Working out my best home grab and go set up

[Paz]

I thought I would post about a great grab and go set up for home use that I have been working on.

I have been changing and trying to improve my set ups over time. Initially I was just enjoying getting into observing with smallish scopes, then the first improvements I made were to do with being able to see fainter objects better (i.e. aperture for DSOs), then over time my attention moved to being able to resolve better details in smaller and brighter objects (e.g. good refractors and observing technique for solar system and double stars), and then my attention moved to making my sessions as comfortable as possible (by trying to perfect things like binoviewing, eyepiece height, tracking, seating and posture, clothing for cold and hot weather, etc). After that and in recent years as the weather has become more persistently cloudy my attention has turned to making those sets ups as quick as possible to set up and take down (so things like pre-set finders, pre-loaded diagonals and eyepieces, not changing eyepieces in the field, simplifying as much as possible, etc). That has worked well and I can take out a big-ish scope such as a C8 or 125mm refractor on a Skytee 2 or EQ5 quickly. However it is still 3 or 4 trips out and back (mount, scope, observing chair, eyepiece/finders/other bits bag), and bringing things back in I have to take them apart and ensure things do not dew up and then put them safely away so the cats don't destroy anything overnight. So if I had an hour clear I could set up, observe for a bit, pack up and be done and it would be worth it but it takes some degree of commitment to go for it.

Recently I've recently been experimenting with various set ups to go one step further and have something I can take out and bring back much more easily and in one trip, with everything ready to go, and that I can bring back in and not have to take down and put all the bits away. I was thinking about other things we can do that compete with choosing to go out and observe and how easy and quick they are to start doing, like say watching something on Netflix, and I wanted a set up that was as easy and as quick to use as doing that. I have had such set ups in the past but I have never really put much thought into them and never had one that I stuck with due to vibes, or eyepiece height being too low without an observing seat or no slow motion controls, etc etc. I would go back to observing with better but more complex sets ups that meant observing less often. This time around I have kept with it, and every time I have been out and come across something I am not happy with I have been trying to fix it and this is paying off. I was keen to make the best of the kit I have and not problem solve by just buying more stuff, so what I have ended up with is within that context, i.e. not the best there is, but the best of what I have.

So in the end the set up is based around a Vixen Porta 2 mount and a 72mm f6 doublet refractor.

Mount

The mounts I had to choose from were:

Horizon 8115 - good for height adjustment but it can't balance in altitude (unless I make a contraption to enable this) and has no slow motion controls.

Neewer tripod with AZT6 - good for height but not so good for stability and no slow motion controls (being a home set up I don't need the small size or super light weight benefits of this mount).

Skytee 2 - too heavy.

EQ5 - too heavy and too complicated (counterweights weights to set up, more balancing to have to do etc)

Porta 2 - the best combination available to me - light enough, stable enough, and it has slow motion controls. It does not get the scope as high as I would like but I have figured out a few ways around this. One being to leave the spreader tray off the tripod and pull the tripod legs in to get more height from the tripod if I need it - this can add up to about 7cm of height without compromising stability or leading to tipping over risk as the scope I am using is compact. This doesn't sound like much but it does make a notable difference to observing comfort if I don't have an observing seat.

Scope

The smaller scopes I had to choose from were: 

Skywatcher ST80 f5 achromat - really light for the aperture but poor options for mounting finders on the version I have, and not enough in focus for some of the back ends that I use.

Skywatcher ST120 f5 achromat - too heavy/long to be what I would call easy to take out when already attached to a mount.

Messier MC127 f15 maksutov - too specialist, focuser is not the best, and options for mounting finders are not great on the one I have.

