AM5 Harmonic mount to concrete pier adapter question.

[ollypenrice]

Hi all, does anyone know what would be needed to fit the AM5 mount to the top of a generic concrete pier like a Todmorden? I can't see what's going on under the bottom of the mount or the standard pier adapters.

If I put a flat steel plate on top of the pier, can the ZWO AM5 attach to that? And, if so, would it need access from beneath?

Cheers,

Olly

Edited April 8 by ollypenrice

[Elp]

Haven't got one (yet) but the drawing is here and on their website. I believe it comes with a silver puck which fits into their TC40 CF tripod and is removable leaving the flat base you see in the mechanical drawing showing the PCD of the fixing holes. One of the appeals of it for me is the standard 3/8 female for tripod mounting but you're looking for a more secure fitting which you can see from the drawing:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth-astronomy-mounts/zwo-am5-harmonic-drive-equatorial-mount.html

Edited April 8 by Elp

[StevieDvd]

I have the AM5 and both of the extensions (PE160 & PE200). 

The AM5 on it' s own can use a 3/8" tripod/base but needs access from below.  The extenders  have the same top fitting as the tripod so you can 'drop' the AM5 into it and tighten the upper clamps.  You could bolt one of these onto the pier (permanently if needed).   I have one on my pier using the eq5 adapter (supplied) that can be bolted to the extension - but that needs access from below as well.

[Elp]

19 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

have the AM5 and both of the extensions (PE160 & PE200). 

Didn't think of it at the time but now see the issue.

Is the puck removable from these piers and the holes threaded through so you can access from the "inside"?

I guess if you have a good pillar mounted centering drill at hand you can make your own adaptor plates out of aluminium.

Edited April 8 by Elp

[ollypenrice]

2 hours ago, Elp said:

Haven't got one (yet) but the drawing is here and on their website. I believe it comes with a silver puck which fits into their TC40 CF tripod and is removable leaving the flat base you see in the mechanical drawing showing the PCD of the fixing holes. One of the appeals of it for me is the standard 3/8 female for tripod mounting but you're looking for a more secure fitting which you can see from the drawing:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth-astronomy-mounts/zwo-am5-harmonic-drive-equatorial-mount.html

 

1 hour ago, StevieDvd said:

I have the AM5 and both of the extensions (PE160 & PE200). 

The AM5 on it' s own can use a 3/8" tripod/base but needs access from below.  The extenders  have the same top fitting as the tripod so you can 'drop' the AM5 into it and tighten the upper clamps.  You could bolt one of these onto the pier (permanently if needed).   I have one on my pier using the eq5 adapter (supplied) that can be bolted to the extension - but that needs access from below as well.

Thanks.  Sorry, but what I still can't work out is how to attach this mount to a home made pier. If my pier top consisted of a flat steel plate with access from beneath, could the mount be placed securely on that and bolted down onto it by bolts from beneath? Is the bottom of the mount drilled and threaded to receive bolts from below? Drilling the mount top plate is no problem since I do have a large pillar drill.

Olly

[StevieDvd]

39 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

 

Thanks.  Sorry, but what I still can't work out is how to attach this mount to a home made pier. If my pier top consisted of a flat steel plate with access from beneath, could the mount be placed securely on that and bolted down onto it by bolts from beneath? Is the bottom of the mount drilled and threaded to receive bolts from below? Drilling the mount top plate is no problem since I do have a large pillar drill.

Olly

The mount on its own has a flat base with many pre-drilled/tapped holes. The central being a 3/8" standard, but several others for the accessory plates (4 x M6 and 4 x M8).   Using the 3/8" alone would not stop  the possibility of the mount turning on the base, but would be simpler to make the steel plate. Dimensions are on the FLO page linked to earlier be @Elp

[Elp]

The turning of the mount will be part determined by the imaging train weight and moment force it generates. My Hem15 I only attach to tripods via the centre 3/8 thread, I don't even lock off the azimuth axis (just keep the left and right knobs flush against the centre pin once PAd), and I've used it on tripods which have an aluminium base so no added friction from a rubber pad like I have on my Berlebach. I've found it's never caused an issue even when using the C6 or Starfield 102.

On a more permanent setup however I'd look to have minimum 2 or 3 fixing holes, the puck attaches to the am5 via 3 off M6 holes so you can drill a plate with larger diameter clearance holes along the 60mm PCD at the same positions and fix from underneath with the puck removed.

What I'm confused about is what the view centre left is of:

Edited April 8 by Elp

[ollypenrice]

6 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

The mount on its own has a flat base with many pre-drilled/tapped holes. The central being a 3/8" standard, but several others for the accessory plates (4 x M6 and 4 x M8).   Using the 3/8" alone would not stop  the possibility of the mount turning on the base, but would be simpler to make the steel plate. Dimensions are on the FLO page linked to earlier be @Elp

Thanks, I think that answers my question. The payload will be very small - a Samyang 135/cooled CMOS camera - so it looks like bolting the AM5 down onto a flat plate should be easy.

