Sunday 17th Jan

[Andros]

Hello all,

I set up my scope (150pl eq3) Sunday night 4 days after recieving it, and had what i thought was a good first night.

Setting up the scope went well,the tracking was good. Found Mars and Saturn, but i couldn't get a sharp focus on Saturn on a the highest magnification. And Mars seemed like a big bright star, not much detail at all.

I could see the rings on Saturn using an 10mm and 25mm EP but it was out of focus when i used my barlow, (x2).

The two EP's and barlow came with the scope, and what im trying to figure out is whether to blame the ep's or bad seeing, (could be some other reason i dont know about). I know the supplied ep's with the scope are not the best, and would be good to know if anyone else has compared them to others.

Apparently Sunday was a good seeing night, should i have been able to reach higher magnifications? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Andy.

[Doc]

You can easily go past the perfect focus point when adjusting the focuser knob. Try adjusting the focuser slower and see if this helps.

Seeing can also play a major part in it as well. If the planets were low down you are looking through the Earth's atmosphere and this has the tendancy to blur the views.

[yeti monster]

It could be your barlow, I know mine is little more than useless, especially with the shorter focus EPs.

I have found that it is better to settle for lower mags on planets unless the seeing is particularly good.

I'm hoping that, as i can replace my EPs with better quality ones, things will improve considerably, but I have certainly given up on my Barlow.

[Doc]

It could be your barlow, I know mine is little more than useless, especially with the shorter focus EPs.

I have found that it is better to settle for lower mags on planets unless the seeing is particularly good.

I'm hoping that, as i can replace my EPs with better quality ones, things will improve considerably, but I have certainly given up on my Barlow.

So true. I never use a barlow for this reason.

[dobserver]

I've never been impressed by mine either - Carl was adamant I 'needed' one, but I've found it does make everything blurry. I've come to the conclusion I'd rather see less close up but crisper

[pvaz]

I found the same problem with my cheap barlow. On Mars it's indead small but very bright. I been using the neutral density filter recently when observing Mars so I can pick some detail. Even at 240x it's very small, best I can see is the white (tiny) polar, which is quite easy to spot besides the small size, and some darker features on the surface. I actually sow more of it about 3 weeks ago when it was smaller bit not so bright.

So true. I never use a barlow for this reason.

I hope I don't crash and burn!!! I just based my EP upgrade on the use of barlows to keep costs down. Got a Nagler 31mm, an Ethos 10mm, a TV big barlow and an Antares 2" 1.6x barlow on the way.

I hope the reviews I read saying this 2 specific barlows behave "as if they're not there" are true...

Edit: Sorry for the off topic, but those words about barlows just gave me the chills...

[dobserver]

Mine was by no means a swanky one, which I'm sure is the problem!!

[Andros]

You can easily go past the perfect focus point when adjusting the focuser knob. Try adjusting the focuser slower and see if this helps.

Seeing can also play a major part in it as well. If the planets were low down you are looking through the Earth's atmosphere and this has the tendancy to blur the views.

I take your point on the focusing, i was getting alot of scope shake at higher mags, thats when i realised how useful an auto focuser might be, but i'm pretty sure i got it as good as possible, will be trying again soon weather permitting.

[Andros]

It could be your barlow, I know mine is little more than useless, especially with the shorter focus EPs.

I have found that it is better to settle for lower mags on planets unless the seeing is particularly good.

I'm hoping that, as i can replace my EPs with better quality ones, things will improve considerably, but I have certainly given up on my Barlow.

Hi thanks for advice, what do you think of Tal barlows?, they seem resonably priced.

[John]

The TAL barlows are very good quality for the price. They look "workmanlike" rather than glossy in their construction but optically they are very good.

I'm another who has given up with barlows now though, not so much for optical quality issues, but to save the hassle of fiddling with another componant in the dark.

