Needing tips to help me find stars.

[SirFoo]

Hi everyone,

I've been viewing the night sky and the planets for about a year now and know my way around the night sky reasonably well. However I've now been trying to view double stars and Messiers objects and have found these much more difficult. I must have spent about an hour on Wednesday night trying to locate a double star in Cygnus and got precisely nowhere. I've never really used the scope prpoperly in the sense that I set it up with polaris and when I did try this it only seemed to make things more difficult. Would you all like to share your experience of setting up a scope prior to viewing that makes it easier to find things. I would also appreciate some on advice on easily locating a star. I was using the finderscope to try and locate this double star but it was too hard! I already use google skymap and stellarium which are freat but when you are viewing small sections of the sky one section looks pretty much the same as another. Thanks fro any help received.

Douglas:confused:

[Capricorn]

You need a finder scope of some sort set up accuratly with the main scope. Will leave you to do that. An RDF gives a bigger view but some find them difficult to use, but possibly better for double star location.

Next, forget the scope. Get out and simply use your eyes and/or a set of binoculars to pick out what you want to see. If you don't know where it is then pointing a scope at a patch of sky means ypou probably will not get lucky.

I assume that you wanted Albireo? That should be reasonably easy to locate/see by eye (not as a double by eye), although it is dimmer then most expect.

When you use the scope start with a 30/32mm eyepiece. Get as big a section of the sky in he eyepiece as you can. At the location stage you are not really bothered about quality. You just want the double in view, after that you centre it, focus it and increment the magnification. Unless the EP's are parfocal then remember that you will need to refocus when you swap eyepieces.

For doubles there is a list of the most colourful doubles ambling around web sites. Think the astroleague.org may have it, but a search for "coloured double stars" should locate it. Otherwise PM me an email as I have it. (Ordered 3 different ways)

Another list (bigger) is:

Double Stars - TOP 200 most beautiful double stars

Another option is Cloudy Nights Double Star section, not sure what they have listed.

I find that couloured doubles are a nice pleasant way of observing as you don't tend to be trying for impossible/difficult objects..

[SirFoo]

Thanks for the reply Capricorn. My finderscope is set up perfectly as I have been using it to view the planets, all of which which I can find and because these tend to be brighter its more obvious when you locate them.It was alberio that I was looking for...I forgot its name. I suppose I was wondering if people out there always set up their scopes properly before viewing and do they use the RA DEC scaleso or is is just a case of pointing the scope in the right direction, using a 25 to 30 EP and finderscope and hoping for the best! I will also view the links that you supplied Capricorn. Thanks for your help.

Douglas

[Capricorn]

Even a finder scope has a field of view and they are never as big as a person thinks. :eek:

They also still invert/flip the view so this has to be taken into account.

A 1 or 2 degree field of view is small, that was why I mentioned an RDF. The nature of them is that you are looking at the sky with your full eye field of view, just there should be a small red dot imposed on you sight. So if you get along with them they can be easier to use for a single star location.

[John]

Albeiro is at the "head" end of Cygnus, the Swan. I find a red dot finder carefully aligned with your main scope makes finding things much easier.

[Llamanaut]

i use a telrad in conjunction with my finderscope. To find messier objects i use the geometric method, basically this means looking at a star atlas and finding out where the object lies in relation to shapes, angles and distances from other stars, then just overlay (in your mind) the star atlas with what you can see in the sky. I use a 32mm to locate and a 12 or 10mm for a close look

For instance M57 the ring nebula is roughly half way between the two lower stars in lyra. You place your red dot finder or telrad half way between the two stars in question. Look through the 32mm and you should see a faint smoke ring

I always collimate my reflector prior to use with a laser collimator, its a habit ive gotten into and i can collimate in about 30 seconds now

Hope this helps? If not give me a shout

[John]

i use a telrad in conjunction with my finderscope. To find messier objects i use the geometric method, basically this means looking at a star atlas and finding out where the object lies in relation to shapes, angles and distances from other stars, then just overlay (in your mind) the star atlas with what you can see in the sky. I use a 32mm to locate and a 12 or 10mm for a close look

For instance M57 the ring nebula is roughly half way between the two lower stars in lyra. You place your red dot finder or telrad half way between the two stars in question. Look through the 32mm and you should see a faint smoke ring

I always collimate my reflector prior to use with a laser collimator, its a habit ive gotten into and i can collimate in about 30 seconds now

Hope this helps? If not give me a shout

Great description - thats just how I do it as well

Once you have found an object once, it's much easier the next time around

[Bizibilder]

Well worth investing in a Telrad - as Llamanaut says it is very easy to get the scpe pointed so that the object is within the field of view of a low power eyepiece (when well set up it should be in the middle of the FOV!. If you download "cartes du ceil" (free sky atlas) you can print out maps with telrad "circles" superimposed so you can take them outside with you.

