NightLaw Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 All,Many of you were kind enough to reply to my previous post, I am new, this would be my first scope for me and my 8yr old Son.Honest Opinion please, is this a good scope to start with? From what I have read it seems to get many thumbs up, good Aperture, good Optics, good EQ.....It looks quite big!!! Question - how do you guys store these things? Can you leave them outside covered up?I have heard about Cool down time, I take it this is the time it takes the lens/mirros etc to 'contract' to original position from the heat of the house......CheersKeith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLO Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Yes, it is very good indeed. (There are also a number available in the For Sale section at the moment). Ideally you will be able to leave your scope setup in a garage or shed; covering it with a patio-heater cover from B&Q or similar should keep the cobwebs out. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLaw Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Also, would I be able to fit a motor to it, so I can control it via the laptop i.e. with Stellarium? I'm new..go easy on me.oh, the Explorer in question is £200..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLO Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It depends on the mount. If it is supplied with a Skywatcher EQ5 or Celestron CG5 then you can fit motors but you would need a full GOTO upgrade kit if you want to control it from a laptop. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 You can control the EQ5 from a laptop but you'll need the Synscan version of the mount. The drives used to be available as an upgrade for fitting later.The 200P tube itself is superb. Give you good views of everything.The only downside to this setup with your young son will be getting him near the eyepiece. EQ mounted newts get in some very very awkward positions which make getting to the eyepiece awkward for a tall adult let alone an 8 year old. You can get round part of the problem by twisting the tube in the rings. This puts the eyepiece in a better position. Even then you'll need steps or a box/milk crate handy. That is the only downside really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLO Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Aah, I missed the part about it being for an 8-year old. Good point Russ. Also, I have noticed that kids like their telescopes to look like telescopes, at least initially, so he might prefer a refractor. Something like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yep the beauty of the refractor is that the opposite of the Newt applies. It too will get in some awkward positions (part and parcel of having a long tube on an EQ mount). But this time it will be too to the benefit of your son. However you may find yourself kneeling or lying on the floor while trying to look through the finderscope. I agree with, Steve, your son will find the refractor far more impressive, far more telescope like. My sons think our Lidls 70mm £50 bargain basement scope looks far better than either the dob or the Meade SCT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvaz Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I leave mine in the garage or the living room by the front door.On size, when fully assembled it's about as tall as an adult.This article explain a lot of things about a similar setup and haves some pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepitis Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I own one of the 200p's and its an excellent scope. I also own a 4" refractor which is also superb.However the reflector (200p) is in my opinion a better "all-rounder" and if I could keep only one of the scopes it would be the 200p.As to the question of which looks like a "real" telescope, it all depends on whether you prefer looking AT a telescope or looking THROUGH it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLaw Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thanks again for the replies.My Son really isn't bothered what the scope looks like, al he cares about is what he can see through it.This is where my inexperience kicks in, I like the Reflector as more Aperture etc for your money.So, if the aperture on the Refractor is so much smaller (as they generally seem to be) can you see as much with it?The Explorer I was looking at seems to have gone.Invaluable as always though!!!!No doubt my next post will be along shortly....still learning with many questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 You won't see as much with a 4.7" refractor but it's still a very capable scope on all objects. 