TS Optics Photoline TS72 - the best option that I have - it has good facilities for mounting finders, a good focuser, is easily adaptable between different uses (solar white light, solar Ha, lunar, deep sky, etc), and has good quality optics. The downsides of this scope though are the small aperture, it's quite heavy for its size (compared to the ST80) and that it is a short scope so balancing it with heavy loads at the back is a challenge. Historically I've used counterweights on the front of the dovetail to balance out heavy loads at the back which adds weight and set up time. Having mulled this problem over and played around a bit I've ended up with a longer dovetail bar on the scope, and I've enabled that to be run further back on the scope by pulling the scope rings closer together and by removing one of the finder shoes to allow enough clearance between the OTA and the dovetail to let the dovetail go so far back. This means I can balance just about any load at the back, light or heavy, by just moving the dovetail up or down in the mount. I've added a one-into-three finder shoe adapter to the remaining finder shoe so that I can still have any finder combination I want. I've also kept the stubby slow motion control knobs on rather than change back to longer ones as stubby ones are nice and easily to hand when at the eyepiece using a short scope.

That's the core of it. I've been testing out various ways of making the best of this which I'll add to this thread, for example to do with how to have everything I need right there on the scope or the tripod so that I don't need to use pockets or go and find bits I need from anywhere else when I decide to go out, getting the best configuration of where all the controls are when at the eyepiece, how to be able to go out for solar Ha one minute then solar white light the next or lunar the next with a minimum of re-configuration hassle with diagonals/filters/eyepieces etc, how to avoid the hassle of having to take out an observing seat (I historically don't like observing without a seat), how to avid having to constantly reconfigure and and align finders depending on what I'm observing, etc. The basic scope and mount are a good start but there are a number of little things about how I use them and set things up that have helped and I already have something that is very close to being as easy to use as watching Netflix (or even easier if you count the half an hour you then spend trying to decide what to watch once you've got Netflix on).

Edited June 14 by Paz

[Emperor!Takahashi!]

Nice Netflix killer 😎 I enjoyed reading about your approach!

[Ags]

It is very similar to my visual setup. I'm using and AZT6 on a carbon fibre tripod. The scope is a Zenithstar 66, and the one-and-only eyepeice is a Svbony 3-8. This gives a one-degree field of view and a max magnification of 130x, so it covers most requirements. 

I am actually toying with changing scopes to a Skymax 127 - that would still give a one-degree FOV with a wide 1.25” eyepiece, but I would need to do eyepiece changing for higher magnifications. I would also need to get a sturdier mount and tripod, so maybe I will just stick with what I have!

Edited June 15 by Ags

[RobertI]

Nice read! I can really relate to what you are trying to achieve. You’ve got a great setup there, quality refractor on a quality mount with slo mo’s that can be picked up with one hand. I ended up with a very similar setup, a 72mm apo on a Mini-Giro head (no slo mos) on a Horizon tripod. It was a fantastic g&g setup, really solid and good all rounder. The only downside (which I think you allude to) was using it without a seat - it had to be “wound up” to almost its highest setting and I also ended up with a neck ache (not so young now!). I now use a Heritage 130P on the same mount/tripod which is easier on my neck. Not such clean views as the apo, but a bit more aperture, pros and cons. 

[kirkster501]

Excellent.  It is not all about aperture, that's for sure.  Bigger is not better if you can only use it with a marathon effort.  I often use my FSQ85 as a visual telescope and it is absolutely superb. 

I am taking a small setup like this to Cornwall next week.

[Paz]

On 14/06/2024 at 23:12, Ags said:

It is very similar to my visual setup. I'm using and AZT6 on a carbon fibre tripod. The scope is a Zenithstar 66, and the one-and-only eyepeice is a Svbony 3-8. This gives a one-degree field of view and a max magnification of 130x, so it covers most requirements. 

I am actually toying with changing scopes to a Skymax 127 - that would still give a one-degree FOV with a wide 1.25” eyepiece, but I would need to do eyepiece changing for higher magnifications. I would also need to get a sturdier mount and tripod, so maybe I will just stick with what I have!

That Zenithstar set up sounds very good I think you are already winning with that.

A 127 Maksutov is tempting but as you say it would pull you back to a more complex (and expensive) set up.