Good Hunting!

PS Don't despair - everyone of us here has gone through the same learning curve and frustrations!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SirFoo]

Thanks again everyone for all the great advice. I have to admit that I had not even heard of an RDF or telrad. I presume that these are easy to fit to the scope. I had a wee look at first optics but they don't seem to stock them. Although all the advice, as usual, was excellent nobody has commneted yet on whether they set up their scope before viewing. At the moment I just place my telescope with the scope pointing in the general direction of the planet/star that I wish to view and then mess about with the finderscope until I get it (or not!).

Thanks everyone.

Douglas

[Dave Smith]

I had a wee look at first optics but they don't seem to stock them.

Douglas

Yes they do. See Finders

Dave

[Bizibilder]

Are you polar aligning your equatorial mount, even approximately? I suspect that this may be the cause of your frustration.

In your first post you say: "I've never really used the scope prpoperly in the sense that I set it up with polaris and when I did try this it only seemed to make things more difficult." and "At the moment I just place my telescope with the scope pointing in the general direction of the planet/star that I wish to view and then mess about with the finderscope until I get it (or not!)." in your last.

If you could explain exactly how you "place" you scope we would be only to pleased to help.

[SirFoo]

Bizibilder.... I sense that I have done something wrong! I do not polar align my scope as up till now it has been of no use. I simply take out my scope and point the tube in the general direction of the star/planet. That really is it. I then use the fine adjustment controls to locate star.

[Bizibilder]

Sir Foo - you have done nothing wrong! It is easy for people to be confused as to how to set up an equatorial mount. I will try to help!

I have attached a picture. You only need to consider three things - The Polar axis, The Declination axis and the latitude adjustment.

1. The Latitude adjustment. This should be set so that the polar axis is at your latitude. For the UK 52° will do. You should find two opposing screws that allow you to make this adjustment. Undo one and do up the other the polar axis will move to more or less of an angle to the horizintal. There should be a scale on it somewhere. Adjust the screws to make the axis at 52°. ( the pic is at about 30° so you want to make your mount "point higher" to 52°).

2. Take your mount outside and place it in position so that the polar axis is facing North - use a compass to help. That is it should point "up into the sky" in a North direction.

Thats it. Job done!!

OK only really VERY roughly done but its done.

Next to follow an object: Put the scope on the mount (if not already done) and line it up pointing up parallel to the polar axis. The scope will be pointing at Polaris (or very near to it). Undo the lock on the declination axis and rotate JUST this axis 90°. The scope will be horizontal and make sure it is "looking" EAST, (if not rotate it back to Polaris and then 90° the other way). Lock the dec axis. The scope is now pointing to somewhere along the celestial equator (but we havn't a clue where!!). Now release the polar axis lock and slowly rotate the Polar axis only - you will be following the path of an object, that is on the celestial equator, across the sky!! You should rotate the scope so that it "looks" from East to West.

It may be worth doing the above in the daytime so you get an idea of whats going on DON'T LOOK AT THE SUN OR TRACK THE SUN - KEEP THE COVER ON THE END OF THE SCOPE !!!!!!!! - pick a cloudy day, there's lots of them about!

Now. Go out at night with the scope set up and using only the dec axis and polar axis find an object (a brightish one will do). Lock the dec axis NOT the polar axis. Now you can follow the object rotating the scope using ONLY the polar axis. (You may be lucky and have a slow motion knob? If not move it SLOWLY by hand, a little nudge at a time!)

You should be able to follow an object for a good while like this - it will all depend on how "accidentally good!!!" your alignment is! You may, after a while, have to make a tiny adjustment to the dec axis to get the object back into view.

Next lesson - Advanced Polar alignment........ I'll leave you to read up on that - there are plenty of threads on the forum. You DON'T need it to be perfect for visual work so beware of the folk who are aligning for photography, they HAVE to be accurate!!

Hope this gets you going, any question please ask!

[SirFoo]

Thanks Bizibilder, I followed your advice and set up the scope as you suggested. I can now see that this is a far more efficient way of working. Your help( and others) has once again proved invaluable.

[Bizibilder]

Well done SirFoo! 'Tis easy when you know how! You may find reading this:

Astro Babys HEQ5 Polar Alignment will help you get "better" alignment. You have a CG4 mount which is the same as an EQ5 (I think!!). Even without a polar scope the notes on that site should still help.

Clear skies!

[billinforres]

I see you live in Stirling so you will need to set your latitude axis to 56deg.

Have you been to Stirling Astro Society?

They are very active and run some classes.

Have a look at their web site, Stirling Astronomical Society

Bill

[SirFoo]

Bill, I'm in the process of joining SAS. After messing about with setting circles though I think that I may just purchase a telrad and make things a lot easier.

Thanks

Douglas