Suggest three targets for a newbie tonight

[LondonNeil]

Hi all,

I've just got started having bought a used skywatcher st120 last week,  and some good used eyepieces in preparation.  I've had 3 short short sessions this week,  beginning to find my way around the scope at least, such that last night I set up,  was straight on Saturn, got it centred and worked my way up to good view of it at x92, added the Barlow and worked my way up to a fleeting good view at x185 .  ... fleeting as I was observing from my drive as its not worth trekking anywhere until I can point it straight.... and that means street lights and the houses across the road plus the killer of occasional cars.   I just got Saturn in focus in view at x185 for 2 seconds before being dazzled by a car.  #£%@!   Still I was happy,  I feel after less then 2 hours practice I'm beginning to be able to work the scope. And had managed all that including setting up in 20 mins,  5 mins later I was packed away again and dashed off to collect my 6yo from Beavers with a happy grin. 

Now my question,  forecast is clear skies tonight and I've promised my kids to camp in the garden (they are a tough pair!) So I'll be out back with restricted views due to surrounding houses and trees but a little darker at least, and hoping for another 30 -45 mins practice along with showing the kids something.   But what to try?

Needs to be something easy to find,  bright as I'm south London.   Not too the North as the glow of the city obscures everything.   Not low to the south as it'll be hidden behind the house (so Saturn is out,  Jupiter and the moon I might get if early enough but suspect I won't be out until 9 ish so probably not).   I've better views East and west.  Oh and the other limitation....an az3 mount.   I'll probably upgrade and am already considering a used eq5 I've found but for tonight let's just say I'll try,  but high inclination targets will probably lead to frustration as the mount drops.  

Eps, I've a range from 25mm to 6.5mm plus a Barlow.

Any suggestions for a target or three?  An easy star cluster?  It'll help me practice and might enthrall my 3 kids briefly!   Many thanks. 

Neil

[Cjg]

Depends upon the light pollution and whether your view to the South West is clear or not, but now, possibly the easiest is the Orion Nebulae, M42, the fuzzy patch underneath the three belt stars is naked eye visible and you'll see nebulosity..

Freetstarcharts is your friend to print out so as not to sacrificde any books https://freestarcharts.com/messier-42

You do not mention how old your children are, but NGC 457 the Owl Cluster usually a 'winner' https://freestarcharts.com/ngc-457 Just underneath Cassiopeia 

The Andromeda Galaxy is another easy, naked eye from dark skies, but will be possibly straight up, so for a refractor, stiff neck time? https://freestarcharts.com/messier-31

If you can borrow a copy of Turn Left at Orion, it will give you an idea of what to look for, month by month, especially helpful, if in the early days, you do not know what to look for and where.

Good luck,

Chris

 

 

Edited January 19 by Cjg
Typo

[wesdon1]

@LondonNeil Hi Neil, and welcome to SGL! The above advice is great, so I can't improve upon that. What I would suggest you also try Neil, is something I call "blind searching" ( only myself, I've never heard anyone else call it that!? LOL ) So basically what I sometimes do is simply point telescope up and start searching blind with a low power EP, like a 25mm, or better a 30-40mm wide field EP. As I'm looking through EP and slowly scanning randomly across the sky, I often find beautiful open clusters, sometimes globular clusters, and also brighter nebulae etc. It's incredible when you come across said objects and the sky is awash with stars!

Also, another technique people use is "splitting" double/triple even quadruple stars. It requires higher power EPs so you'd be best trying to use a free star map application on your smart phone to find a "star" that is actually oftentimes a double star system, or even treble and more, and with high power EP, you "split" the stars so they're each individually visible. If you get a good "one" you can see gorgeous star systems with Blue, Orange/red, yellow individual stars, its really pretty and pleasing to see! 

Best of luck Neil and kids! 

Clear Skies from Liverpool!

Wes.

[Naughty Neal]

The obvious target is the moon at high power with it's features .

From my Bortle 6 /7 skys (direction dependent) near LGW , I can really only view targets as they pass from a south to a NNW aspect , other directions are affected by lights and the airport night sky to the north. 

