Canon 1000D or 1100D

[AlistairHowie]

I'm just about to buy my first DSLR for a try at imaging, and have narrowed the choice down to a Canon 1000D or 1100D. To start with, I don't want to use my laptop, just a camera on a GEM and using a TC80-N3 clone type remote release.

I've got myself confused about mirror lock up. If I want this feature, am I right in saying its only the 1000D which can do this through a TC80-N3 type release cable?

I also know lock up isn't particularly an issue when talking about 5 long ish subs for DSOs, etc but to start with I won't be guiding so my subs will presumably be shorter, hence my wish for lock-up.

And just to throw another spanner in the works, there's alsothe choice of a 600D ... but with more pixels, I guess that would put the noise level up and is not worth the extra cash ... although again without using a laptop the swivel display is appealing. Does the 600D have mirro lock up through a cable release?

Thanks for the help.

[Bizibilder]

The 1000D is no longer in production so that would have to be second hand. Otherwise the 1100D is fine. You can make the mirror lock up using the utilities supplied with the camera (and some others like Astro Photography Tool, I believe) but you have to run the camera via a computer to do this.

[AlistairHowie]

Thanks Bizbilder - 1000Ds are still available - I can get a new one for £339, UK supplier of a non-import, full manufactureres warranty.

So, I think from what you're saying, the 1100D definitely doesn't lock up using a remote release cable.

Do you know for certain if the 1000D does lock up remotely (not with a PC)?

Also, any thoughts on the 600D - probably overkill/sub optimal with the number of pixels, but I do like the idea of the moveable display.

I know that I can't really go wrong with any of the latest Canon's so maybe all these questions are just academic - I'm sure I'll be the bottleneck as far as picture quality is concerend, not the hardware.

[Bizibilder]

The 1000D does lock up without a PC (I have both 1000D and 1100D). Sorry, can't help with the 600D.

[Williams]

I've got a 1100D and wish I'd got the 600D for more mp! you'll want to zoom and crop your images so more mp's the better! Also the 600D has the removable swivel screen, handy for certain angle's attached to your scope or low to the ground on a decent tripod. 7D next for me

[AlistairHowie]

Thanks for that, so one eliminated! So it's now either a 1000D or 600D. I thought more small pixels for AP = greater noise. Does anyone know if the 600D locks up without a PC?

[RikM]

Thanks for that, so one eliminated! So it's now either a 1000D or 600D. I thought more small pixels for AP = greater noise. Does anyone know if the 600D locks up without a PC?

I don't know about mirror lock up with the 600D (I expect it does have that feature). You are right about the pixels though. More is not always better for deep sky AP.

I have a 1000D at home and an 1100D at work. I prefer the 1000D but it's just a personal 'feeling' thing. Probably just that I am more familiar with the older camera. One issue for me though is that I only have CS3 and the RAW plugin for that doesn't support the 1100D RAW image files so you have to use something else (if you want to do that sort of thing).

[AlistairHowie]

One issue for me though is that I only have CS3 and the RAW plugin for that doesn't support the 1100D RAW image files so you have to use something else (if you want to do that sort of thing).

Sorry ... that went completely over my head!!! Can you explain, please?

[RikM]

Sorry

I also use the cameras for daytime pics. I use RAW as the image file type (rather than jpg) because it is an uncompressed file type. It contains all the original image date, colour depth etc. You can't open RAW files in most software directly, you need to convert them first. When you shoot in jpg format, the camera does the converting internally before saving the jpg file, but this means loosing some image quality.

I use the cheapo old version of Photoshop Creative Suite 3 to edit my images. This has a plug-in (optional extra software) that does the converting from RAW. It allows you to mess with the exposure, colour balance, sharpening, saturation etc. even before 'opening' your image in Photoshop. The RAW plug in for CS3 will only work with RAW files from the older 1000D camera. It can't convert RAW files from the 1100D so for daytime pictures, I have to work in jpg from this camera, which is not as good.

There are other RAW converters available. One comes on the Canon utilities disk, but I prefer the one in Photoshop.

Not really a problem if you are only thinking about astro use because you won't be using the camera quite the same way. Nor if you have the newer CS5 version of Photoshop as this will work with the 1100D RAW files as well.

[Williams]

Photoshop CS imaging program requires a software pluggin to view RAW images produced by your canon camera.. CS3 is an older version of Photoshop and doesn't support the RAW pluggin needed to view images made with the Canon 1100D..

[AlistairHowie]

Great explanation(s), thanks.

So now ... just need to decide .... 1000D or 600D ....

I'll see what Gary Honis has to say!

[AlistairHowie]

Nice review here ... Review & Comparison Testing of Canon Digital Rebel T3i (600D) For Astro Imaging - by Gary Honis ... although not sure I understood it all. And still no answer on mirror lock.

Maybe I'll jsut stick with the 1000D ...