[lostinspace]

I hope I don't crash and burn!!! I just based my EP upgrade on the use of barlows to keep costs down.QUOTE]

me too:eek: i have found my x2 barlow with 10mm excelent for viewing the moon but had problems with focus on mars. i thiught maybie the quality of the barlow was low? i`ve recently been looking at at barlow x3 lenses, can anyone shed light on wether this would improve my views of mars( assuming that the viewing is optimum)? many thanks,

john

[russ]

Hello all,

I set up my scope (150pl eq3) Sunday night 4 days after recieving it, and had what i thought was a good first night.

Setting up the scope went well,the tracking was good. Found Mars and Saturn, but i couldn't get a sharp focus on Saturn on a the highest magnification. And Mars seemed like a big bright star, not much detail at all.

I could see the rings on Saturn using an 10mm and 25mm EP but it was out of focus when i used my barlow, (x2).

The two EP's and barlow came with the scope, and what im trying to figure out is whether to blame the ep's or bad seeing, (could be some other reason i dont know about). I know the supplied ep's with the scope are not the best, and would be good to know if anyone else has compared them to others.

Apparently Sunday was a good seeing night, should i have been able to reach higher magnifications? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Andy.

I guess that was a little disappointing to see nothing on Mars and only a fuzzy Saturn. But fear not, there could be a heap of reasons.

Mars on the 17th was showing it's boring side. At first glance there's nothing to see other than the polar cap. Add to this, Mars really wants high mags to have a fair chance at seeing some extra detail and also reducing the glare a bit. And even then you have to be prepared to put in lots of time at the eyepiece. Mars isn't one of those objects that you look at for 30secs and move on. It needs time for your eye to adapt and start seeing the finer detail. Stick with it, Mars can deliver.

Do you mind me asking what time you viewed Saturn? Only Saturn won't reach a good height until the early hours (2am onwards). Around midnight for instance the view would be dreadful, even in the worlds best telescope with the worlds best ever eyepiece.

Of the two eyepieces that come with the scope, the 25mm is okay. But the 10mm less so. The deluxe barlow that comes with your scope is not too bad either, on a par with the 25mm.

There's some excellent quality 2nd hand eyepieces around that go for silly money (£15 up) that would help your planetary viewing no end. A 6-7mm Ortho would give wonderful views and only cost £20(ish).

Personally i think the 10mm is the weak link, so buying another barlow wouldn't solve the problem.

Also, dare i bring up the 'collimation' word?

Russ

[Andros]

I guess that was a little disappointing to see nothing on Mars and only a fuzzy Saturn. But fear not, there could be a heap of reasons.

Mars on the 17th was showing it's boring side. At first glance there's nothing to see other than the polar cap. Add to this, Mars really wants high mags to have a fair chance at seeing some extra detail and also reducing the glare a bit. And even then you have to be prepared to put in lots of time at the eyepiece. Mars isn't one of those objects that you look at for 30secs and move on. It needs time for your eye to adapt and start seeing the finer detail. Stick with it, Mars can deliver.

Do you mind me asking what time you viewed Saturn? Only Saturn won't reach a good height until the early hours (2am onwards). Around midnight for instance the view would be dreadful, even in the worlds best telescope with the worlds best ever eyepiece.

Of the two eyepieces that come with the scope, the 25mm is okay. But the 10mm less so. The deluxe barlow that comes with your scope is not too bad either, on a par with the 25mm.

There's some excellent quality 2nd hand eyepieces around that go for silly money (£15 up) that would help your planetary viewing no end. A 6-7mm Ortho would give wonderful views and only cost £20(ish).

Personally i think the 10mm is the weak link, so buying another barlow wouldn't solve the problem.

Also, dare i bring up the 'collimation' word?

Russ

Hiya Russ,

The highest mag i got on Mars was 10mm + 2x barlow, (10 mm is my highest ep), it seemed very bright, almost starlike, would i need a filter? Cant remember how sharp the image was to be honest, all i remember is the brightness, im sure it was Mars, checked on Stellarium. I spent about 20 minutes observing it, but I do have quite a bit of light pollution around me, neigbours security lights etc. But having said that i have only managed to use my scope that one time, (clouds:clouds2:) so im sure your right and my observing will improve with practice.