8" just seems to be the best balance of aperture and ease of use. Shame you can't find a secondhand 8" SCT on a fork mount. Something like an older Celestron Celstar or Meade LX10/LX50/LX90. It would be such a joy to use for you and your son. The eyepiece doesn't get anywhere awkward. Remind me, what was your budget? Could you stretch to one of the Celestron SE models? There's also a Celestron XLT127 SCT being offered on UK Buy'n'sell at the moment for £300. They are offering it with either the Celestron CG4 or Skywatcher Synscan AltAz mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLaw Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thanks Russ, I was ideally looking around the £200 mark max...maybe with a bit of give for the right unit.The Skymax 127 seems perfect but at £369...it's a little too muchhttp://www.telescopeplanet.co.uk/ViewProdDetails.asp?name=Skywatcher SKYMAX-127 SynScan™ AZ GOTO Black Telescope&prod_code=PON08J000122I will look over the options you have mentioned, look around the net in a bit and let you know...Also what is SCT and OCT?ThanksKeith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpookyKatt Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Like many others I have a 200P and a 4 inch refractor, they'reboth good scopes although as others have said you can see morewith the 200P. Mind you the best view I've had of Jupiter andSaturn has been through the refractor.The 200P is a great scope to start with.Kathleen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinB Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 For an 8 year old I would recommend a decent quality alt azimuth mount. They are much easier to to set up and intuitive to use than a german equatorial. A 3 inch refractor will be ideal. It will be his scope, one he can set up on his own and explore for himself. The 2 of you could explore the night sky together without a scope, learn the constellations and the brighter stars. Find your way around. Perhaps get some binoculars and have a look at highligths such as the moon, M45 M42. Then show him how to find M31.With the scope he can start off on the moon. See if he can learn a few craters and tell what makes up the man in the moon. The bright planets are really exciting especially Saturn. He could then move onto the bright DSOs and gradually start extending his skills.I hope he gets the bug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Have you consider an 8" dob?In my opinion, the best scope to start with, especially with kids. Great views and comfortable positions in any part of the sky, plus, it´s very easy to setup. I would only purchase an eq mount to get into AP. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvaz Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Have you consider an 8" dob?In my opinion, the best scope to start with, especially with kids. Great views and comfortable positions in any part of the sky, plus, it´s very easy to setup. I would only purchase an eq mount to get into AP. Good luck. I couldn't agree more. Nothing beats the simplicity of a dob and the comfortable sitting down position from witch you can observe with an 8" dob.Anyway, and forgive me for insisting, I think a smaller scope with AZ GOTO mount would be better for someone with a kid. The kid won't like to freeze out in the cold while you are trying to find something or have to climb a leader to be able to take a peek at the EP (witch will happen with the EQ mount but can be avoided with a dob). With a dob or an unmotorized EQ, objects drift away fast without tracking. You'll have to ask the kid to move away every 60 seconds, at high magnification, to get the object back in the FOV. It's OK for you alone when you get the hang of it and you adjust while keeping your eye at the EP. Not so fun for someone else having to wait for you to track stuff.If I had kids, my 1st scope would have been a nice SCT or MAK with GOTO. Since I don't, and I don't mind freezing while I enjoy hunting objects, I chose an 8" dob instead. Even so mine has goto because I wanted to play safe and avoid frustration in case locating stuff was too hard. It isn't after you have some practice as long as you know the constellations and you have a star atlas and a red dot finder fitted on the scope (I recommend the telrad). Still it's slower then goto for objects far from bright stars to serve as guide posts.I decided I'm goin to use goto on my next sessions. I'm trying to go through some lists and recently the sky gets covered with clouds really fast. I'll try out the goto to see if I can run through my targets faster. Although I love finding things myself, I am comfortable doing it now and I won't forget my way around the sky by using GOTO a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLaw Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hello Pvaz, so would recommend something like this SKYHAWK-1145P SynScan™ AZ GOTO 114mm (4.5"), would this give good Planetary images as I think that is going to be key to getting my 8yr old hooked, and give me an excuse to buy myself a 6 or 8" unit.I have really been struggling with what is the right way to go, I was looking at a 150/200p Explorer but as it is big and none motorised on an EQ5 mount would have issues with my Son.The Dob, looks great , fits the budget and I'd get a 6" Aperture to boot - issue with this is finding/tracking objects - unless you guys can tell me otherwise.The Skyhawk sems a useful unit, anyone know what the optics/EP's are like and would this be an all round package for my son to get hooked/get my interest level up enough to warranty splashing out on a larger unit.?ThanksKeith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLaw Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 or something like this for a Refractor? Which would be easy for him to look through and can you add a tracking motor to this?Celestron Omni XLT 102thanksKeith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepitis Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Theres a 6" Skywatcher reflector on a motorized mount for sale on this forum for £170, might be worth a look ?http://stargazerslounge.com/sale/92676-skywatcher-150pl-motored-eq3-2-bits.