[Paz]

2 hours ago, RobertI said:

Nice read! I can really relate to what you are trying to achieve. You’ve got a great setup there, quality refractor on a quality mount with slo mo’s that can be picked up with one hand. I ended up with a very similar setup, a 72mm apo on a Mini-Giro head (no slo mos) on a Horizon tripod. It was a fantastic g&g setup, really solid and good all rounder. The only downside (which I think you allude to) was using it without a seat - it had to be “wound up” to almost its highest setting and I also ended up with a neck ache (not so young now!). I now use a Heritage 130P on the same mount/tripod which is easier on my neck. Not such clean views as the apo, but a bit more aperture, pros and cons. 

Pros and cons sums it up, my attempt at this set up is making me weigh up what things I value the most and what to trade off for what and when it comes down to it my preferences are not necessarily what I would have said at they were at the start. For example I am actually fine being limited to lower magnifications than I normally observe at, and I don't mind being limited to one eyepiece for a whole session with no option to change eyepieces, but I have found I really can't compromise on having a physically comfortable observing position / posture.

[Paz]

Here's an update on the tripod set up and finders.

...but first I should mention that there was a small scope contender that I forgot to mention... a 102mm f7 refractor. This wasn't chosen as it is more weight and length so more work to carry out, more vibes, and a lower eyepiece height at high altitudes.

Tripod

i have made up out of zip ties a little rail around the tripod head to hang some small bags from to hold things. This was driven by noticing the hassle of having to go back inside and get bits and pieces, and the hassle of putting things in pockets and forgetting where I put them. The bags are high so they are easy to get to and they are small so that it's easy to compartmentalise things. These are proving ato be really good in the field, everything is easily to hand and it is easy to put things down in them and so not run out of hands to do things.

So far one bag holds observing hoods, gloves and glasses, and the other holds end caps, a blower, and things like filter boxes. I need one more for my beanie hat and gloves, and one more for a power brick for my Quark.

I've tried vibration suppression pads on the tripod and they do make a significant difference. However I need to find a way to attach them permanently so that I don't have to put them down and pick them up every session.

 

Finders

The solar finder can just stay on so that it's there when I need it. It didn't have good resolution so I put some tin foil over it and put a pin prick in that for a much smaller hole. It's now a lot more accurate.

The rdf is nice and high  so it's easy to get under to look through. Originally I had a Rigel on the tube ring sticking out sideways but it was blocking the raci finder and was a bit too low for getting under easily.

The right angled finder is RACI so that orientation is easier. I've got it as low as I can get it to minimise balance issues and make it easier to keep it upright at all times whilst still being able to get above it and look , but I would have it a bit lower if I could .

The idea is I can leave all 3 finders on if I want so I don't have to spend time finding, fitting, and aligning them and this is working well.

 

The tin foil on the ota cap is so I can leave the scope out in the sun, pointing it at the sun to minimise how much heat the scope collects from the sun.

I have had 17 sessions since late May with this scope,  the vast majority being between 5 to 20 minutes in observing time which illustrates how easy to use it is.

[Emperor!Takahashi!]

Very cool. I, too, enjoy the process of perfecting my setups, so I appreciate the satisfaction that comes with a setup that's a pleasure to use 🙂

[Paz]

I've been doing more observing with this and continue to refine it. It's been out for 27 observing sessions in June (!) with targets including including solar white light, solar Ha, lunar, double stars, asteroids, and DSOs. Sessions are generally short as I'm fitting them in around the weather, daylight/darkness, and life in general. Half an hour or so is a typical observing session, they are rarely longer, and are sometimes only a few minutes. The thing I have found is I that I'm not bothered if I go out and only observe for a few minutes because its easy. Here's a few decisions that I have made after quite a bit of testing out different options.

Binoviewers 

I really like binoviewing but after giving them a go I have dropped binoviewers from use in this set up. The issues are more weight, more vibes, more variation in balance point between light and heavy set ups, and its harder to track as I can't observe so far off axis compared to cyclops. This is not to criticise binoviewing, it is just that when testing options I have found I go around in circles being tempted to go for a better and better arrangement but then it gets complicated/heavier/more stressful and less enjoyable so I've let myself be guided by the principle of erring on the side of going for what is easier to use. This got me back on track to a set up that is working.

