Finding objects

[RichD]

Hi all,

I'm very new to astronomy so these questions might seem really stupid.

So far I've managed to align my scope fairly well as I was able to track Jupiter using only RA but I'd like to start looking for Messier objects.

From what I can understand reading the telescope instructions, I should be able to find an object from its star position, but does the 'scope need to be perfectly aligned to attempt this? I've read about the star drift method.

Also, using a Skywatcher 130, how far up the apparent magnitude scale would I be able to go?

If I can't see an object with the naked eye, and my scope isn't perfectly aligned, will I find it? Is it a matter of perseverance?

The reason I ask is that I tried to find Uranus but found it impossible, even knowing it's very close to Jupiter at the moment and that I should be able to see it with the naked eye (maybe I need an eye test?). I have a red dot finder which seems fairly well aligned, should I be using a finderscope?

I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid but I'm very new to the hobby.

Thanks for your help,

[oldfruit]

Hi, there are numerous free finder charts online or in astronomy magazines that should help you to find Uranus and any other planet that is visible from your location.

With your scope you should be able to find all Messier objects. It just takes time and patience sometimes as some objects are faint.

Don`t think for one minute it is your fault as i am sure we have all been in the same situation to start with. I know i have:D.

[Doc]

Firstly the setting circles on manual scopes are not very good and normally not accurate enough to find objects.

Goto scopes are a different matter and if set up right are pretty accurate.

I'm afraid it's the old adage "practise makes perfect" and with finding objects it certainly does.

[RichD]

Thanks for the help guys, I'll have to keep trying and keep studying the charts. I've downloaded Stellarium so that will keep me busy for a while

[delsix]

You're not alone, failed miserably to find m31 the other night. Pleiades was beautiful tho and reassuringly easy to find

[Ouroboros]

RichD - I'm a relative beginner too and I must say finding an object can be very frustrating. I like to keep my binoculars to hand because, even if I can't see what I'm looking for by eye, I can usually see it through the bins. So I hunt down the object starting with stellarium, then my bins, my finder scope and finally the telescope.

I have managed to set up the setting circles on a couple of occasions, but frankly I've found them more trouble than they're worth.

[RichD]

You're not alone, failed miserably to find m31 the other night. Pleiades was beautiful tho and reassuringly easy to find

I was trying to find M31 too, and failed miserably. Will try to find Pleiades next time.

RichD - I'm a relative beginner too and I must say finding an object can be very frustrating. I like to keep my binoculars to hand because, even if I can't see what I'm looking for by eye, I can usually see it through the bins. So I hunt down the object starting with stellarium, then my bins, my finder scope and finally the telescope.

I have managed to set up the setting circles on a couple of occasions, but frankly I've found them more trouble than they're worth.

Thanks for the advice, I think I'll invest in a finderscope as I reckon it might be the best way for a beginner. I need a new pair of binoculars too as my current pair are extremely old and next to useless.

[AndyG63]

Hi all,

Also, using a Skywatcher 130, how far up the apparent magnitude scale would I be able to go?

Hi Rich - you'll get stars down to about mag 13.3 or so if the sky's dark.

Andy

[RichD]

Hi Rich - you'll get stars down to about mag 13.3 or so if the sky's dark.

Andy

Thanks very much

[Astronutjob]

Hello Rich, i found the book Turn left at orion, really good for finding objects and getting your way around the night sky when i was starting out, it gives you easy to follow steps on how to find objects, what they should look like, best time of the year too see them, whats the best equipment to use ie bins or scope,and best eye pieces etc to use.

Its a must have for a begginer, untill you become better at finding your way round as you progress. If you dont have the book a planishere will help, I use an app on the iphone called Star map pro, which i find very usefull although this costs about £11 i think. Hope this Helps!

[Doc]

Hi Rich - you'll get stars down to about mag 13.3 or so if the sky's dark.

Andy

With perfect seeing. I have trouble at times seeing Mag 14 stars with 16" of sperture.

[pvaz]

The star hoping method doesn't need any device or gadget. It takes a simple locating chart, some knowledge and a lot of patience at 1st.

