Advice for a Starter Telescope.

[Merlin999]

It's just weird when someone asks about a telescope and gets told to go and buy binoculars instead. That's like asking to buy a car and being told to buy a motorbike instead because you'll "learn the roads better".

I'd be very upset if I got a pair of binoculars for Christmas when I'd specifically asked for a telescope.

I'm surprised at this. This was exactly the advice I was given a few years ago when I wanted to getco into astronomy, had a low budget and wanted something to use with my kids (true my kids were younger then.)

I wanted a telescope, but was advised to go for binoculars for my budget and it was very good advice for me. As I said in my oriignal post,I know it's not as professional as a telescope and I would understand if he would prefer a telescope. But it was good advice for me at the time which is why I thought I'd share it.

But then I am only a beginner at this so perhaps my advice is not terribly good.

[great_bear]

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[Merlin999]

Funnily enough contrary to the assumption you've made in your post, I live in London and I've used my binoculars for a number of years in my very light polluted back garden and I've had cracking views of Jupiter, Saturn, the Moon and Orion's Nebula.

Anyway, I don't think a debate about the philosophy and mechanics of giving advice on a Forum will necessarily help 1616French with the exciting decision of what to buy for her son.

1616French, I hope your son comes to love astronomy as much as my girls. It is a great interest to get into. Good luck with your decision making.

[CGolder]

Keep any eye out for a skywatcher 150p dobsonian, i sold mine on ebay not more than a few months ago for £100 and i have no dout another will come around. when i brought it it thought it was massive! i now know better.

Serious bang for you buck,

if space is a problem then the heritage 130p would be good, again i would look to buy second hand.

the problem with reflectors is aligning the mirrors, but this can be done with a cap with a hole in if needed.

[great_bear]

Fair point, comment deleted.

[Sirius_Starseed]

However the one piece of expert-to-newbie advice that makes me squirm the most:

"Go to your local astronomy society and ask to view through other people's equipment before buying your own..."

That's my idea of Hell. It makes me feel physically ill.

I can think of nothing worse than mingling with other people and being subjected to their opinions. For me, one of the most appealing aspects of astronomy is being alone. I hate this modern trend of turning everything into a group activity.

Wow! Really?

This is the nicest bit of advice I've been given on this forum So it really is true, everyone has different opinions

Seriously though, I found this so welcoming and kind of the nice folk here (East Midlands Stargazers I'm talking to you) to invite me down to their group to look through their 'scopes and to go from there if I hadn't already got one by then myself. How kind I thought! These people don't know me from Adam but they're willing to let me join their little group and look through their 'scopes. Now if I hadn't of already got my own and the weather had been right then I would of jumped at the chance. In fact as soon as they found of I'd bought my own 'scope they again invited me down and even offered to collimate it for me. Again, every Saturday the weather was pants so I still didn't get down (I still haven't *I hate you weather*) but I know as soon as the weather picks up I'll be there

Not only will I be learning from people with experience but I can take a look at the different 'scopes and get an idea of what I like and dislike (I'm sure none of their gear I'll dislike though). Surely I'll pick up a wealth of valuable info and hopefully make so great friends too. Seriously, if it wasn't for these guys I've been speaking to for the last few weeks/months I don't even think I'd still be here due to the amount of bad luck I've had with my 'scope (now ex 'scope). However, all the messages of support, help and advice I've come away with an even greater passion for the night sky.

Thanks guys x

[great_bear]

Doh! - What's the point in me deleting my moody post if you're going to quote it like that? :(

Seriously though - my point was just that some of us don't like crowds. Even small ones... Or even very small ones...

[rowan46]

i must admit I'm with great bear on this, if i was a kid who had asked for a telescope. I would be disappointed to receive binoculars instead. There's no doubt that its very good advice for an adult to buy binoculars first, but a child who wants something for christmas would feel a little disappointed to get something else and told it was just as good. I am going to commit heresy now and no doubt everyone will shoot this down in flames but its something to think about. every year about november Lidl do a telescope special usually they are bresser telescopes not great scopes by any means but they are a proper scope and usually sold for the £100 mark.