Tripod

I've ditched vibration supression pads - as the vibes are no problem if I am only using cyclops set ups and so this keeps things more simple. I am not using a spreader tray, I don't need it for stability, or for holding bits of kit, and I can close the tripod legs together quite a bit to get more eyepiece height when I need it. I've got a number of small bags hanging on the tripod that I use as pockets and this has been a great discovery. Anything/everything I need is in these and stays in these so if I want to go out I don't have to go and look for anything, it's all right there and nothing needs to go in my pockets. There are some open top pockets and some zip pockets (specifically zips... not noisy velcro or poppers that often need 2 hands). The bags are used as follows:

1. Observing hoods (x 2) and observing glasses.

2. Beanie had, cap, light black gloves, power brick and leads for a Quark.

3. Spare male and female caps for 1.25", 2", and T2 so I don't get caught out with something I can't cap, air blower, 1.25" filters - UHC and polarising, and an empty filter box again just in case I end up with a filter I want to take off and can't without somewhere to put it, and a card with notes about focuser settings and dovetail balance point settings so I can go straight to them and don't have to faff or remember.

4. Empty bag - so I have some spare capacity to carry other things if I really want to e.g. a changes of eyepiece. This is like having a spare pair of hands to hold things.

Diagonal/Eyepiece Set Ups

I've settled on three back ends that are all set up and ready to just swap straight in / out. The idea is to have a simple set up and that I don't take out changes of eyepiece as it adds weight and complications and choices. I'd rather pick one eyepiece and make the best of that. The notes below are where I have got to with what I have found to be the best compromise and I'm not really changing from these now.

White light solar - Baader wedge and 6mm SLV (0.63 degrees FOV, 72x magnification, 1mm exit pupil). I think about 75x magnification is right for this set up, it doesn't push the limits of the scope, doesn't push ability of the mount to manage vibes, doesn't test the seeing, and the exit pupil is small enough that I can observe with or without glasses as I wish. I can go out and know I'm on to a winner pretty much no matter what. More aperture and more magnification and guaranteed great conditions etc would be better but this is about nice and easy observing in most conditions one might encounter. I tested out Delos vs SLV and SLV prevailed partly as it presents slightly more contrast/clarity on solar, partly it's lighter, partly I can use SLVs with or without glasses, and I don't like using Delos without glasses as that means dropping eyelashes on my lovely Delos's whereas I  am happy to treat my SLVs with less respect (sorry). The Baade wedge beat the Lacerta wedge as it allows better viewing angles at the eyepiece when the sun is higher. I really like the Lacerta wedge but historically I have mostly used an observing chair when using it, but in this case I've got this set up to a point where I can go without a chair completely so the Lacerta is not so practical here.

Ha Solar - Baader BBHS prism, Quark, 25mm SLV. (0.67 degrees FOV (possibly slightly clipped), 74x magnification, 1m exit pupil). I tested from a 55mm plossl down to a 20mm SLV, and I think again about 75x is a good compromise for the same reasons as white light solar, and an SLV rather than Delos (edit - I meant to say 22mm Nagler not Delos) in this case is more for weight reasons (I didn't even test for an optical winner). The Quark causes you to have a huge light sabre handle sized stick hanging out miles off the optical axis and a heavy eyepiece on the end of that would mean too many vibes for me.

Everything else (lunar, DSOs, doubles, planets, etc) - BBHS mirror diagonal, 3.5mm Delos. (0.58 degrees FOV, 123x magnification, 0.6mm exit pupil). I tested SLVs and Delos and a Mk4 zoom. The Delos wins out for the combination of FOV (for easier finding, easier tracking, and being able to frame more targets at a given magnification) and quality of view. I also tried 8mm, 6mm, 4.5mm but found that 123x and 0.58 degrees is fine for the vast majority of targets including DSOs as it dims the background light pollution more. It does not push the scope to its limits, or the seeing as seeing limits are generally better than they are for solar observing. I can split Epsilon Lyra very well, its small to the eye but it is clear cut and if it can do that it can do plenty to keep me entertained. If I know I am focusing more on DSOs in a session I would possibly drop to a lower magnification to get a better frame for larger objects and to concentrate faint extended objects but I can test that more as the nights get darker.

