Mount Question

[pbyrne]

Hi everyone.

Due to an ongoing back complaint I know that I will have to part company with my 12" dob sometime in the near future as it is getting too heavy for me to move around. There is only one place in the garden shed where I can store it and it requires moving to a different location on a different level, so I can't employ a trolley of some type and there is not enough room by the shed to observe from. And no, I can't move the shed.

Anyway, I will downsizing and I have a 4" refractor in mind, I know, it's some come down from 12" to 4", but I'm hoping to cobble together the money for an apo with the sale of the dob and some money I've saved.

This brings me to the mounting question, I am looking for advice on the best type of mount, budget about £1000, I am a visual and sketching astronomer, but I might like to tinker with photography at some future date.

I would appreciate any experiences you good people have had with varying mounts and any recommendations.

I am also considering building a concrete pier in the front garden to mount the EQ head on.

Thanks for the time.

[simon84]

A 4" Apo can be had second hand for sensible money and depending on how far into the dark arts you plan to travel I would suggest a HEQ5, both those items second hand would cost around your budget, maybe a little less but that depends on if your £1000 budget is for both scope and mount or just mount, if its only the mount I would probably go for an NEQ6. Future proof yourself as much as you can. Once an imaging rig is setup permanataly its alot less toll on your back. I suffer from bad back and between the pain and the meds its a nightmare setting everything up for what could end up being half an hours imaging before its too much and I have to pack up.

Then it all depends on if you want to guide, but there are plenty of light weight options out there.

I've just got my pier how I really want it, http://stargazerslounge.com/diy-astronomer/117154-pier-mkii-finally-finished.html

I totally recommend a pier. Even for visual use its such an improvement over the tripod.

HTH and good luck with everything and I hope your back dosnt hamper you too much,

[ronin]

A HEQ5 should be good for what you require, but a HEQ5 isn't exactly light and if you have back trouble it could get too much again.

Check the weight of the intended scope and if light enough then how about the smaller EQ5.

The EQ5 will take about 10kg in total so if you aimed at a scope and weight combination of say 6-6.5 kg it should be OK. Just not sure if a 4" apo would weigh sufficently small to allow this.

I think that you are going to have to select and then look at specific scopes, get the weights and determine a mount for them. You cannot really do it any other way if you have to consider your back.

[Astro_Baby]

The heq5 is bearable as it's not that heavy on it's own, obviously a lot depends on how bad your back is but the heq5 weight is in one block rather than extended across a long tube like a dob. You can carry it with both arms hooked as if you were a forklift truck and that keeps the weight close to your chest. What adds to the weight (and for me makes it the tpping point for portability) are the counterweights. I wouldn't think a 4inch apo would be that heavy and as a result that might. Mean only a sinle 5kg counterweight would be needed. My TAL only needs a single weight and it makes a huge difference to it's portability over my newt which needs three 5kg weights.

[Moonshane]

sorry to hear you have back pain. just to think laterally, and knowing how much of a wrench losing my 12" dob would be, could you not buy/make a 'tool store' and put this somewhere else in the garden? perhaps with a pull out track?

[John]

I'm prone to back problems which is one of the reasons I've more or less stopped using EQ mounts now. Alt-az setups enable me to keep using decent aperture scopes (up to 10") while retaining mobility and quick set up and tear down times.

A 4" or even a 5" apochromat on a Giro-type mount and a tall tripod would be a very nice outfit for visual work IMHO.

If you miss the aperture too much you can always get an 8" F/6 OTA (the Orion Optics ones are light) and put it on the other side of the Giro mount

[pbyrne]

Many thanks to all who replied, excellent advice as usual.

The main problem with moving the dob is that it is about 5' long, there are handles to carry it that the previous owner added, but weighing in at 50" it takes a lot of effort to get it up and into the cradle, and conversely out of the cradle. At the moment I can do it, but I can feel the strain and it is only a matter of time. Coming back from a public outreach programme one night I was taking it out of the car when it threw my back out, I only managed to get it to the ground before I dropped it, that cost me a couple of days off work, I'm worried that the next time I will drop it.

Scanning around the net and looking at both the NEQ6 and the HEQ5, I like the look of both. I find that I am leaning towards the NEQ6, as has been stated it's better to have too much mount than too little. The weight of the NEQ6 head is 35lbs, I'm sure I can handle that weight, especially, as stated by Astro Baby, it's physical size makes it easier to carry.