[matt c]

i must admit I'm with great bear on this, if i was a kid who had asked for a telescope. I would be disappointed to receive binoculars instead. There's no doubt that its very good advice for an adult to buy binoculars first, but a child who wants something for christmas would feel a little disappointed to get something else and told it was just as good. I am going to commit heresy now and no doubt everyone will shoot this down in flames but its something to think about. every year about november Lidl do a telescope special usually they are bresser telescopes not great scopes by any means but they are a proper scope and usually sold for the £100 mark.

I reckon this'll beat a Lidl Bresser scope any day:

Dobsonians - Skywatcher Heritage 76 Mini Dobsonian

I know it's small but the aperture on this is still the same as your typical cheapy Tasco type supermarket scope, the optics will also be better quality.

[matt c]

I should add that I bought a Tasco about 5/6 years ago from Argos before I knew anything about astronomy, it had a 70mm primary mirror and a terrible almost unusable mount, and I paid £140 for the thing. The mini dob above would beat the hell out of this thing and it's about a third of the price.

[Merlin999]

i must admit I'm with great bear on this, if i was a kid who had asked for a telescope. I would be disappointed to receive binoculars instead. There's no doubt that its very good advice for an adult to buy binoculars first, but a child who wants something for christmas would feel a little disappointed to get something else and told it was just as good.

Yes good point: the last thing you'd want would be for him to be disappointed at Christmas!

Though I have to admit my kids are always asking for very expensive things (you know what it is like with kids, they always want the earth!) and then being persuaded by hubby and myself that the value for money other option would be better. Though sometimes of course, that doesn't work and I have to give in and get them what they want.

[rowan46]

I had forgotten the heritage dobs from skywatcher they have a fairly good rep, I would like to point out that my suggestion for the lidl scope was a last resort. if you can't find a secondhand named brand in time ideally I would go for a 2nd hand skywatcher for that price.

[1616french]

Thanks all,

i think i`ll stay away from the cheaper brands and try to raise a little extra...say £150 total and see what i can get with that.

I will be careful when buying from E-Bay though,i`ll try to buy local and from someone with 100% feedback.

Just a quick question though...What is Autostar & goto?

I have an idea what it is but don`t want to embarrass myself if i`m wrong.

[Thunder]

goto is a system that once you have set up will be able to move the scope to the possition of that object.

[brantuk]

Goto electronics will set you back a fair bit more than your budget - two to three times as much I would think.

A good upgrade to be thinking about after you've had the scope for a while and learned how it works - would be to get a right ascension tracking motor so you dont have to follow the object manually.

[great_bear]

- it's considered a cool feature by beginners, but it is expensive and doesn't work well when done on-the-cheap, and some consider it's too much of a crutch.

Nonetheless, some find it useful - especially folks like me who live under such a light-polluted sky, that I couldn't learn it without goto - but mine is driven by a laptop so you can see what's going on...

That is an accurate and expensive system though.

On a budget it is best avoided.

[mark7331]

I'd go for a reflector - I know it's a tiny bit over budget (£122 from FLO) but it's a real scope on a real mount.

Reflectors - Skywatcher Skyhawk 1145P

Mark

[great_bear]

Yes but...

...it's because of mounts like that, that Dobsonians were invented...

I agree it looks the part but will be frustratingly wobbly.

[mark7331]

...it's because of mounts like that, that Dobsonians were invented...

What? Equitorial mounts? Can't say I agree. Both mounts have their strengths and weaknesses. For me the choice is simple - the EQ mount is the least restrictive but hey, horses for courses. I don't mind being wrong.

For £159 you can get the 130 with a motor to help tracking - it's not goto but almost at your revised budget.

Reflectors - Skywatcher Explorer 130M

[1616french]

- it's considered a cool feature by beginners, but it is expensive and doesn't work well when done on-the-cheap, and some consider it's too much of a crutch.

Nonetheless, some find it useful - especially folks like me who live under such a light-polluted sky, that I couldn't learn it without goto - but mine is driven by a laptop so you can see what's going on...

That is an accurate and expensive system though.

On a budget it is best avoided.

Now thats what i`m talkin about,he`d be over the moon with something he could plug into his laptop,i bet that was cheap....NOT!