I got to Saturn around 12 , it appeard in focus and very sharp using my 10mm ep, its only when i added the 2x Barlow when it looked fuzzy. But its probably the combination of too early for Saturn and not too good 10mm ep. Still a lovely view, i could see the rings, it was an awsome sight, but just wanted to get that bit closer.

Good to here the 25mm ep and barlow are ok for now, do you think i should replace the 10mm with another 10 or should i go for an 8mm or something similar? I just recieved a 30mm and 15mm which were thrown in by the store, (it took many calls and a final threat of calling Trading standards before i finally got them from this well known online retailer who offer free binos, mentioning no names:icon_scratch:) Just seen you recommend 6-7mm orthos, whats the difference between that and plossl?

I checked the collimation, against a star, brought it out of focus and checked that the rings were evenly spaced around the star, thats as far as i went with that, its seemed good, but as it was my first time, im sure checking it again wouldn't hurt, i looked through the ep holder(cant remember proper name) and could see my eye centered, how accurate is it to do it this way? I was thinking parallax error would scew the check but i tried to get my eye centered on the ep holder. Should i use film cannister method?

Quick questions that are on my mind and would like to ask now...(not just to you Russ, but anyone can feel free to reply if they have the time) Can you stack barlows? add a 2x on a 3x, i could see how it would effect the image using poor barlows, but what about top quality ones? I got a feeling its not the done thing, but not sure why? Not that id be splashing out on high end barlows just yet, but im just a bit curious about that.

Also, moon filters, do i need one? because i read i could just use my telescope cap and take off the smaller cap for viewing the moon, does this work?

Thanks again for your reply, and to everyone who have taken the time to reply, cheers!

Andy

[russ]

Hi Andy,

Stacking barlows is common thing but more for the planetary imaging guys. Not something for visual use.

Keep an eye on the secondhand ads (on SGL and UK Astro Buy'n'sell). Some cracking eyepieces come up for silly money. The Orthos are a planetary observers dream. A clean design with minimum glass elements. Super sharp and bags of contrast. For minimum money they are hard to beat. A 6-8mm would be a good planetary eyepiece size that can be used on most nights of the year. The 8mm could be barlowed to give 300x in the 150PL which is proving a very good magnification for Mars. And with Jupiter rising up high over the coming years, it may prove useful for that too. But the 8mm alone at 150x is something that should be useful almost every night.

Stopping down the aperture is a good way to reduce the glare from the moon. Or buy an ND filter, this just reduces the glare without altering the colour of the view.

The 30mm and 15mm nicely pad out your eyepiece collection. Try barlowing the 15mm to make it a 7.5mm. That should give a sharp 160x.

Regards

Russ

[pvaz]

I can confirm the sharpness and contrast you can achieve with orthos. I have 2 baader orthos and they are great, easily my best 2 EPs at the moment.

The downside of orthos is that the FOV (field of view) is very narrow, and the ER (eye relief, distance you need to keep your eye from the EP) is very short. So they are hard to use if you were glasses. The cheapest high quality Orthos seam to come from University Optics, sold as Circle-T in UK. The baader ones are said to be a step ahead but cost a bit more, but it seams the difference is barely noticeable. Never used a UO Ortho so that's all based on reviews I read.

If you do were glasses there are other alternatives such as the William Optics SPL planetary EPs. Those seam to have a good reputation, though I can't confirm since I never owned one.

[yesyes]

Mars on the 17th was showing it's boring side.

Indeed. I was imaging Mars that same night with my webcam and 3x + 2x barlow. All I saw in the image was an orange blob and the polar ice cap. Then I checked in Stellarium and saw that it's showing the boring side. The worst is that this won't change much over the next few days/weeks. And that at exactly the time when Mars appears biggest for the next 2 years-ish... How disappointing, Mars!

