NGC 1365, Alas it's purchased data

[tomato]

There is a bit of a story behind this one:

When I first started AP back in the 1980's the Holy Grail was to capture an image of the Horsehead Nebula after seeing a photo taken with the with the 48" Schimdt telescope at Siding Springs. I did eventually succeed but it was truly awful. Nowadays, it makes me smile that a Seestar will give you a vastly superior image with the absolute minimum of effort. Fast forward to 2016 and my return to the hobby focused on galaxy imaging and I was again blown away when I came across an image of NGC 1365, surely the most photogenic barred spiral galaxy in the entire sky.

Capturing my own version would, however, be significantly more challenging. For a start, it is so southerly it is impossible to image from the UK and even from southern Spain it is a bit of a challenge.  With little opportunity to image in the UK due to the permacloud, my thoughts have returned to this target. The only option for now was to process an existing third party dataset, so after looking around I took a punt and purchased a 8.67 hr RGB dataset from Starbase for $20.

It was captured with a 12.5" RC and SBIG ST1100 CCD from Chile. TBH, the data was a little disappointing, quite a colour gradient across the combined image and several hot columns in the individual 10 minute subs. Still I took it through my usual workflow. Although I have an image of it now in my collection, the process has been oddly unsatisfying. It does make me wonder if I would feel the same sense of dissatisfaction if I was to get data directly from a remote site, but unless I put my dual rig over my shoulder and get on a plane, I don't have much of an option.

There is a 27 hr dataset available for £50 through the Society for Popular Astronomy,  I'm not sure...

[Tomatobro]

I have looked at the data sets available since joining PA but this is the first write up I have seen on what you get for the money. Nice image.

[WolfieGlos]

I agree, that's a very photogenic barred spiral and nicely processed.

12 hours ago, tomato said:

TBH, the data was a little disappointing, quite a colour gradient across the combined image and several hot columns in the individual 10 minute subs. Still I took it through my usual workflow. Although I have an image of it now in my collection, the process has been oddly unsatisfying.

I'm disappointed to read that for something you've paid for, that you get sub-par data in return. I always think of these remote sites as being able to provide the best kinds of data due to the dark skies. Saying that, you'd never know from that final image 🙂

I get what you mean about unsatisfying. In the recent IKI competition for the Crescent, I really didn't feel the same satisfaction and didn't have the same "will" as if it was my own data. I had the intention of trying more of their past collections (for free!) because I have been thinking of going to Mono, and trying my hand at free data would be a good learning experience before deciding to take the plunge. With all of the cloud we've had it would have been ideal, but in truth, I've only tried one other set (M81/M82) and I have to say, I didn't find myself enthralled by it. Perhaps the chase and collecting our own data has more worth to it, psychologically, to some of us than we realise.

[ollypenrice]

First off, it is indeed a beautiful galaxy and you've done it proud. And, secondly, it isn't available to your own observatory and that's a pretty good excuse. (When you say you'd have to get on a plane with your dual rig, I'm sure you're right. They wouldn't let you inside it with that lot! )

Unsatisfying? Hmmm...  These days my 'observing,' which is to say my interaction with the night sky, comes largely through image processing. Paul Kummer looks after capture and pre-processing though, naturally, we discuss tactics ahead of that and the kit is partly mine and based at my home. Still, my situation is not entirely unlike yours with these data and yet I find it very satisfying. It's in processing its image that I feel I get to know an object. I try to tease out its secrets, persuade it to reveal things it doesn't usually reveal.

This is why I now so much like working with fast systems. We can never resolve at the professional level but we can go deeper. We can also mosaic so as to show the relationship between objects and, sometimes, the way in which they are interconnected. The fast systems give me the buzz of seeing something I haven't seen before. Sometimes it's said that you never really look at something until you try to draw it. Probably true, but I'd add that I never really look at an astrophoto till I try to process it.

Olly

[tomato]

Thanks for the feedback, the psychology towards just processing data is fascinating. On the IKI data I was more in a learning and I suppose a competition mindset, and I could compare my efforts to others, so I was OK with that.

I think the problem is I get fired up about galaxies and I once I have chosen a target I kind of form an attachment that starts with planning an imaging session and finishes when I post the ‘final’ processed image.

The problem with NGC 1365 is the frustration of not being able to personally fulfil the data capture part of the process, I suppose our friends in the Southern hemisphere could feel the same way about M31 and M81/82?

Anyway, I ought to get used to just processing data, as the day will come, if I’m still here, when I’m not able to lift the scopes on and off the mount so then it will have to be either a Seestar or third part data.

[ollypenrice]

1 hour ago, tomato said:

Thanks for the feedback, the psychology towards just processing data is fascinating. On the IKI data I was more in a learning and I suppose a competition mindset, and I could compare my efforts to others, so I was OK with that.