[Thunder]

But that said couldn't you look at a non-motorisd mount and upgrade it if its felt to be needed then? i.e. spend the money more on the scope now and possibly upgrade mount in the future once the hobby is established?

[pvaz]

If you buy a motor, then you also need a power tank... and time to setup the mount and patient to observe while standing (or you need to buy a decent ironing chair).

I still have a very strong opinion the best and cheapest way to observe is a dobsonian. I do not own an EQ and only used one a couple of times but I can't really see myself observing as much with one. Sometimes I try to hide this strong opinion not to influence people too much but here are my reasons:

Dob vs EQ:

- Setup time: Virtually none with a dob (1 min). With an EQ can be reasonably fast once you get the hang of it (10 to 15min).

- Comfort: With a medium dob (6 or 8") you can use a regular chair and observe in a sitting position as the EP always faces the same spot. An EQ places the EP on odd places, then you either contort or rotate the tube and loose a bit of time per object (I often observe 15+ on one good night so that adds up).

- Tracking: Manual with a dob. Auto with a motorized EQ. This is the only advantage of an EQ. Manual tracking at high mags can be hard at 1st and a bit annoying after, but I'm glad to trade it off for the comfort and speed. At low mags (up to 120x) it's not a problem. (There are dobs with tracking if you want the best of both worlds but it comes at a cost.)

- Imaging: You need an EQ for that. A very good one (£££) if you want good results.

- GOTO: You can find it available on both designs.

I honestly don't believe I would have checked all Messier's over a 10 month period with an EQ. I went out on many nights when I was tired just because it only takes me a couple of minutes. Some of those nights ware my only chance this year for those objects as weather last winter was a nightmare.

Money wise, you can get an 8" dob for 265£. The same scope on an unmotorised Eq will cost 369£ (then you need the motor and the powertank to actually make it track).

[matt c]

If you buy a motor, then you also need a power tank... and time to setup the mount and patient to observe while standing (or you need to buy a decent ironing chair).

I still have a very strong opinion the best and cheapest way to observe is a dobsonian. I do not own an EQ and only used one a couple of times but I can't really see myself observing as much with one. Sometimes I try to hide this strong opinion not to influence people too much but here are my reasons:

Dob vs EQ:

- Setup time: Virtually none with a dob (1 min). With an EQ can be reasonably fast once you get the hang of it (10 to 15min).

- Comfort: With a medium dob (6 or 8") you can use a regular chair and observe in a sitting position as the EP always faces the same spot. An EQ places the EP on odd places, then you either contort or rotate the tube and loose a bit of time per object (I often observe 15+ on one good night so that adds up).http://stargazerslounge.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1550889

- Tracking: Manual with a dob. Auto with a motorized EQ. This is the only advantage of an EQ. Manual tracking at high mags can be hard at 1st and a bit annoying after, but I'm glad to trade it off for the comfort and speed. At low mags (up to 120x) it's not a problem. (There are dobs with tracking if you want the best of both worlds but it comes at a cost.)

- Imaging: You need an EQ for that.

- GOTO: You can find it available on both designs.

I honestly don't believe I would have checked all Messier's over a 10 month period with an EQ. For starters I went out on many nights when I was tired just because it only takes me a couple of minutes. Some of those nights ware my only chance this year for those objects as weather last winter was a nightmare.

Money wise, you can get an 8" dob for 265£. The same scope on an unmotorised Eq will cost 369£ (then you need the motor and the powertank to actually make it track).

I completely agree, unless your going to get into imaging (something you shouldn't have in mind as a beginner) the dobsonian scope is, in a word, perfect. THEE only drawback is collimation and to be honest once you get the hang of it it's easy.

[great_bear]

What? Equitorial mounts? Can't say I agree. Both mounts have their strengths and weaknesses

Oh - you seem to have misunderstood me.

The specific telescope you have highlighted is mounted on an EQ1 type mount.

The EQ1 is notoriously wobbly.

That was the specific point I was making.

[pvaz]

I completely agree, unless your going to get into imaging (something you shouldn't have in mind as a beginner) the dobsonian scope is, in a word, perfect. THEE only drawback is collimation and to be honest once you get the hang of it it's easy.

If you want enough aperture for some galaxies/nebula, and you're not a loto winner, then you need a reflector, regardless of the mount design.