Easy targets after 21.00   and nicely placed  in the night sky are Orion slighty to the South /S.W as the night goes by  , it's  belt and the satellite  bright stars.  Looking south of the belt m42   is visible to tne naked eye as said as a fuzzy blurred speck , a UHC filter may draw out more of the nebulae or a oiii filter.

Not far from Orion is Taurus and one can faintly make out the pleidaes m45 cluster by the naked eye, Taurus is a little more West of Orion and seeing may be affected more by the moons brightness.

Capella in Auriga is another bright star that should be easy to find but will be fairly high nearly overhead from 9pm in a  southerly aspect.

To the S/E  Gemini is nicely placed as is Ursa major and the plough to the East,  both by midnight appearing in the Southern part of the sky  as the Earth rotates.

Edited January 19 by Naughty Neal

[Bugdozer]

The sky is going to be dominated by the moon at that time, so I would say that will make an excellent target with some interesting features across the terminator at high power. Familiarise yourself with a moon map beforehand and you can point out things to the kids (that's what I do with my daughter). 

At low power, I would recommend the Pleiades as a bright, pretty cluster they will be able to see well. 

And my third nomination, a bit left field maybe, but a good bright multiple star is Castor, which you should be able to split into three components. 

[LondonNeil]

Cheers,  good ideas too try. 

Ep wise my lowest is 25mm (tube is f5, 600mm focal length, so x24).  That's a cheap skywatcher but a small step up from the 'supplied with' one.  Postie has just delivered a much better 2" 30mm stellalyra..... but hasn't yet delivered the 2" diagonal so..... £%@&!

I can try a bit of sky sweeping with that though.  Or I've a much better 17mm baader.

So to 'Blind scan' what do you do?  Get it focused using any star and then just slowly sweep across the sky?  Thatc sounds doable.    Fingers crossed I hit something!

Highest mag ep is an excellent 6.5mm (baader Morpheus) so that should give some real detail on targets like the moon IF I can manage it! 

Kids are 8.5, 6.5 and the space obsessed youngest is just 3.5.  So none have a lot of patience.  Definitely I need to keep sessions short,  give them a quick look and a couple of things and then pack away.   That said my 6.5yo was kept interested in Jupiter for 30+ minutes the other day.   Given that was only my second go and I'm still learning the scope she kept interested longer than I expected. 

 

 

[wesdon1]

25 minutes ago, Bugdozer said:

The sky is going to be dominated by the moon at that time, so I would say that will make an excellent target with some interesting features across the terminator at high power. Familiarise yourself with a moon map beforehand and you can point out things to the kids (that's what I do with my daughter). 

At low power, I would recommend the Pleiades as a bright, pretty cluster they will be able to see well. 

And my third nomination, a bit left field maybe, but a good bright multiple star is Castor, which you should be able to split into three components. 

@Bugdozer Yes castor is a lovely system, I've seen it a few times, really pleasing to view!

[LondonNeil]

I could see castor by eye yesterday and looked it up on Stellaryium,  definitely seems a good fit for what I need 👍

[wesdon1]

1 minute ago, LondonNeil said:

Cheers,  good ideas too try. 

Ep wise my lowest is 25mm (tube is f5, 600mm focal length, so x24).  That's a cheap skywatcher but a small step up from the 'supplied with' one.  Postie has just delivered a much better 2" 30mm stellalyra..... but hasn't yet delivered the 2" diagonal so..... £%@&!

I can try a bit of sky sweeping with that though.  Or I've a much better 17mm baader.

So to 'Blind scan' what do you do?  Get it focused using any star and then just slowly sweep across the sky?  Thatc sounds doable.    Fingers crossed I hit something!

Highest mag ep is an excellent 6.5mm (baader Morpheus) so that should give some real detail on targets like the moon IF I can manage it! 

Kids are 8.5, 6.5 and the space obsessed youngest is just 3.5.  So none have a lot of patience.  Definitely I need to keep sessions short,  give them a quick look and a couple of things and then pack away.   That said my 6.5yo was kept interested in Jupiter for 30+ minutes the other day.   Given that was only my second go and I'm still learning the scope she kept interested longer than I expected. 