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLaw Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 I looked at that unit a little earlier as it did catch my eye, although my concern was it's size and my 8yr old struggling to look through the EP, it tracks which is good and it's great Aperture to start out with....If I could get all that in a smaller unit that he could look through easily then I would be happy.......Just want to ensure I get best I can all round i.e. ease of use, aperture, good optics for the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLaw Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 if it was just for me I would rip Crepitis's arm off! and am still tempted too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepitis Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 To be honest, I have owned Dobsonian scopes, and currently own equatorialy mounted reflectors and refractors and my kids never really had any problem looking through the eyepiece on any of them, at the worst they stood on a little plastic step like you can buy from IKEA or B&Q etc.If you look at the pictures the tripod legs are extended, making the mount even higher, just use the tripod without extending the legs.Bye the way, its not me that is selling the skywatcher scope, I just thought that it might be what you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvaz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 or something like this for a Refractor? Which would be easy for him to look through and can you add a tracking motor to this?Celestron Omni XLT 102thanksKeithIn that price range you have this reflector on a motorized AZ mount with GOTO and 5" aperture that should be enough for the Messier DSOs and some bright NGC objects, besides the clusters, planets, double stars and moon that can be seen with less aperture:Reflectors - Skywatcher Explorer 130P SynScan AZ GOTOAdd a nice 2x barlow and you'll have 36x, 72x, 90x and 180x available from the start witch covers most of your needs for planetary and DSOs.My only doubt is whether the EP will be too high from the ground when pointing up. I'm not sure if it will be too far up for the kid. But if you give a call to FLO I'm sure they can see that and tell you something. I understand your desire to have an 8" dob very well. If your kid is the patient type maybe he won't mind waiting. If he's a fast learner and likes science related stuff, he may even enjoy helping you find objects, reading star charts and learn how to adjust the scope while observing. If thats the case maybe a 6/8" dob may be an option.EDIT: I just want to make clear a small scope isn't a kids scope. You'll also see plenty with it and it can be an excellent, portable, starter scope. You'll even want to keep it as a "grab and go" scope if you buy a bigger one later on. You would need the extra aperture to see the "faint fuzzy" galaxies and nebula more defined, but they will still be just a gray smudge even on a 8" inch scope. The biggest WOW factor comes from objects perfectly visible in a 5" such as andromeda galaxy, jupiter, saturn, moon, some clusters and of course the orion nebula. For some of theses even binos are enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLaw Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Thanks Paulo,What would you define then as a 'small scope', 4 - 5" as a minimum? This would see Planetary objects as you mentioned in previous post etc.i.e. SKYHAWK-1145P/Explorer 130p SynScan™ AZ GOTO 114mm/130mm, or would this small Dob be any use - Skywatcher Heritage 130p Flextube, have read though that the EP's aren't great and spending a little extra would get something a bit better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvaz Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 For planets, moon, double stars even a 70mm to 100mm refractor is enough.Aperture becomes a must for Deep Sky Objects, such as galaxies and nebulas. Although there are a some nebulas with spectacular shapes and "texture", such as the veil nebula, where aperture is a must, most nebula and galaxies appear as gray smudges even on large scopes. The joy on this types of objects is finding them, since they are very hard to spot, and having the knowledge of what you are looking at.As you can see on the signatures many veteran members have at least one small scope in their collection they use as a grab and go and for planetary observation.To have a 2nd oppinion take a look at this review by an experienced member:http://www.astro-baby.com/reviews/Sky-Watcher%20130PM/Sky-Watcher%20130PM%20Review.htmThe review is on the same scope mounted on a EQ mount instead of AZ GOTO so visually it performs the same. The 130p is not that small, you should confirm the height of the ep when pointing up close to zenith to see if your kid could reach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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