I think the problem is I get fired up about galaxies and I once I have chosen a target I kind of form an attachment that starts with planning an imaging session and finishes when I post the ‘final’ processed image.

The problem with NGC 1365 is the frustration of not being able to personally fulfil the data capture part of the process, I suppose our friends in the Southern hemisphere could feel the same way about M31 and M81/82?

Anyway, I ought to get used to just processing data, as the day will come, if I’m still here, when I’m not able to lift the scopes on and off the mount so then it will have to be either a Seestar or third part data.

Or your own remote setup?

Olly

[Giles_B]

I agree it is really interesting the connection I can form with "my" data. I'm just getting into imaging having come by way of a SeeStar, and ended up with a set up based around the ASiair. The fact that the ASiair will capture the data according to a programme means I don't have to sit at the telescope for long once everything is up and running, which really suits my family life and means the telescope is getting lots more notional time under the stars, despite the awful UK cloud. But I find the process of setting up and taking down the equipment  makes me feel really connected to the data I'm capturing (most of it not premium data at all thanks to me being such a novice!), and i get much more out of it than using the Seestar (which really felt much too easy with no real set up needed).

I have philosophical training and I've always though John Locke's theory of property rights - that things become "ours" because we "mix" our labour with them - was pretty silly, but now I am actually starting to wonder if this is what is happening with astronomy data! 

[tomato]

3 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Or your own remote setup?

Olly

Yes, that’s the other possibility, if I liquidate my Astro gear I could hire one of FLO’s set ups in Spain for a few years, then there is no problem disposing of any assets when I peg it.

I’ve heard that folks who set up their own rig in Chile find it is so expensive to bring it back home they finally end up selling it for a song in situ or  donating it to a school or University.

Edited April 12 by tomato

[ollypenrice]

2 hours ago, Giles_B said:

 

I have philosophical training and I've always though John Locke's theory of property rights - that things become "ours" because we "mix" our labour with them - was pretty silly, but now I am actually starting to wonder if this is what is happening with astronomy data! 

I think there are many levels of ownership. The simplest, and weakest, is created when you buy something and it's yours. So two people go out and buy the same expensive racing bicycle and sit with it outside a café at the bottom of Mont Ventoux. One of them went out in the morning, rode up the mountain and down it, then rode over it the other way. The other just rode it from his hotel to the café. I cannot possibly consider their levels of ownership to be equivalent., though a lawyer can.

Olly

[gorann]

I am so lucky being a Swede since some heroes at The Swedish Amateur Astronomical Society has managed to get donations and set up a 17" Planewave CDK in Oria, Spain (Ian King's hosting facility). As a member I can use it for about 40 Euro for a whole night. I had the whole night yesterday and will have it for two more nights. Now sitting here up clouded in in Sweden waiting for my time slot to begin i  9 minutes. Something for a UK club to think about. Here is my previous one from March with the Spanish scope:

 

Edited April 12 by gorann

[gorann]

[tomato]

40 euros for the whole night, on  a 17" CDK, that looks like a good rate!👍

[jjohnson3803]

4 hours ago, Giles_B said:

[...] I've always thought John Locke's theory of property rights - that things become "ours" because we "mix" our labour with them - was pretty silly, but now I am actually starting to wonder if this is what is happening with astronomy data! 

I sometimes ponder the visual vs EAA vs AP vs remote scope vs remote data vs surfing Astrobin "experience" and that makes the most sense to me of anything so far.

 

[gorann]

Yes, an old lady and astro-enthusiast named Margareta Westerlund donated a chunk of money and that started it. Then some students a Lund University volunteered to write software to make it easy for simple minded people like me to run it. Just getting my first subs for tonight in now!

[wimvb]

On 11/04/2024 at 21:56, tomato said:

That's a very nice image. The only problem I see with it, and that touches on the problem with bought data, is that it lacks Ha. I haven't seen any other image of this target, but the blue arms with all their knots just scream H-alpha. And since this is from a bought set, where others have decided what to capture, you'll probably never get it. When we capture our own data, we get to decide the what and how. 

[tomato]

Thanks Wim, I have seen images with the expected Ha regions in the spiral arms. The 27 hr dataset available through the Society for Popular Astronomy has some Ha data, I need to investigate this further.

[tomato]

So I succumbed to temptation and purchased the Martin Pugh 27 hr LHaRGB dataset from Chile taken with a Planewave CDK 17. I'm not sure whether I should have done this, but for added effect I added in the 8.5 hrs of Starbase RGB data to give 35 hrs total integration. I think I have sated my appetite for this galaxy, at least as far as using third party data goes.

[ollypenrice]

Let's not forget that RGB or OSC does have Ha signal but it only has it in a proportion which is about the same as seen by our eyes. For me, galaxy Ha is not compulsory.

Olly