There's not the room in the garden Moonshane to build a storage shed, unfortunately so I have to work with what I have.

The funny thing is, I'm spending so much time thinking about the mount that I have given little thought to the actual scope, maybe I can't think in two different directions at once.

Many thanks again for the replies, you've given me food for thought.

[jgs001]

Paul, this may not be much help, but I did see some mods someone had done to a dob... They'd put large wheels on the base but in a cradle of some sort, that meant they rotated up out of the way for use during observing. It operated sort of like a wheel barrow type thing. That would mean you could move the dob, place it on the ground and take it in again, without having to lift it up.

[simon84]

Glad you have some food for thought Paul.

I use the NEQ6 pro and have two prolapsed discs that leave me useless most of the time but I have built a shelf in my shed at exactly the right height so that I can go in there and scoop it up and take it to my pier which again was designed so that the height of it allows to just pop it on with out bending or leaning.

Dont get me wrong alot of the time I simply just cannot lift it but when I am ok its not that difficult and using the arms wrapped around it method with it leaning on your chest it is bearable.

I am hoping to build something that will clamp to the top of the pier that will allow me to leave my mount head setup all the time, but because of security issues I cant just leave it out there with a cover over it and instead need something more secure.

If you can go for the NEQ6 it would be future proofing yourself if you decided to go for a bigger scope or a bigger imaging rig. I will take upto 25kg of scope for visual use and with my current setup I'm not even at 9kg so there is alot of room for maneuver with this mount.

Its a shame were so far apart otherwise I'd have said pop over and come and have a look at my setup and have a go at lifting it onto the pier.

[John]

.... The weight of the NEQ6 head is 35lbs, I'm sure I can handle that weight, especially, as stated by Astro Baby, it's physical size makes it easier to carry.....

- with my 10" newtonian on the alt-az mount, the whole setup weighs 35lbs

OK it's not an NEQ6, but it's getting used loads

[pbyrne]

I have seen wheels added John, but the garden is split level, there was a large slope when we moved in and I flattened it with different levels, therefore wheels might not be of use.

Sorry to hear about the prolapsed discs SlySi, they sound nasty, it's heartening to hear that you are not letting it get in your way of enjoying the night sky, you're an inspiration.

John wrote:

- with my 10" newtonian on the alt-az mount, the whole setup weighs 35lbs

How do you find mounting the scope on the alt-az? Do you feel you need three hands?

[Astro_Baby]

Can I just add a note of caution on the EQ6 front.

Its quite a bit heavier than an HEQ5. YOu may not notice it just picking one up briefly. Just aftyer getting the HEQ5 I had occasion to try and pick up an EQ6 and, under easy conditions (ie just picking it up complete with its legs and shuffling a few feet across a smooth surface) there didndt seem much in it and for a while I regretted not getting the bigger mount.

A few months ago now I had an EQ6 to strip down for one of my guides and I spent a goodly portion of time picking the mount up and putting it down again, moving it from table to table and onto the floor while various bits of work were carried out. By the end of the firts day I was totally knacked - it might only be a few pounds on paper but it feels a lot worse when you have to lug it to and fro plus its legs are a lot heavier as well.

Fair enough its more stable, and I have a scope here at the moment which could really do with an EQ6, but I know for me its just the straw that breaks the camels back for me.

With lifting anything theres always a limit to what you CAN carry and what you'd WANT to carry and for me the EQ6 is just that teensy bit too heavy. Its also bulkier - again it may not be by much but it is significant.

Aftyer a weekend working with the EQ6 the HEQ5 felt teensy by comparison.

Thats not a negantive on the EQ6 front but a word of caution is all and before you jump in you should really get to feel the weight of both mounts. SOmetimes I wish I had an EQ6 but then I lug the HEQ5 somewhere and am very glad its no heavier than it actually is.

[ollypenrice]

I'm still reasonably strong and sporty but I can't say I like humping an EQ6 for too far. The five would be fine for a 4 inch. I'd be inclined to future proof my back before future proofing the mount's paylad!!

But surely there are all sorts of options to keep the Dob? A snug 'sentry box' duly re-located in which it stood vertically prior to being wheeled out?

Olly