[russ]

The downside of orthos is that the FOV (field of view) is very narrow, and the ER (eye relief, distance you need to keep your eye from the EP) is very short. So they are hard to use if you were glasses. The cheapest high quality Orthos seam to come from University Optics, sold as Circle-T in UK. The baader ones are said to be a step ahead but cost a bit more, but it seams the difference is barely noticeable. Never used a UO Optic so that's all based on review I read.

Yes i forgot to mention the downsides to the Ortho.....which are the reasons i recently sold mine. If these cons are not an issue the ortho is the one to go for.

Real shame we get the boring side for Mars opposition.

[glowjet]

Hi Andy,

I see you have had quite a response to your ep/barlow inquiry, for my two pennyworth if you want to go with the Moon and Planets and splitting doubles etc go with the orthoscopic, the circle T are excellent value, they are hand made by a very elderly Japanese craftsman in Tokyo and distributed by Kokusai Kohki, I purchased mine direct a few years ago, but the exchange rate will make them expensive now, but they can be had at reasonable prices secondhand. Instead of a barlow consider a Powermate, have a look at TeleVue and Meade, there is some info on the USA Cloudy Nights forum, but they are expensive.

John.

[Andros]

Hello all,

Lots of meat to chew on in your replys, thanks again!

I think I will stick with the 4 eps and barlow i have for now, since i've only used my scope once, and maybe look at a good quality second hand barlow and 8mm ortho later.

I'll try stopping down the aperture on the moon first and see what that looks like before i get a filter.

But having said that, what do you guys think of the Revelation Photo-Visual Eyepiece kitEyepiece Sets - Revelation Photo-Visual Eyepiece kit

I know its budget but any good? compared to what i got?

Anyone got a link to Circle T eyepeices, curious to see how much hey cost.

Hiya John, Just when i thought i had it sussed you throw a powermate into the equation, had a brief look on Green Witch astronomy web site and this is what it said

"Barlow lenses increase the eye-relief which can be an advantage with cheaper eyepieces that have poor eye-relief on their own. However, with longer focal length eyepieces, especially modern ones designed to have good eye-relief, a Barlow lens can push the exit pupil too far from the eyepiece causing vignetting and making the combination hard to use.TeleVue's Powermates were designed to overcome this problem. They preserve the original eye-relief and are especially good for imaging as well as visual use."

Whats "Vignetting?"

thanks again and hope we get some clear skies soon.

Andy

[pvaz]

They sell the same EP under 3 brands, all come from the same Japanese factory.

UK brand: Lyra Optic - Eyepieces

Import:

USA brand: Eyepieces - 1 1/4" Oculars from University Optics

Japanese brand: Kokusai Kohki goods

The baader ones can be found here: Baader Planetarium - Baader Genuine Orthoscopic

The University Optics HD version is the same as the baader, they say but with better coating on the baader version. They do look the same. The main advantages of the baader and UO HD version over the others, are better quality coatings for contrast and parfocal (means you can change between 2 of this eps and you won't need to adjust focus, just a tiny bit sometimes).

[Andros]

Hi Pvas,

thanks for links and info, would be nice to get a good ep, will wait to see how i get on in this hobby. Good thing about eps i suppose is you can always keep them when you upgrade scopes, will look at second hand threads i think. Cheers.

Andy.

[russ]

Yes that's the beauty of eyepieces, if they are good they stay with you. Better still, if you buy secondhand, you won't lose any money even if you do want to sell.

[Andros]

Yes that's the beauty of eyepieces, if they are good they stay with you. Better still, if you buy secondhand, you won't lose any money even if you do want to sell.

Thats what i have in mind Russ, cant seem to find the second hand equipment threads though.

[pvaz]

For Sale - Stargazers Lounge

[Andros]

For Sale - Stargazers Lounge

ta.