Beginner deciding between a refractor and reflector

[dreamliner]

Hey Guys!

Although I must admit that I am a real noob in astronomy, I developed a real interest for this wonderful hobby and would like to buy my first telescope. Now, after doing some research and reading online I have brought down my options to 2 possible scopes which fall within my budget (up to 500-600EUR). These are:

1. The Skywatcher DOB 8": Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian

2. Bresser AC 127/1200 Messier MON-2 : Bresser Telescope AC 127/1200 Messier MON-2

The reason why I think the 8" dob would be good for me is that it is relatively easy to use and from what I understand it is kind of "idiot proof" From what I read and heard...I will be able to see our closest planets and depending on a large number of factors, distinguish various details on the moon, saturn and jupiter. Also I believe that I can HOPEFULLY at least locate and see the M42 and M31. The problem for me with this sort of mounting is that taking pictures of galaxies and maybe nebulae will be almost impossible. This is the reason why I believe that the Bresser scope with an equatorial mounting will allow me (with a lot of practice) eventually to take some longer exposure shots of galaxies and/or planets. Although I am not 100% that I got it all correct.

Could someone please help me out on this...which telescope would you recommend for someone who wants to see and also take some pictures (which don't need to be ideal but still something I can amaze my family and close friends with).

After reading this forum and doing some research I understood that I won't see fancy colored pictures as found through google images...but for me being able to take a photo of a fuzzy B&W M42 would be a real achievement .

I will be very happy to get any feedback from you as real professionals so that I don't end up very disappointed if I choose the wrong scope.

Massive thanks in advance!

John.

[Beyond_Vision]

The refractor you have listed has a very slow focal ratio of F9.4 and that in combination with the mount not being driven and having no goto or autoguiding capability would mean its not suitable for astrophotography. It even says so in the advert.

You would be better off putting your money into a better mount and a smaller lower focal ratio refractor. You will need at the least a mount with an RA motor drive

Regards

Kevin

[alfi]

hi

a very popular scope for imaging is the skywatcher / celestron 80mm ed`s.

but as kevin says, a best possible mount is a good start, the scopes is easy to upgrade later, but the mounts are a bigger investment, so if you can, put some money into the mount.

alfi

[John]

Hi John, from another John - welcome to SGL

I've owned both the scopes you list and they are both good for visual observing but are not really suited to astrophotograpy as other posters have said.

My advice would be to hold back from the photographic side for now - it's a whole new world of techniques, equipment and expense, quite different from visual observing - a hobby in it's own right in fact.

Personally I would recommend that you try some visual observing first and learn the sky and how a scope works. By the time you have spent a few months doing that you will know whether you want to pursue the photography side of things and can develop your setup in that direction.

The Skyliner 200P dobsonian is a pretty good all round scope for visual observing. Dead simple to setup and use, decent aperture so impressive views - those alone will be enough to amaze your friends and family !.

Anyway, that's my take on it - others may have alternative advice to offer of course

John

[brianb]

Anyway, that's my take on it

FWIW I'm in 100% agreement.

[davinchi]

There´s a HEQ5 for sale in the used equipment forum, I had one and performs very well up to 10Kg in equipment... That with a ED80 would be a nice start and would let you take some pictures... About for visual use it´s better a nice dobsonian, as aperture rules and for taking a look at deepsky it´s a winner, a 250mm dobson will make you wonders, however it´ll take some time to locate the objects, so you´ll have to be patient...

I started with a HEQ5 and a refractor and will never regret it, later I jumped to a EQ6 / C11 ED80 combo. However a lot of people start with a dobsonian and learn their way in the stars...

[Demonperformer]

If you go for the dob you can use it to learn your way around and enjoy the view. If you decide you then want to get into imaging, you can look around for a decent mount and attach the dob ota to it.

[dreamliner]

Thanks for all the info guys and cheers for the kind welcome John!

I have now decided to skip refractors and concentrate on reflectors. After reading some of the older posts here I get a feeling that the Skywatcher N 200/1000 BlackDiamond NEQ-5 (Skywatcher Telescope N 200/1000 BlackDiamond NEQ-5) might be an even better choice that the dobson. It has the same aperture but comes with a EQ-5 mount, just as everyone suggests. Do you think I will mange with setting it up or is the process a bit too complex for a newbie? I have also read Astro Babys review of a similar telescope but it seems to me that one needs to have some knowledge about the mounts and how to use them before being able to assemble it. What's your opinion on this guys...should I just stick to the dobson?

Thanks and sorry if my questions are too lame...I just didn't know where else to start

John.