 

 

Yes Neil, exactly that, just use your lowest power EP you have, find focus on any star, then slowly sweep around the sky and see what you find. I love doing it, especially when I find something really pretty like the open and globular clusters! You will also notice a LOT of satellites whizzing through your view as you go! When I first started out, I was convinced I had seen a UFO whizzing by! LOL. Then I obviously learned of the many hundre4ds of satellites up there! I'd also suggest you experiment with different size EP's and just find what you like best. 

Regarding Jupiter, that's my fave planet Neil! I never tire of looking at it! So I'm not too surprised your 8.5 yr old was so happy viewing it! ( he/she has great taste impo! 😜😂 )

[Naughty Neal]

 In that case then as the ages are young and for  short sessions .

Betelgeuse the bright amber/red star in the E , N/E direction and of the orion constellation.

The Moon and the Messier 45 pleiades open star cluster  in Taurus.

The brightest night sky object is Sirius though it is lower in the Southern sky , if one can set up and have good views between 20.00 - 21.00 it is in the SE in Canis Major.

One can also try for Jupiter but likely the moons glare/brightness may be a factor.

 

Visually if time is at a premium one can easily find the three star belt of Orion and point that out an dthe fuzzy nebula may be discernable to all.

 

 

 

Edited January 19 by Naughty Neal

[LondonNeil]

Cheers!  Lots of ideas so if I can't see or find one I can ditch and try another,  thanks!  

Satellites, oh how cool,  right, one of those star apps on my phone has iss and Satellites i think.    Although o imagine I'd have to be much better to locate one intentionally!   It's easy enough to look up,  spot Saturn by eye ( just,  as itwas sinking toward the haze over Croydon) and stick the red dot on it.   Locating something I can't see by eye first will take much more practice I'm sure.   I like the idea of spotting the ISS though!

[wesdon1]

4 minutes ago, LondonNeil said:

Cheers!  Lots of ideas so if I can't see or find one I can ditch and try another,  thanks!  

Satellites, oh how cool,  right, one of those star apps on my phone has iss and Satellites i think.    Although o imagine I'd have to be much better to locate one intentionally!   It's easy enough to look up,  spot Saturn by eye ( just,  as itwas sinking toward the haze over Croydon) and stick the red dot on it.   Locating something I can't see by eye first will take much more practice I'm sure.   I like the idea of spotting the ISS though!

@LondonNeil yes the satellites are cool to see, but if you ever decided to start taking pictures of objects in space, you will quickly find the satellites annoying! LOL They cast long lines across your pics! 

Yes the astronomy apps are brilliant for atleast telling you the general area you're viewing in the sky and what objects to look out for. There are so many free ones! 

best of luck, hope you find the hobby as rewarding as I have my friend! 

[MikeAa]

Satellites are best viewed naked-eye. They move too fast to track!!

[LondonNeil]

Thanks all,  just to say the session was a bit unplanned in the end as by the time the eldest 2 were back from girls brigade and I'd got the tent up it was late. So we had a quick look at the moon which was impressive.  I then found Orion and had a look very quickly. Girls were underwhelmed,  I had aimed at the belt stars but tbh wasn't entirely sure I had them..... I could see a load of stars not visible by eye which was fabulous,  but didn't have the whole belt in view,  I could only see one brighter star .... I was expecting to see the 3 through the 25mm?  Think I may have been off but with a less than Stella reaction from the girls I moved on rather than try for too long.   Az3 was being a pain.... socket set was fetched and I tightened the nut on the alt pivot which seemed to fix it,  and the slo mo controls still seemed smooth .... I'm still undecided about the used eq5!  Anyway,  after the fettle we picked a couple of bright objects,  Stellaryium helped me I'd the dog star as one,  and confirmed castor and pollux as the other,  oh and bottle juice.   Beetlegeuse was good,  girls liked that, and dog star.  Then with Barlow in and trying to get closer on pollux the focuser was being a pain.  The scope has been fitted with an electrical/ remote on the fine focus which is nice but it seems to struggle when winding the focuser in and gets stuck just before focus.  I thought for a moment,  'wow, look at that! Pollux is actually 6 stars!.   Oh...no.... its just not focused '  🤣  At this point it was time to call it a day. 

