjoy it (branches in the way). Seeing also did not seem the best. But I got to test my new Moon filter, which works fine. Will go out soon to check out Jupiter without too much hope.

This looks great! Thanks for sharing!

I have a North Face duffel bag (unsure about the model, I can check when I get back home) which is very spacious and opens "from the back", it's filled while horizontal and then carried vertically on my shoulders. I store the telescope with the objective down so I don't have to take apart the star diagonal, and fit my Mak 127 along with the AZ5 mount and my portable stool. Small parts are "loose" on the bottom: there is enough space for the red dot finder and the tripod tray to stay there without being crushed by anything. Finally, the last thing I fit in the bag is the dew shield, flat so that it keeps telescope and mount in their place, offering some structure. But no cushioning in my case: it might be risky, but I feel that as long as I don't run the whole thing feels stable and still, I use separate parts to give structure to the "build". The tripod, I carry on my shoulder, and I'm planning to find a solution to attach it to the side of the bag. Also, I carry the eyepieces and filters in a [removed word] pack. By the way, what I really like of this bag is that on the field I put it down horizontally and I can access the whole content all at once, especially once the telescope is set up: then it become the place where I can leave my Atlas, my binoculars, etc. It's also never really full, so it's easy to find different pieces I need during a session.

Hey RJC, welcome! Your choice will also depend on the sky conditions in your area, in particular when it comes to light pollution. If you're in an area with heavy light pollution, targets like M81 and M82 (Bode's and Cigar galaxy), M27 (Dumbbell nebula) or the Leo Triplet might not be so easy. Most of the suggestions you got are great, but there are other beautiful things that don't often come up in the top 10s Open clusters that are easy enough IMO are M29 and M39 in Cygnus, and M103 in Cassiopeia. Also M35 in Gemini, M36, M37 and M38 in Auriga are among the most beautiful. Globular clusters are always fun to check out, I prefer M15 in Pegasus to M13, but they never disappoint. In this season there aren't many up in the Northern sky unless you want to wake up very early. This is my two cents, I have only a few months under my belt but I wanted to provide a counter to the most famous objects, since I find those often underwhelming in light polluted skies.

Fourth night in a row with no clouds! I set up on my balcony before sunset and just got out for a quick look before dinner. Transparency is awful (Albireo invisible to the naked eye), but also seeing seems bad. I tried to split Epsilon Lyrae at 166x and even focus was very hard to reach. I confirmed this on M29 in Cygnus, which only showed the 7-8 stars of the main pattern, all very faint and barely in focus at 100x. Maybe I will get back after dinner for a short session on Jupiter, but I might prefer a movie, honestly... 😅

Another winter look for those who like the snow.

I just came back from my usual spot in the forest, but tonight it was way too cold for me. I gave up after 50 minutes in the snow at -12°C. I did catch some beautiful views of M42 and of the Christmas Tree Cluster, as well as some details on the surface of Jupiter. The trapezium in M42 was so neat at 166x, stunning view. Can't wait to get out and sketch that (once it gets warmer...). I spent most of the evening on that. The Christmas Tree was a first, it took me some exploration to find it since Monoceros was completely invisible - I had to triangulate with Orion, Gemini and Procyon, it took some estimation and ingenuity. Very nice cluster! I did not see the transit (or better, I did not notice it), but the equatorial bands were very sharp and they were showing some dark puffs. Cool stuff.

Thanks for the suggestion! With 127mm of aperture I don't have too much to work with, so a contrast filter could be a great suggestion. I had not considered buying any filters before upgrading my basic eyepieces, but now it might be a good moment to start looking at them.

I was greedy tonight and I put my Mak outside for a quick look after an evening at my in-laws. Helas, I didn't give it enough time to cool down properly, and/or the seeing wasn't great. Still, I think I managed to see the GRS at 166x, that would be a first. Wouldn't have been able to without knowing where it was so... jury's out on whether I actually saw it 🥲

I thought I had seen something like that. Thanks!

In opposition to the gods' laws, the skies are clear on the same night that my new gear arrived 🤣 I just tested my new UWA 66° 9 mm eyepiece (goldline) with a short session on Jupiter, which was in a nice configuration in the sky with HD13739 masquerading as a fifth satellite. Seeing was decent and at 166x I managed to get the planet into focus without problems. The 66° apparent FOV changes everything in my planetary observation, and the magnification gave me a beautiful view of Jupiter. The great red spot was not on the visible surface, but I think I could see some darker "stripes" between North and South equatorial bands - are these the festoons? I need to get myself a primer on Jupiter surface characteristics! I also pointed the telescope at M31 for a small star-hopping exercise but it remains so underwhelming in these skies...

Second visit by the postman in a few days, I made good use of some sales in our Swedish store (AstroSweden) to get a goldliner to substitute the terrible 10mm that came with the Mak, as well as a Moon filter (hopefully not too dark - but the ND0.6 was not on sale). I threw in a binocular adapter that I grabbed for a few bucks - I was planning to eventually mount my 10x50 anyway. Jupiter might be visible from my balcony later tonight, crossing my fingers

Imagine, some of us only have the G&G setup due to lack of space, observing from apartment complexes, etc... yet we still complain about the weather

Currently, I use a mixed strategy taking place before and during the observation. Before the observation, I make sure to hop on Stellarium and verify how the object I'm looking for is supposed to look like - making the necessary adjustments in my mind to account for light pollution, as well as my limited aperture. A useful thing to try and figure out, is the general shape and superficial brightness of the object: if a galaxy is generally oval (more or less elongated, etc) and a globular cluster is round, this comes particularly useful for open clusters - are the dominant stars disposed in particular patterns? Is it loose? How big is it? Etc. I try to form an abstract idea of what I should be seeing in my 25mm eyepiece. Another thing I try to see on Stellarium is if there will be a moment in the night when the object I'm hunting will be almost dead vertical or horizontal from a bright star - which seems a bit too easy, but it served me well a couple of times. Then, once outside, I use a star atlas to find the sky region where I should point the red dot finder at. From there, I look on the sky atlas for possible notable patterns close to the object: bright stars, but also double stars, asterisms, etc. Then... I just move the field of view trying to cover as much space from the "center" of the red dot, panning left-right, then up, left-right, then up, etc. Unfortunately I own a Mak 127 and it's only equipped for 1.25" gears, which means that even if I bought 32mm Plössl eypiece my field of view will get up to 1.1 degrees tops. Not much for searching "at random" around the red dot. It's a rough method, and it works better and better as I get to know certain parts of the sky. For example it generally takes me 1 minute or less to find M13 or M57 because I'm very familiar with its exact position and it's in an easy configuration with bright stars around, but I have lots of troubles with objects situated in tougher bits of sky such as M27 or M81 (far from bright stars, very dim in my skies, etc). My plan this year is to get a double socket and a RACI finder to add to the RDF to better work with the observed field of stars, as suggested by several members on this forum. And also possibly a small refractor with fast optics for those wide field views - but that will have to compete financially for a better mount to my current setup

The perfect arrival for the current streak of snowfall and cold weather

I'm sorry about your loss @Ian McCallum. I am happy to hear that you get to it again, hopefully it will have the power to help you Just... let's not judge how other people experience grief. It doesn't affect anyone else but them, so refrain from judging and - in particular - commenting on a public forum about it.