[Astro_Baby]

I think in truth ANY scope you buy comes with a steep learning curve. The hobby isnt 'user friendly' in many ways as a look through the forums here will show. What you can rely on is the friendship of other astronomers to pitch in and help out.

THe 200/EQ5 combination is very good and lots of people have bought them. The EQ5 mount that comes with it isnt as strong as the HEQ5 and may limit you later on. Are EQ mounts complicated ? Well I never found them tough BUT lots of people do. Once you get the hang of it its easy enough.

Something to think about more than the complexity of set-up is transporting it all. An EQ adds to the weight of carrying stuff around.

I'd kind of agree about astrophotography that its a specialisation in its own right. A Refelector can be an awesome piece of astro-imaging gear but they are expensive to gear up for to do imaging. Lots of imagers run with refractors.

I started off assuming I would do imaging. I quickly realised the cost/complexity was beyond me. I just dont have that amount of cash or time to spend on the hobby and there are other reasons too.

[Moonshane]

hi John

I am a complete novice too but bought a Celestron 120 XLT refractor which is on the supplied CG-4 equitorial (eq) mount. I am used to 'normal' mounts being previously a keen birdwatcher and still a keen photographer but found the eq mount quite easy to use after just a couple of sessions. for visual use, all I do is point the axis of the mount (my tripod has a useful 'N' sticker on it) to the north (I just use a compass as I am such a numptie that I have not even managed to find Polaris yet - what an admission!) and then away you go. with the scope/mount balanced (important - read the manual that comes with it) release the clutch tabs (or whatever they are called) and get used to how the thing moves about on the mount. Just use the finder scope to find what you want (make sure the finder and scope are aligned before you start searching - also important and in the manual) and then lock the clutch tabs and use the manual gears (usually just one of them most of the time but the other occasionally) to keep things in the eyepiece.

I have already seen all the things you mention in a couple of months (which means about 3 clear nights of course!). The Orion nebula is truly lovely no matter what scope you use.

Don't worry abut the mount, you'll get used to it but I agree, buy the best quality mount you can. A motor/GOTO can be useful but you don't really need it for visual use and I like the idea that I am learning the skies (slowly) rather than learning how to punch (e.g. Polaris ha ha) into a keypad. Each to their own though.

I have already concluded that a larger mount and larger aperture newtonian reflector will supplement the refractor and if you can afford both in time then I think it's a good idea. There's always another birthday or Christmas coming up!

Another thing to consider which I don't think others have mentioned yet is eyepieces. They can be more expensive than the OTA on their own. I think the general consensus is that three are best - low, medium and high power but a lot of people also seem to suggest a zoom is a good idea. just something to think about. oh, and make sure you get a good quality moon filter - it really makes your eye ache when looking at the almost full moon without one - I know, I tried it - won't do again!

I final word on what to expect which you hinted at. You may initially feel disappointed in what you see as everyone sees the hubble images and expects something similar with a good scope. Think about what you are seeing with your own eyes and you don't really need all the spectacular colours to be amazed!

anyway, I've waffled on enough. hope this helps from one newbie to another!

cheers

Shane

[dreamliner]

Thanks for all the input guys! I think it's best for me to get the simplest 8" dob and start off by just finding and looking at planets and some closer galaxies rather than buying a very expensive mounting and not being able to use it afterward. Maybe I can even get away with taking a few pics of the moon with my digital camera directly through the eyepiece .

Shane, really appreciate your feedback and the share of experience!

And Astro Baby you were very right about people willing to help out with advice...thanks a million to all of you guys!

Oh, and does anybody know what is the cheapest-most reliable online store to buy from if the scope is to be shipped within Europe? Astroshop.de?

Thanks,

John.

[resonator77]

FLO is a good and affordable place to buy, judging from my own experience

First Light Optics - Suppliers of Skywatcher, Celestron, William Optics, Meade, Coronado Solar, Tal, Burgess Optical, Baader Planetarium, Astrozap and Kendrick

[dreamliner]

Thanks! Will hopefully get my first telescope by the end of this month or early January

[great_bear]

The thing about choosing scopes is that you can go around in circles many times and really agonise over the decision.

However, you can rest assured that a 6" or 8" Dob is as fine a start as you could hope for. It's the kind of scope you can keep for a lifetime even after you've got a separate photo-rig whirring away to its next target.

You'll always find it useful - so resist the urge to sell it when you're after your second scope.

A good choice for sure.

[dreamliner]

Thanks Great Bear! That's exactly what I wanted to hear. Will let you know what happens when I receive it. Will be studying my way through Stellarium in the mean time ...the night sky is soooo complicated!