Ergonomics

I've been playing around with the dovetail bar and have it back just enough to be able to balance any set up at any altitude but not so far back that the dovetail stops me being able to swing an eyepiece down to either side if I want to, and the RACI finder is just far enough away from the eyepiece that I can swing the eyepiece down to any position and observe with either eye. The bags/pockets are high so they are easily to hand and so they are close to the centre of the tripod but they do make the whole thing more top heavy. Overall I can pick the whole thing up and carry it easily quite a distance.

Edited July 2 by Paz

[PeterStudz]

Thanks for sharing this and with so much detail. The bags are a great and simple solution. I well remember when I was at a dark remote site with a small grab-and-do that eyepieces and accessories were a pain. I had a small box for eyepieces which I had to put on the ground (at home I have a handy garden table) and it was too warm for more than a t-shirt and shorts, so I didn’t have great pockets storage. Going up and down to grab eyepieces, caps, filters etc was far from convenient. Plus it was so dark that it was difficult to see/find where I’d put stuff. 

[josefk]

Excellent thought process/tuning process/rationalising process and subsequent write up @Paz in all the different sections of this thread.

Low friction, low effort GnG that is still rewarding and satisfying to use is vital to sustain interest in the UK i think. Especially at this time of year when the decision point to get out or not is so late in the evening...

My observing is always away from the house (GnG on foot a few 100 meters away, full sessions with the car a few km away) so one idea of yours i already do is leave bags and cases pre-packed for different use cases; core bag (always used), core bag plus GnG "minimum kit" for short sessions, core bag plus "full" EP case, + dew control kit, + BV kit, + 2nd scope kit, etc. etc. All "+kit" "options" discretely packed. Even when going out for longer sessions this modularity means everything is where it's expected to be and not forgotten (either going out or coming back!).

 

[Paz]

On 03/07/2024 at 09:15, PeterStudz said:

Thanks for sharing this and with so much detail. The bags are a great and simple solution. I well remember when I was at a dark remote site with a small grab-and-do that eyepieces and accessories were a pain. I had a small box for eyepieces which I had to put on the ground (at home I have a handy garden table) and it was too warm for more than a t-shirt and shorts, so I didn’t have great pockets storage. Going up and down to grab eyepieces, caps, filters etc was far from convenient. Plus it was so dark that it was difficult to see/find where I’d put stuff. 

Boxes or cases on a table at home or on the floor away from home are my usual approach also.

Your comment about being difficult to find things in the dark has me realise that I didn't even think about having a torch, but it is because where I observe there's always enough light pollution to help me see what I'm doing!

[Paz]

On 03/07/2024 at 09:59, josefk said:

Excellent thought process/tuning process/rationalising process and subsequent write up @Paz in all the different sections of this thread.

Low friction, low effort GnG that is still rewarding and satisfying to use is vital to sustain interest in the UK i think. Especially at this time of year when the decision point to get out or not is so late in the evening...

My observing is always away from the house (GnG on foot a few 100 meters away, full sessions with the car a few km away) so one idea of yours i already do is leave bags and cases pre-packed for different use cases; core bag (always used), core bag plus GnG "minimum kit" for short sessions, core bag plus "full" EP case, + dew control kit, + BV kit, + 2nd scope kit, etc. etc. All "+kit" "options" discretely packed. Even when going out for longer sessions this modularity means everything is where it's expected to be and not forgotten (either going out or coming back!).

 

I like the idea of kit packed in modules, I am going to have a look at my stuff more generally and see if I can do this. I sometimes spend a lot of time rummaging around looking for a  eyepiece or an adapter or whatever as I don't have a very disciplined system, or if I'm going away from home I grab various bits from various places and put them in one box hoping I have not forgotten a critical item.