Buying the first telescope! I'm interested in deep space!

[Ithan]

Hello everyone! I live in Greece and I'm interested in buying my first telescope. What interests me is deep space. Since this is my first telescope, I wouldn't want to pay more than $500, but I would like to get something that will keep my interest. I understand that how far I will be able to observe depends a lot on the money, so I would like the money I have available to translate into the maximum distance observation (relative to the money). From what I understand it's better to look for a reflector / dobsonian telescope. With $500 can I observe deep space or will I have to go to more money? Also, what features should I focus on? I have been very excited about astronomy since I was a child and I am very much looking forward to my first telescope. Thank you very much in advance!!

[M40]

Hello Ithan and welcome to the site.

When you say you would like to observe deep space, do you mean take pictures or more visual? If you could give us a few more pointers as to what you would like to do, that would be great. It will be difficult to create a dso package with your budget but it can be achieved if you look at visual on planets and the moon, so is this of interest to you?

Also with your budget, have you looked at the seestars s50? This an amazing piece of kit for its budget, have a look on here and on YouTube to see if this is of interest.

All the best 

[Peter Drew]

It's difficult to equate budget with distance viewed, the Andromeda galaxy can easily be seen naked eye for free!  A more practical approach is to consider the brightness of deep sky objects as in general the further out in space they are, the fainter they become.  The larger the telescope, the more light it collects allowing you to see "further".  Your mention of a Dobsonian is likely to be the best value to do this visually.   🙂

[Cosmic Geoff]

If you are expecting to see galaxies and nebulae visually like in the photographs, you are in for a disappointment.  I think there is a thread some where in this forum on 'what can I expect to see'.   On the other hand, star clusters, globular clusters and double stars will show up well with a small telescope.

If galaxies and nebulae are what you want to see, then you should order a Seestar S50, which is a little over your budget.

[bosun21]

Another thumbs up for a 8” dobsonian. How dark are your skies?. Visually you will get the best bang for your buck. If you want to take photographs EAA is possible with the addition of an Equatorial platform down the road. I’m afraid a proper astrophotography set up is way beyond your budget at the moment. The Seestar S50 is a decent choice for an all in one package at a little over your budget. Search for Seestar S50 on the search bar and have a look at the results that are achievable.

[Elara]

57 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

If you are expecting to see galaxies and nebulae visually like in the photographs, you are in for a disappointment.  I think there is a thread some where in this forum on 'what can I expect to see'.   On the other hand, star clusters, globular clusters and double stars will show up well with a small telescope.

If galaxies and nebulae are what you want to see, then you should order a Seestar S50, which is a little over your budget.

Here is the topic ‘what can I expect to see’. I have found it invaluable , hopefully the OP will too. If I were to go back myself (and let’s imagine this is possible in Greece?) I’d join a local Astro society and go to a few star parties before spending anything!

[Elara]

This is the one I meant to link to, the first page in the thread - apologies! 

[Ithan]

Thank you all for your replies!
Yes, I would like to see something beyond the solar system, that's why I want to give as much money as it takes so that the nebulae and galaxies that are far away don't look like gray blurs. So as I understand it is better to exceed $500 so as not to be disappointed with what I will see.

I generally live in a city, but for more than 1 month a year I go to an island, so the telescope will be used there, and light pollution will not be a problem. Even in a dark sky, the DSOs looks like gray smudges? In fact, I am quite concerned about not being disappointed, the astronomy club in my city is not very active, I am waiting for a long time for them to answer me to go with them for some observation.

I also have a camera and I would like to use it, but I learned that the dobs aren't for deep sky astrophotography, is that true? And if so, what should my mount or the telescope have to take deep sky photos?

My main interest is observing the DSO through the telescope and not just taking pictures, but since I have a camera it will be very nice if I can use it.

[Elp]

You'll see very little colour visually because the light incoming is very faint and your eyes tend to convert to night vision in dim light, a lot of the time you can't even see the objects directly and need to use averted vision but this is dependent on what you're looking at and your bortle level.