With scope in the garage a quick look indicated the windy bit of the remote focuser turns but slips on the shaft .... looks like the whole thing could be better aligned (maybe I gave it a knock at some point) and then tighten the grub screw.  I might take it off and file a small flat on the shaft for the grub screw to lock on.

 

So a bit of frustration for me with the mount,  and the focuser,  a bit rushed,  but saw some stars I'd never seen before and that was ace. 

Question.  My impression was less stars visible than last night.  Slightly larger moon making the sky brighter? Or were other conditions at play?  Anyone in London/SE that can confirm... or tell me I'm wrong!

[LondonNeil]

Oh and the sooner my new diagonal arrives the better as the 45⁰ it currently has is a pain..... why do skywatcher sell it with that!  I also found it bl00dy awkward to get down on the floor and peer through the red dot finder for higher targets.   Any tips?  I'll buy a foam knee pad I think,  beyond that though.... get quicker at finding the target!

[LondonNeil]

Postie has arrived with the diagonal.  My my it's a solid bit of kit,  very heavy!  Looks like a week before I'll get to try it though. 

[Naughty Neal]

 Sounds like a good session and getting the kids involved a nice experience, it will be hard to get their attention as one expects they will  want to see greater views of objects. As we know as adults these objects are very far space objects and needs time and patience to get the best out of seeing them , something the time span that youngsters will not have so will be come to them as being very underwhelming.

Earlier on seeing was ok last night as I set  off to work but not  as good as it has been.   I noticed as I left  work for home at 4am the seeing was  very poor, very few stars and cloud obscuring the sky in places.

 

It is nice to learn and know the night sky but for time and  locating objects far easier then a future  purchase if one is going to stay addicted to the hobby , is a Starsense unit which are pretty amazing once linked to a compatible smartphone.  

A few SGLers on the forum inc me , have bought a new cheaper enabled telescope  or an even cheaper used one simply to have the Starsense unit and adapt it easily to fit our far better personal telescopes. For manual viewers and seeking out objects they are very useful.   

 

 

 

[bosun21]

5 hours ago, LondonNeil said:

Thanks all,  just to say the session was a bit unplanned in the end as by the time the eldest 2 were back from girls brigade and I'd got the tent up it was late. So we had a quick look at the moon which was impressive.  I then found Orion and had a look very quickly. Girls were underwhelmed,  I had aimed at the belt stars but tbh wasn't entirely sure I had them..... I could see a load of stars not visible by eye which was fabulous,  but didn't have the whole belt in view,  I could only see one brighter star .... I was expecting to see the 3 through the 25mm?  Think I may have been off but with a less than Stella reaction from the girls I moved on rather than try for too long.   Az3 was being a pain.... socket set was fetched and I tightened the nut on the alt pivot which seemed to fix it,  and the slo mo controls still seemed smooth .... I'm still undecided about the used eq5!  Anyway,  after the fettle we picked a couple of bright objects,  Stellaryium helped me I'd the dog star as one,  and confirmed castor and pollux as the other,  oh and bottle juice.   Beetlegeuse was good,  girls liked that, and dog star.  Then with Barlow in and trying to get closer on pollux the focuser was being a pain.  The scope has been fitted with an electrical/ remote on the fine focus which is nice but it seems to struggle when winding the focuser in and gets stuck just before focus.  I thought for a moment,  'wow, look at that! Pollux is actually 6 stars!.   Oh...no.... its just not focused '  🤣  At this point it was time to call it a day. 

With scope in the garage a quick look indicated the windy bit of the remote focuser turns but slips on the shaft .... looks like the whole thing could be better aligned (maybe I gave it a knock at some point) and then tighten the grub screw.  I might take it off and file a small flat on the shaft for the grub screw to lock on.

 

So a bit of frustration for me with the mount,  and the focuser,  a bit rushed,  but saw some stars I'd never seen before and that was ace. 

Question.  My impression was less stars visible than last night.  Slightly larger moon making the sky brighter? Or were other conditions at play?  Anyone in London/SE that can confirm... or tell me I'm wrong!