[dph1nm]

Note there is a significant difference in pixel size between these cameras:

1000D 5.7um

1100D 5.2um

600D 4.3um

You need to work out what image scale per pixel these will give you on the sky (which will depend on the focal length you are working at) and decide which is best for your set-up. Over 1000mm FL I would say that the 600D pixels are just too small (sub-arcsecond)

NigelM

[Psychobilly]

Photoshop CS imaging program requires a software pluggin to view RAW images produced by your canon camera.. CS3 is an older version of Photoshop and doesn't support the RAW pluggin needed to view images made with the Canon 1100D..

You can use the Free Adobe DNG Convertor to work with newer RAW formats - it will allow you to convert the RAWS into DNG's or TIFF's that can be used in earlier versions of CS

Adobe - Adobe Camera Raw and DNG Converter : For Windows

Or you can use the Canon Digital Photo Professional (DPP) software that came with the camera to convert the RAWs...

Peter...

[iwatkins]

What he said....

I batch convert all my RAWs to DNG as a matter of course now anyway. That way I know I'll always be able to open them in most apps including older versions of PS.

Great little tool and if you convert to DNG you can also embed the original RAW just in case in the future you want to extract them, e.g. if you updated your processing software.

Cheers

Ian

[AlistairHowie]

You need to work out what image scale per pixel these will give you on the sky (which will depend on the focal length you are working at) and decide which is best for your set-up. Over 1000mm FL I would say that the 600D pixels are just too small (sub-arcsecond)

NigelM

This is getting to the edge of my very flimsy knowledge ... so I appreciate the information and your feedback. I'm looking at a f5.5-f7 apo with FL of between 500mm and 800mm. Can you explain the calculaiton I need to make to determine best pixel size/image scale, etc, and help me decide on a camera?

Also, I'm still trying to find out if the 600D allows mirror up lock using a remote cable release .... I'll try Jessops!

Thanks again.

[RikM]

Mirror lock up is selected from the custom settings menu onboard the camera. If the camera supports this feature it will work with the shutter button, onboard timer, remote release, remote timer, a poke with a long stick...whatever.

Field of view Calculator<script src="title2.js"></script>

If you have a look on this site, you can input your camera / scope combination and it will calculate / display your field of view and give you the image resolution per pixel.

[AlistairHowie]

Thanks, Rik.

So doing my calculations on a potential scope purchase #1, an f7 115mm apo, the 660D gives me 1.1"/pixel, the 1000D 1.46". On potential scope purchase #2, a f5.5 92mm apo, the 600D gives 1.76mm and the 1000D 2.33".

So ... you know my next question .... what resolution should I be looking for? I've got every photon counts, so perhaps I missed it in there. All advice gratefully accepted.

By the way, after inputting my numbers, I switched to the visual options on the calculator to see the image. Now that has REALLY confused me. On my laptop, the size of the image is about the size of one of my finger nails when imaging using a dslr and using a 92 or 115mm apo. Is that the sort of image I'll get? Is that normal?

Sorry, I know these are really basic quesitons - please send me elsewhere if I'm in the wrong forum. I think I REALLY need to re-read Every Photon again.

[RikM]

Leave it on imaging view and select the objects and it will show you the field of view you will get with your camera. If you switch to visual view you need to select eyepieces rather than camera sensors or it looks all wierd.

Someone did quote an optimum resolution but I can't remember what it was. Sopmething about 1.5 - 2 " per pixel is about right. Less than 1" per pixel and you start to run into problems. My 150P and 1000D give me 1.6" per pixel which is about right.

[dph1nm]

Someone did quote an optimum resolution but I can't remember what it was.

People mutter about having pixels about half your typical FWHM, but I would worry more about the tracking. The smaller your pixel size in arcsecs the more accurately you have to track to avoid non-round stars.

NigelM

[RikM]

Forgot to mention that some of the object images on 12dstring look pretty small because they don't show the surrounding sky. In your image, you shouldn't get the big black border but stars and things filling in the rest of the frame

[Spikey]

I'll mention processing whilst we are on the subject of 1100D's. If you intend to utilise deep sky stacker then I believe the current production version doesnt support the 1100d raw file format.

[AlistairHowie]

So ... just a quick update ....

I spoke to Jessops - giving out duff information saying MLU is available on the 1100 ... which an internet search confirms definitely isn't the case. No surprise there, then.

Next up, Andy Ellis at Astronomiser - so much more helpful, explained about sensitivity of the cameras, etc and I came off the call pretty convinced my purchase is going to be a 1100D. Less noise, more sensitive than the 1000D, less heavy than the pixel crammed 600D. I've also decided mirror lock up isn't an issue, based on what people say on this and other forums, so I've got that out of my system now :-)

And just as I'm about to pull the trigger, Spikey tells me DSS doesn't support 1100 RAW files!!! I would have thought that RAW was a standard format, but silly me. Ok, clearly not a deal breaker, there's obviously workarounds/conversions. Can someone please tell me the other capable software packages that I can use to stack and process 1100D images?

Thanks yet again!

[Psychobilly]

The latest Beta of DSS supports the 1100D.. and is freely available for download

[AlistairHowie]

The latest Beta of DSS supports the 1100D.. and is freely available for download

Fantastic. 1100D it is then, order going in tomorrow.

Thanks everyone!