You mention you want to use your camera. This will require an incredible amount of patience, and you'll need to massively up your budget if you expect to get a result like you see from APers, the Seestar or Dwarf2 are generally the lowest cost of entry for imaging and EAA DSO there is discounting a Google Pixel but that's widefield photography and a different class to DSO imaging. You can image through an eyepiece but I've never attempted it on a DSO as you usually need long exposure = a good tracking mount, for solar system objects it okay to do this though. Keep the desire to do visual and imaging separate, the latter typically requires a lot more budget.

You can use the camera as is if you have decent lenses, but the longer the focal length then you will need a tracking mount of some sort.

[bomberbaz]

2 hours ago, Ithan said:

 

My main interest is observing the DSO through the telescope and not just taking pictures, but since I have a camera it will be very nice if I can use it.

My honest reply is concentrate on visual until you gain experience, as @Elp says entry level gear to get you going in both visual and photography would mean you getting two lots of gear such as a seestars and a 200mm aperture dobsonian.

So you have observing options available, I do like this version from stellaLyra StellaLyra 8" f/6 Dobsonian | First Light Optics but there are at least 3 other 8" (200mm) dobsonian available with FLO. This one has very good mirrors, an half decent 30mm eyepiece along with a 9mm plossl, a mirror cooling fan and dual speed focuser. There is a lot to like.

A month on some dark island with this would be a fantastic way of getting the best out of this instrument. 

Oh and an FYI, I have seen confirmed colour in just three objects, the blue snowball nebula (NGC 7662), the orion nebula (M42) and the ring nebula (M57), all needed fairly high magnification and very, very dark skies.

Edited November 4, 2023 by bomberbaz

[Ithan]

Thank you all for your replies.

From what I understand, it's better not to spend a large amount on the first telescope and to get something that will make me learn the sky and learn what I want from a telescope, especially if I don't manage to be at some star-party or something similar to have an idea before I buy something.

[Carbon Brush]

If you tell us a little more about your situation for viewing, we can make more constructive suggestions.
For example in the city, can you get away from immediate lighting?
Do you have to go down flights of stairs from home to your (garden?) for viewing?

What time of year do you go to the dark island?
How do you travel? Your car on a ferry? Foot passenger?

If you have to go down 3 flights of stairs at home to set up a scope, then you travel as a foot passenger on a ferry, a large reflector scope is not a good choice.
Though you will hear (correctly) that a reflector on dobson mount will give you most scope for your money.
If your dark island visit is mid summer, you will not get that much dark time.

Tell us more and the advice will improve.

David.

 

[Ithan]

Hi David, I usually go to the island for a month in the summer, but also for about a week at Christmas and a week at Easter and there is no light at all to a lot places, so the only problem that will exist in the summer will be the atmosphere.

I have a car, so whenever I go on out with the telescope I will take it with the car.

In the city, I live in an apartment where there are stairs to get up to the roof (from there I will observe if I am not going anywhere) and to reach the car, but I usually have people help me with the transport if it is about heavy objects. In general, it is easy for me to move somewhere away from the lights when i am in the city.

[Elp]

You can dismantle dobs from their bases, but anything to do with stairs tells me you need a scope you can pack into a manageable bag (backpack) and tripod in hand. I setup and breakdown every time so have to carry everything down and out and back, I wouldn't do it so much if that equipment was a dobsonian (mine all fits inside a cupboard out of the way). I've got refractors and a C6, all fit in their own bags so usually if I'm only using the one, it's one backpack and tripod in hand and out (I do AP so there's a lot more to carry outside but it's all in the one bag). If buying separates you'll have to up your budget a little, that's why dobs come recommended as you don't really need anything else other than eyepieces to use them, and they provide good aperture at reasonable cost, but in my opinion at the cost of true easy portability (a 6 inch might be fine, 8 and above get much larger).

Edited November 5, 2023 by Elp

[cajen2]

I'd agree. An 8" dob is manageable if you're only going through a doorway for a few metres but I wouldn't trust myself up and down stairs with one. I used to have the StellaLyra 8" mentioned above; I'm 6'4" and no weakling but it's not so much the weight. It's just so awkward to carry safely. A tabletop 6" dob, however, is easy and might be just what you need.