Jupiter should be a must on your list. It’s very easy to locate as well and an impressive sight for a beginner.

[Orange Smartie]

+1 for Jupiter. You should also be able to see four of its moons (and an app like Moons of Jupiter will let you know which is which at any given time).

[LondonNeil]

Agreed.   I'd done a 3 short sessions in the week and had concentrated on the moon,  Jupiter and Saturn, bright and easy to find,  easy to practice on.  While I want to spend much more time with them I wanted to try a few other things last night,  6 and 8 yos need variety or boredom strikes!  I asked this morning though and the moon and bettlegeuse were winners. 

Looks like I've fixed the remote focuser.   For some reason the previous owner had it attached to the very end if the shaft,  trying to clamp the screw threads where the knob/wheel would have been.   Lucky not to have mangled them really.   Didn't take long to adjust the mount and get it right down on the shaft,  and I tightened the clamps 2 grub screws firmly.   In doing this I found the 2 screws on the other side of the small plate between the fast and fine focuser wheels were quite loose so nipped them up too.  It all seems to work perfectly now and the tube will go right in and out smoothly on the remote. 

 

I've also ordered several kneeling pads so the next session should be a bit more comfy.... kneeling on lumpy frozen lawn to peer up the red dot was quite painful last night!.

As for starsense. Yeah I'm in 2 minds.  I don't want to go nuts on what I'm spending (already spent a whack!) But a goto mount has appeal.  I want to stay light with the rig though tbh.  My best viewing spot will be the bit of open space at the end of the street rather then the garden so I want light and also easy to set up.   Hence the alt az, although I knew the st120 was too much for it really and with a 2" diagonal,  a 2" barlow and a baader Morpheus its going to be back heavy so I'm looking for a beefier mount.   Considering an eq5 I've found via astrobuysell, it's in Fulham,  asking £175.... not perfect as only the alu tripod and somebody has cut the alignment post off (I could drill and tap for a bolt though).

The other option is look for a used goto...

I came across a scope,  a celestron I think,  which had a smart phone mount and an app that turned the phone into a guide, i understood it was using the camera,  through the eyepiece, locking in on the stars it could see, and then guided you to move the scope to your chosen target.   If that works well and were available as an apo to buy I'd be interested,  keep the weight down but get the targeting assistance!

 

[Beardy30]

Welcome Neil 👍🏼💫 great read and great to see kids getting involved, the ST 102 ( have one) is superb , Jupiter and the Moon make great views too f your skies allow - I’d also highly recommend the AZI GTI mount - nice to use and the easy features via the app. Good luck with it all 

Edited January 20 by Beardy30

[LondonNeil]

Ooo, the az gti is a worthy suggestion, thank you.   Its capacity is  11b so 5kg.  Hmm  st120 is 4.1kg iirc, upgraded 2" bresser diagonal feels a boat anchor,  2" stellalyra Barlow, a and let's say my baader  Hyperion or Morpheus.   I guess that must be no more than 5kg but very close.   

In terms of portability it's more then the az3 but still far far far less then sman eq5 with counter weights.

Used one on ebay for £240 isn't loads more then the eq5 I was considering or as you say,  buy new with a cheap scope too, swap the cheaper scope to the az3 and either sell on or use for.... not sure what but something....hmm.  very tempting!

[LondonNeil]

I just thought, the gti mount is controlled,  via WiFi, by a skywatcher/ synta smart phone app. Is anyone concerned about app support (lack of). Ie, SW don't update the app to work with newer phone OS and it stops working, leaving you with an expensive three legged paperweight?  We've all heard of,  or bought,  smart TVs where all the apps cease to work as they aren't updated. 

Is there a fallback if it were to happen? Is there a controllerto buy and plug in?  Or better I suppose,  an old phone could become a dedicated controller.

Is there any risk here really?

[RJC]

Thanks all for the great advice in this thread.

I’m also new and going to try for a few of these myself!

[Cjg]

Worth watching / subscribing to Alyn Wallace if you are interested in a month-to-month objects to observe / photograph.

Here's his overview for 2024