Olly

[Celerondon]

The AM5 is a deceptively compact mount.  If attaching the base of the mount directly to your pier isn’t practical or if the arrangement leaves things too cramped, you could always use a pier extension as a pier adapter and retain the convenience that the PE200 provides.  Because the PE200 is a three part assembly with a standard ZWO adapter puck on its base, you could use the top of the pier extension or a combination of the three main components to create a custom pier adapter that fits your AM5 like a glove.   Here is a diagram that shows the dimensions of the PE200.  

It is difficult (impossible?) to secure an AM5 directly to a platform without access from below.  But one of the features of the PE200 is a lever actuated quick release system that is simple and secure.   Here is a diagram that shows the dimensions of the PE200.   If you compare these measurements with your pier platform you may see a way to simplify the process of securing the mount to the pier without needing access from below.  

Don

 

Edited April 10 by Celerondon

[Celerondon]

On 08/04/2024 at 04:40, Elp said:

…

What I'm confused about is what the view centre left is of:

It took me a moment but I think that that the center left view is the mounting flange for the dual (Type V & D) dovetail.  I have not pulled my mount out to confirm this theory but it seems to make sense.  Counting clockwise from the top left diagram they appear to show an AM5 that is in AltAz mode and aimed at the zenith from the:

1. south
2. west
3. below
4. east
5. above
6. dovetail flange

The north view which would have shown the back side of the wedge and the counterweight plug/toe saver is not shown. 

Don

 

I think that ZWO provides the flange diagram to show that it is easily possible to rotate the dovetail mount 90°. (This rotation enables side by side telescope mounting)  Compare the 38mm bolt spacings in position 1 and position 6 to see how this works. 

Edited April 11 by Celerondon

[ollypenrice]

8 hours ago, Celerondon said:

It took me a moment but I think that that the center left view is the mounting flange for the dual (Type V & D) dovetail.  I have not pulled my mount out to confirm this theory but it seems to make sense.  Counting clockwise from the top left diagram they appear to show an AM5 that is in AltAz mode and aimed at the zenith from the:

1. south
2. west
3. below
4. east
5. above
6. dovetail flange

The north view which would have shown the back side of the wedge and the counterweight plug/toe saver is not shown. 

Don

 

I think that ZWO provides the flange diagram to show that it is easily possible to rotate the dovetail mount 90°. (This rotation enables side by side telescope mounting)  Compare the 38mm bolt spacings in position 1 and position 6 to see how this works. 

Many thanks, Don.

Olly

[Peter Drew]

I fitted an AM5 to the top of a "Todmorden" pier by spacing with a ring cut from a 5" diameter 1/4" wall thickness tube between the bottom of the mount and a plate on top of the pier.  The 3/8 screwed rod pulling it all together would take some shifting to accidentally rotate the 5" ring.     😀 

[ollypenrice]

8 hours ago, Peter Drew said:

I fitted an AM5 to the top of a "Todmorden" pier by spacing with a ring cut from a 5" diameter 1/4" wall thickness tube between the bottom of the mount and a plate on top of the pier.  The 3/8 screwed rod pulling it all together would take some shifting to accidentally rotate the 5" ring.     😀 

Perfect. Thanks, Peter.

Olly

[Oortraged]

Olly, a question - I thought the big selling point of these harmonic drive mounts were their portability? Seems countinetuitive to mount one permanently in terms of cost/ performance? Or are they really that accurate?

[ollypenrice]

2 hours ago, Oortraged said:

Olly, a question - I thought the big selling point of these harmonic drive mounts were their portability? Seems countinetuitive to mount one permanently in terms of cost/ performance? Or are they really that accurate?

Valid question. Our situation is that we want to squeeze a fifth robotic instrument into a roll-off roof shed designed for four piers. The instrument is just a Samyang 135 lens, so very small, and we can get away with squeezing this setup in if it is free of counterweight arms, etc. The AM5 mount and camera are perfect for the limited space available. At present the Samyang is occupying a main pier and this isn't necessary, it's overkill.

Olly

[AstroGS]

@ollypenrice i have sent my AM5 + P200 to David in Spain and he set it up on a pier. I will be sharing some pictures shortly but, you will need i think:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-mounts/zwo-additional-silver-top-plate-for-tc40-tripod.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/harmonic-drive-mounts/zwo-pe200-pier-extension-for-am3-am5-mount.html

 

 

[AstroGS]

[Oortraged]

1 hour ago, ollypenrice said:

Valid question. Our situation is that we want to squeeze a fifth robotic instrument into a roll-off roof shed designed for four piers. The instrument is just a Samyang 135 lens, so very small, and we can get away with squeezing this setup in if it is free of counterweight arms, etc. The AM5 mount and camera are perfect for the limited space available. At present the Samyang is occupying a main pier and this isn't necessary, it's overkill.

Olly

Yep, makes perfect sense! I think they're just wonderful bits of engineering - that would be a good enough excuse for me!

35 minutes ago, AstroGS said:

Wow Astro, now there's a set up that's as nice to look at as look through! Really stunning.

Edited April 15 by Oortraged
Typo

[ollypenrice]

1 hour ago, AstroGS said:

Very helpful, George. Thanks. You're in safe hands with Dave Wills, he's a good guy.

Olly