[bomberbaz]

Another option is a truss type arrangement. These do take a short while to setup, is a little bit more expensive but would certainly be maximizing your light grasp.

I have a similar version in 14" and it isn't a big deal moving as such, but I accepted the setup of this at the outset, I knew exactly what I was letting myself in for. 

https://www.harrisontelescopes.co.uk/acatalog/explore-scientific-ultra-light-10-dobsonian.html#SID=1644

[bomberbaz]

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-250px-flextube-dobsonian.html

 

Then to be fair this version is far easier to setup but is quite a bit heavier than the truss option, you should be aware of both what is required to set up and your own physical capabilities before you commit to either of the above but both are flexible options aimed at maximizing your viewing potential.

Edited November 6, 2023 by bomberbaz

[bomberbaz]

A review of the explore scientific version. Looks a decent piece of kit.

https://youtu.be/Dlz-w3DGF-8

[Ithan]

Thank you everyone very much for your answers i appreciate it. I found a dobsonian 8" used at 400€ and i'm thinking to buy it. In the feature can i use another mount to use the same telescope for astrophotography?

[Mandy D]

1 hour ago, Ithan said:

Thank you everyone very much for your answers i appreciate it. I found a dobsonian 8" used at 400€ and i'm thinking to buy it. In the feature can i use another mount to use the same telescope for astrophotography?

Yes, absolutely. I often mount mine on a Skytee 2 AZ mount. I've fitted a set of rings and Vixen dovetail to the OTA and it still has the Dobsonian altitude bearings on the tube. It goes back on the Dob base with the rings and dovetail fitted, no problem. See photo:

[Cosmic Geoff]

20 hours ago, Ithan said:

I found a dobsonian 8" used at 400€ and i'm thinking to buy it. In the feature can i use another mount to use the same telescope for astrophotography?

Have you any idea what a deep-space astrophotography-ready mount for an 8" Newtonian OTA looks like? It will cost you a lot more than 400 euros.  It would be better to use the dob for visual and buy something else for imaging - depending on what exactly you want to image the  possibilities range from a DSLR on a tracking mount to a large telescope on a very heavy and very expensive GoTo mount.

[Elp]

Also a Newtonian tube is like a wind sail, any slight hint of a breeze and an image can be ruined, even more why a mount for photographic (even visual) use is very important. Thinking about it, my scopes have typically been one of the cheapest items purchased (no premium ones here) but puts into context the importance of other items, mount + tripod is top of the list.

[Bugdozer]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here but which is definitely something you should be aware of: It can be hard to find objects in a telescope at first. If you're looking for something below naked eye visibility that you can't see through your finderscope and then dealing with manually pushing a big tube which itself is giving you a mirrored image, it can be very tricky to get what you want in the field of view. Before I got my goto scope, I would say at least half my time under the stars was spent just trying to locate the objects rather than actually observing them. As you get more experienced this becomes less of a problem, but it puts off a lot of beginners at first because it generates frustration. That galaxy isn't in the field of view, but do you go up? Down? Left? Right? etc.

[woldsman]

A reflector telescope on a Dobsonian mount is the easiest to set up and also the easiest to view objects high in the sky for a new starter.  An 8 inch (200mm aperture) mirror with a tube length of 1,000mm is also the biggest unit the average healthy person can carry outside and store conveniently inside.  (You can go smaller but 150mm or 6 inch aperture is probably the limit for deep sky objects). Good news is that this is also the cheapest option and there are nearly always second-hand 8 inch reflectors being offered for sale. First steps are much easier if you upgrade to a rignt-angled finder scope, add a dew heater band to the finder scope, and add a red-dot finder. Observing is then red-dot finder, to finder-scope, to widefield eye piece (25-26mm is standard), to higher magnification eye piece.

Is there a catch? Well, yes there is one.  The downside to a reflector is that for best results you need to collimate (align) the primary and secondary mirrors. The better quality reflector telescopes have easier to adjust collimation screws. You also need to have a collimation cap and a Cheshire eyepiece. These are inexpensive accessories and not very difficult to use but there is some learning here. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by woldsman