struggling with best astrophotog setup

[milan]

hi all,

a while since weve been on here but the winter is coming and that means with any luck its time to go outside and get frozen!

so.... equipment is EQ6 Synscan, WO Megrez 90 + Celestron Nexstar 6SE.

what we arent sure about is the best way we can set our equipment up for deep space photography - we have a DSLR (unmodded) so can use that but could think about going to a CCD but then as always money comes into the equation. we really don't know the best way to put our equipment together though, piggybacking, autoguiders etc

what would you guys do? coz to be honest we are a little lost at the moment!

thanks

[milan]

a cheeky little bump

any advice would be greatly appreciated, we have all ths wonderful kit but there is no way we are using it to its full potential

its photos of nebula and galaxies that we really want to do, perhaps with the odd bit of planetary but a very minor proportion

thanks again

[steppenwolf]

I would use the EQ6 and the WO Megrez 90 for nebulae and large galaxies like M31 and the Celestron Nexstar 6SE for planetary/lunar work.

Get into the swing of things with the DSLR mounted on the Megrez as this will open up a lovely selection of deep sky objects for you but be prepared to spend a little extra money on a guide 'scope (a Sky-Watcher/Konus short tube 80mm refractor for under £100.00 would be ideal and you may get a second hand one for even less). Buy a Sky-Watcher SynGuider for £229.00 and you will have a complete auto-guiding system which will allow you to take the long exposures required for deep sky imaging. Piggy-backing the guide 'scope on the imaging 'scope is simple and works well.

A simple camcorder mounted on the Celestron Nexstar 6SE will allow you to take great images of the Moon and give you an entry into planetary imaging.

[milan]

Thanks for the reply, is the Syn-guider well regarded? (off to look in a second)

Is it worth looking at changing the mounting system to (Losmandy) in order that we can mount the WO and Nexstar side by side for anything also or is the piggybacking route more sensible?

EDIT:

Any reason to look at a Baader LVI Smartguider 2 over a synguider?

[steppenwolf]

You don't need to go Losmandy to get a side by side arrangement with the EQ6, several vixen solutions exist although it has to be said that Losmandy dovetails are more substantial which for imaging is a very big plus - I was trying to keep your start-up costs down while you learn the 'craft'!

Any reason to look at a Baader LVI Smartguider 2 over a synguider?

The biggest problem with the SynGuider is that the screen is built into the camera end which means either crawling around on the ground to view it or using a diagonal to get it into position but this latter method introduces a possible risk of 'differential flexure'. For the money, the SynGuider cannot be beaten although my own preference is always to have a PC controlled mount and a PC controlled autoguider.

[milan]

Dont worry realised what you were trying to do and am mindfule of costs. Its just something we briefly looked at last time we were in our Local shop

either this months or last of teh sky at night has a review of the synguider in so will review in detail later From memory they also mentioned the getting on your knees issue

Just found this thread by Psychobilly (Skywatcher Synguider - A review in parts... [Archive] - Stargazers Lounge) which seems to suggest that a PC based autoguider is still a better option (using a QHY5), any thoughts on that? Presume the piggybacking of scope is still the same process though?

[steppenwolf]

The SynGuider really does a good job but I prefer the flexibility of computer control - but then I bought my autoguiding solution long before the SynGuider was available!

The Piggy-backing issue remains the same no matter which course you take, unless, of course, you go for an off axis guider (OAG) but now we open a big can of worms so I suggest that your very next purchase is popcorn and start plumping up that cushion .

[milan]

LOL, thanks.

[milan]

anyone else have further advice/guidance?

[milan]

Anyone?

[ollypenrice]

Hi,

Is the Synguider the device that doesn't need a computer? Good value but one minor nightmare lies in wait; every time you lose your guidestar (things do go wrong) you have to find it again. On a PC screen this takes a second. If you have to get back on your knees, fit a parfocal eyepiece, find it and then remove the parfocal eyepiece again then - in a word - no thanks! And I say that here where clouds are pretty rare. In the UK passing cloud interruptions must be common.

Particularly second hand you have plenty of guide camera options like the Meade DSI etc. I use Atik 16ic guide cameras here but that's not a cheap solution unless you get one second hand. I'd certainly try to do so or go for any PC based guide camera but never the computerless one. That's just me though.

I agree with Steve on using the refractor rather than the SCT for deep sky. I daresay he has not suggested guiding with the SCT for three reasons; there is a danger of it experiencing mirror flop and throwing out your guiding. It has a slow f ratio and would need very long guide exposures. It has a small field of view so one of the scopes would have to be mounted in rings so that a guide star could always be found and these would cost more than an ST80 guidescope - currently about £85 from FLO. (You will need an extension to get to focus with an ST80. An old or nasty barlow with the lens discarded is a popular choice.) With an f5 ST80 and a reasonably efficient guide camera you are likely to get a guide star straight away. I always have done in the last three years, literally.

Personally I greatly prefer CCD to DSLR but the cost difference is certainly there, especially if you would like a large chip. CCDs with DSLR sized chips cost a fortune.

However, I have just had a gallop with an Atik 320E and was impressed. Jordan JCJC posted some narrowband results last month. I also had an Atik 16HR (now the 314L) and this has the lovely Sony 285 chip, sensitive and quiet. It is a dream of a chip, also available in the SXVH9. However, Atik software is very user friendly and I'm a gnome as regards IT!