Here are a few pointer:

1) Be calm and relaxed about it, take your time.

2) Prepare in advance. Get 1 or 2 locating charts for the constellations that will be visible. You can check the visible constellations in stellarium and get the charts here.

3) Locate the constelation where the object is, naked eye.

4) identify the brightest star close to it and locate it in the sky.

5) identify other close by stars and imagine lines and triangles between them. See on the chart where does the object sit in relation to these lines/shapes.

6) now use the scope or binos to point at that location. Point as best as you can, take your time. When you feel confident you got it right sweep the are with a low power EP looking for a faint smudge. Then center it and increase mag.

Step 6 can be incredibly easy if you use a red dot finder or, better yet, a telrad finder. Standard finders can make it pretty hard to actually point the scope to the spot in the sky you've located.

PS-> The best of this method is that you end up memorizing where the objects are and soon enough it becomes a matter of seconds for you to locate any spot where an object is (naked eye) and then point whatever scope or binos at it. It's pretty easy once you get the hang of it. The less light pollution you got, the more accurate you can be as you'll have more stars to use as reference.

[sixela]

Hi all,

I'm very new to astronomy so these questions might seem really stupid.

So far I've managed to align my scope fairly well as I was able to track Jupiter using only RA but I'd like to start looking for Messier objects.

From what I can understand reading the telescope instructions, I should be able to find an object from its star position,

I know how to use manual setting circles, but I usually star hop even on scopes with equatorial mounts (unless of course they have digital setting circles or GoTo).

but does the 'scope need to be perfectly aligned to attempt this?

Pretty much. Depends on whether you know the star field of your target well enough to kow where to look once you're "there".

Also, using a Skywatcher 130, how far up the apparent magnitude scale would I be able to go?

There's no easy aswer for extended objects.

It depends on the sky background brightness, the size of the object, its surface brightness, and how much you magnify. There are literally books written on the subject (Clarke's "Visual Astronomy of the Deep Sky" is the most in-depth one, but you have to read the comments made by Nils Olof Carlin and Mel Bartels to get the complete picture).

The integrated magnitude of the entire object doesn't tell you much. Some objects are "bright" because they're huge but the surface brightness is actually low, and they're hard to see and even impossible to see in light polluted sky. Some might actually only be visible at one magnification in the scope that can just see them.

For stars it's easier, as it only depends on the sky background brightness, the scope's light grasp, the magnification (more is better until the seeing starts to blut the star or you start to come close to the scope's resolution limit) and finally your eyes. There are a couple of calculators floating around.

Here's one:

Telescope Limiting Magnitude Calculator

The reason I ask is that I tried to find Uranus but found it impossible, even knowing it's very close to Jupiter at the moment and that I should be able to see it with the naked eye

Uhm -- perhaps your skies aren't dark enough? Uranus is far from obvious, and when it's small as it is now, it's only visible with averted vision in eve rural skies (unless you're somewhere really really dark).

And even when you see it, it's just a very, very faint star.

should I be using a finderscope?

Right now, you should be using Jupiter, the field of view of your larger eyepieces, and star hopping in the correct direction. In a large scope it's obvious which "star" is Uranus.

In an ETX70 which has "GoTo" I frequently see people who let the mount figure where it is and then ask me what star in the field Uranus is (happens even more often with Neptune).

[ollypenrice]

A finder scope helps but needs to be a decent size, 50mm or more. Also a wide field EP till you find your quarry, then close in.

Paulo's tip on being prepared is key. The photographic Atlas of the Stars is a book which allows you to practise in the living room because it has a star chart next to a photo. Find it on the chart then make yourself find it on the photo. A powerful rehearsal for getting out in the cold... Recommended.

Olly

[glowjet]

You might also find that : "The Illustrated Guide to Astronomical Wonders", would be worth adding to your armory, have a look at the threads in response to Buzz Light years request for a good star guide book, it is well recommended.

John.

[RichD]

Thanks to everyone for the informative replies, you've been very helpful