CONFIRMED: I Am Certifiable!

[TopHouse]

OK, it was about 2:00 am, there's a good inch of snow here where i am, it's blumming freezing, the sky was clear and saturn was in a really good spot. Well, you guessed it, until 4:00 am i was doing my first saturn! I'm both delighted and disappointed though absolutely delighted i did it, until you see it for yourself it's like, I don't know, it's like its not real, it's like a kids drawing of a planet and a lot exagerrated, then you see it and it's like 'oh wow' it really is like that!

Disappointed because, I know the rings aren't at their best, which, OK, not too bad, I know it will get better, also caught a couple of moons which I'm happy with, the above was an acceptable downer as I know it will get better.

BUT

Being a newbie, something I haven't had before, the sky was crystal clear to the naked eye, but while watching saturn, the view wouldn't stay clear, it was like, hmmm, how to explain, it would be quite 'nice' but then maybe every few seconds it would like 'shimmer', something like if waggons were driving past but more subtle, imagine a windmill is off to the side of the scope, the blades don't cross the view, but on one of the blades is a hair dryer, and as that blade comes round, the hairdryer blows a current of air in front of the scope.

I don't think it was lack of cooling, I was out there a good two hours and it still did it.

At the end i also spun round to mars and couldn't get that as sharp as I did last week, hardly any detail in it at all! And that had the 'shimmer' too.

I now have the skywatcher motor focusser now which is absolutely stunning! I experimented a little as well, my viewing of saturn was done with my baader hyperion 8mm, then I went up to having both rings added giving me 4.3mm which was great, also added a yellow filter which made things better, but i tried the 4.3 with my x2 barlow, I know that was REALLY overdoing things but what can i say? i'm new lol, it actually wasn't bad! Focussing was ok with the motorised, but it did lose a fair amount of detail, it was smaller but better without. (forgot to mention scope is explorer 200p)

I know it's not my kit or collimation and I know last week when i did mars i used the hyperion with it's rings added and I had the icecap & everything. So, is what i'm describing caused by the extreme weather or is this shimmer something that you get sometimes?

[Beulah]

Two things come to mind;

1) "Seeing" conditions is the main culprit- atmospheric turbulence causes the "shimmering" and rippling. We don't get many nights in the UK where seeing is excellent. The game is to wait until a brief moment of stillness where you'll glimpse details in the planets you observe.

2) Heat exchange between yourself and the telescope - if it is very cold, the heat from your body can be picked up in the Optical Tube Assembly, especially if you touch the tube with your hands. On very cold nights I try to avoid contact with the telescope once I have found an object.

[Astrosurf]

I didn't know that about heat transfer! Interesting.

I too have a 200p and an 8mm Hyperion so, TopHouse, this is interesting. I've never managed to get a good view of Mars. What are the Hyperion rings you mention?

Also, I have aging eyes and find focussing difficult particularly as manually the image gets bumped around. Would the Skywatcher motor focusser help? Where did you buy it from?

You don't sound that much of a newby!

Alexxx

[Space Bat]

I think you must have experienced not the best seeing ?

A good rule for planets is to look straight up at the brightest star and see how much it twinkles and gradually work down to the level where Betelguese or 30-40 degrees up from the Horizon and look at the level of twinkling you get...or vice versa, whatever you prefer.

Too much twinkling at the Zenith then for sure, the seeing will be pretty bad for observing planets and will be near impossible for grabbing detail in modest scopes - if only the lower stars twinkle but much better towards the Zenith then seeing is average...so could get some nice views.

No twinkling at either = get your scope on a planet quick

Chris

[TopHouse]

@Astrosurf, my eyes aint that young either (I'm 45) and i wear glasses the rings for the hperion are brilliant, and I LOVE my 8mm hyperion. The rings are baader fine adjustment rings, there are 2 available, you really need both. One is 14mm and the other 28mm, if you hold your hyperion and grip the 1.25 part and twist, it will unscrew, the rings go in between the two pieces you now have giving you a larger focal length. The autofocuser is an absolute dream come true! Easy to fit and if you look around you will get one for £40.

8mm hyperion on it's own = 8mm

with 14mm ring added = 6mm

with 24mm ring added = 5mm

with BOTH rings added = 4.3mm

The rings are approx £10 each, taking it down to the 4.3 is BRILLIANT for planets on the 200p, also get a couple of filters, red/orange, yellow, blue and a moon filter, the red brings out detail for mars I find.

Last night, an 'eyeball judgment' said it was lovelly and clear, I tend to go off as many as you can see as well as twinkle and last night a LOT of stars were visible, but I know from testing mars again that it definitely wasn't as good as I've had, could just pick out the very slightest dark patch on mars and no ice cap (that was on my feet!) so i know seeing wasn't great, it was the 'shimmer' that i'd never seen before. Possibly the heat transfer thing. mind you, I've had it before where I've brought the scope in and had a look down the hole and the mirror has been coated with a layer of ice!

[pvaz]

When that happens taking the mag down a notch helps as it makes the planet smaller but sharper.

Some nights I go up to 300-340x on planets, others I stay under 200x. The seeing conditions decide that for you and you'll soon get used to that. It's all about making the best out of the conditions you have on any given night.

[themos]

This is the shimmering effect on the Moon

[TopHouse]

That's it! Except my actual 'shimmer' was worse and more patchy, it'd be a fairly decent view, then a bad shimmer for a second or two, then a decent view, but as i said, my 'shimmer' was worse, (because of high mag maybe) What is the cause of that shimmer?

[themos]

Movements of air masses of different temperatures. Some local effects are created by central heating exhausts or roof tiles giving out heat, others are caused high up in the atmosphere.

[TopHouse]

Think mine must have been the high up kind then, so it it a common thing or does it happen quite often? That moon video would have been quite nice without it.

[themos]

It happens (almost) all the time in the UK. Some other latitudes are luckier and they get steadier "seeing". There's a reason that UK scientists pioneered radio astronomy, you know...

[TopHouse]

Joddy bank aint too far from me, not been there for years though, there was talk of closing down the visitors center at one time, don't know if they ever did though. Think the Tom Baker incarnation of Dr Who died there too. Whatever that has to do with shimmering i have no idea lol

Last night though it was bad, I know I'm only a noob but never noticed it before on my 6 or so nights I've managed.

[david o]

Here's a guide on Cloudy Nights that explains seeing really well:- The Atmosphere and Observing - A guide to Astronomical seeing.

Must be good... even I can understand it !

[nicnac]

informative find, thanks

[Astrosurf]

Many thanks TopHouse! I'll give the rings and focusers a go!

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