But if cost is a big issue then DSLRs have a lot to offer, I readily concede.

Why use the refractor for DS? Because they are plug and play and give great results without complication. They don't need collimation, resist dewing, have no mirrors to shift, come to focus easily, give sharp results for their aperture, don't pruduce diffraction spikes (I just don't like 'em), are small and less affected by wind, don't need rotating to get the camera in the right place...

AP is neither cheap nor easy but it is incredibly rewarding, as witness the high level of addiction to be found on this website!

Olly

[Steve 1962]

Hiya -

I have a Skywatcher 100mm ED f9 refractor and a William Optics ZS70 mounted side by side on an HEQ5 using a tandem bar. I have a modded DSLR plugged into the ZS70 and a QHY5v plugged into the SW 100mm.

If I'm deep sky imaging I use the DSLR and the ZS70 for imaging, with the SW 100mm and QHY5v acting as a guider. If I'm doing lunar stuff, I add a barlow to the SW 100mm and still use the QHY5v for imaging (and just ignore the ZS70 / DSLR).

This means that my kit stays almost the same whatever I'm doing and SW 100mm /QHY5v act as a guider and lunar system.

So - in your case - how about taking your Nestar off the supplied mount and mounting it along side the Megrez on the EQ6 with a dovetail and Tandam bar.

Then choose a camera that'll guide and do lunar / planetary work (a DSI, an Imaging Source DMK something or a QHY ?), a barlow and a DSLR that you can get modded later if you want.

The approach works for me.

Hope this helps

Steve

[milan]

Thanks all, helps quite a bit. It seems that more people are recommending a PC based setup.

The only problem i forsee here is that we have a Mac laptop and not a windows based one and really dont want to get another laptop, even secondhand

From memory when i looked a while back PHD works on a mac as well, any downsides to using a mac??

[ollypenrice]

One of my regular guests uses a Mac with virtual Windows running on it because too many astro programmes are for Windows. I have no idea what kind of an undertaking it is to set this up. I'd pose the question on a separate thread.

BTW a mag arrived with a review of the Synguider this morning and now I see how it works. There's no parfocal EP to mess with but I still would prefer the physical comfort of the laptop myself.

Olly

[milan]

Managing to get more confused in that you can control your complete setup (autoguider and mount) using a laptop:

http://stargazerslounge.com/equipment-help/109223-phd-guiding-laptop-mount-connection-help.html

Should we be looking at doing this?

If we go the laptop route, what about leaving it out on a cold damp night? dont really care for leaving an expensive mac outside in those kind of conditions. Surely it cant be good for it?

[ollypenrice]

Proably not. A cheap netbook has a lot going for it. Mine handles all functions perfectly happily. One way to protect your computer is to put it in an open fronted box lined with expanded polystyrene (or whatever) building insulation. The machine's own heat will then keep it above the dewpoint.

Olly

[milan]

Thanks.

Just got back from our local astronomy shop having ordered QH5Y. The guys there recommended getting hold of a 2nd hand scope to piggyback straight on to our Megrez and then using an off axis eyepiece adaptor as cheap way to start. Quite excited, just need to try and pick up a 60mm scope now.

Thanks for all the help to date

EDIT: Just searching for an reviews of Off axis guiders instead of a separate guide scope, what are peoples thoughts on these? the only thing that confuses me is how do i work out the distance my 5D should be from the OAG etc?

[PhoenixRising]

I use a Synguider and got it working for the first time last night (first clear night since I bought it). Fantastic piece of kit and very easy to use. Very sensitive, was using a very dim star that I couldnt see to guide and was getting 4 minute subs easily. Could have pushed it further but I'm pacing myself. Highly recommended.

[ollypenrice]

I use a Synguider and got it working for the first time last night (first clear night since I bought it). Fantastic piece of kit and very easy to use. Very sensitive, was using a very dim star that I couldnt see to guide and was getting 4 minute subs easily. Could have pushed it further but I'm pacing myself. Highly recommended.

Good to know. I'm always open to persuasion! Having now read Steve's excellent review I can see how it works. I think I might be inclined to run it through a diagonal and just apply a not-too-permanent speck of Araldite to bond it into the guidescope if the latter were a cheapy. I've done that before, just a speck to keep it still. I used the lockscrew as well and was still able to get it out later. A lot would depend on how low you run your mount. Mine are kept low to keep them out of the wind so I'd spend a lot of time on the floor without a diagonal.

Regarding the shop's suggestions, I'm lost. Why are you piggybacking a second hand scope if you are going to use an off axis guider? Surely an OAG would go in the imaging scope? And I'm not entirely sure what's meant by an off axis eyepiece adapter.

Chip distance becomes an issue when you are using a field flattener or flattener-reducer. It is usually around 56mm reducer to chip. Anything you put in the train has to allow this distance to be respected, OAGs and filterwheels included.

A good guidescope should have a fast f ratio in order to pick up faint stars quickly. FLO have the ST80 at £85 at the moment. At f5 it's brilliant. Personally I think it is easier than using an OAG because you can find a star so easily, a nice bright one that won't go away when a wisp of cloud passes over! With an OAG you have an additional operation in rotating the device in search of a star. Also you are likely to have to compromise on the composition of your image in order to find one. OAGs really come into thier own on long focal length SCTs where very accurate guiding is needed so you guide at the imaging fl. Also SCTs are prone to mirror movement-image shift and an OAG corrects this naturally.

Olly