Import VAT on Item Repaired in the US

[orly_andico]

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has had something repaired/warrantied in the US.

My situation:  I discovered that my over ten-year old handpad has some display corruption and the battery is low. It needs a special battery with a pigtail and the vendor (AP) has advised that shipping the battery alone would incur a $120 "hazardous materials processing" charge if shipped - but this charge is not present if the battery is installed in equipment.  They suggested I ship them the entire handpad, they replace the battery, reflash the firmware, etc. etc. and ship it back. They said this would cost less or about the same as the $120 charge alone, and I would not have to replace the battery myself (which is a very involved procedure).

My concern is - will HMRC whack me for taxes?  the handpad is a $1000 item so it would attract a $200 tax if ever.  Anyone have any experience with AP gear sent to the US for repair?

[geoflewis]

13 hours ago, orly_andico said:

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone has had something repaired/warrantied in the US.

My situation:  I discovered that my over ten-year old handpad has some display corruption and the battery is low. It needs a special battery with a pigtail and the vendor (AP) has advised that shipping the battery alone would incur a $120 "hazardous materials processing" charge if shipped - but this charge is not present if the battery is installed in equipment.  They suggested I ship them the entire handpad, they replace the battery, reflash the firmware, etc. etc. and ship it back. They said this would cost less or about the same as the $120 charge alone, and I would not have to replace the battery myself (which is a very involved procedure).

My concern is - will HMRC whack me for taxes?  the handpad is a $1000 item so it would attract a $200 tax if ever.  Anyone have any experience with AP gear sent to the US for repair?

I had the same issue earlier this year when the battery in my AP1200 HC died. I tried everywhere in the UK to buy one of these pigtail batteries, but they are not available to end customers like us. I found a couple of sources in the UK that had them, but they wouldn't supply to me as they only supply to OEM manufacturers for inclusion in their products. I also spoke to Telescop Service Baader Planetarium in Germany who are an AP supplier, but they said that the admin / paperwork since Brexit, meant that they would not ship a spare battery to me in the UK. My solution was to carry the HC with me on a holiday to the USA, ship it internally within USA and bring it back home with together with a spare pigtail battery (you can carry them in your carry-on, just not allowed in the hold. I know of one person here in the UK that carefully removed the pigtails from the old battery and soldered them on to a standard battery of the same specification, but that's not something I felt I could do.

Good luck.

Edited October 26, 2023 by geoflewis
Baader not TS

[orly_andico]

Thanks Geof.  I'm not traveling to the US anytime soon. I did think about de-soldering the pigtail and putting it on a new battery as a last resort.  That option just moved up my list..

 

So am I correct in assuming that HMRC will end up whacking me for taxes for the full value of the HC even if it originated in the UK?

[geoflewis]

4 minutes ago, orly_andico said:

So am I correct in assuming that HMRC will end up whacking me for taxes for the full value of the HC even if it originated in the UK?

As I understand it you will not have to pay import duty or taxes on the original value of the repaired item, just the cost of the repair, but you may want to check this page on gov.uk.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-outward-processing-to-process-or-repair-your-goods

[orly_andico]

I did read that page before posting here... and came away understanding less than before reading the page. So much of the documentation presupposes that you know things already, e.g. how to get an export relief declaration; how to file an export declaration; etc. Lots of fun for the small business owner, less fun for me..

I may go down the desolder the pigtail route; or, if George can give me the part number of the pigtail and battery, make up a new set myself. 

[geoflewis]

28 minutes ago, orly_andico said:

I may go down the desolder the pigtail route; or, if George can give me the part number of the pigtail and battery, make up a new set myself.

Do these photos help?

[VNA]

4 hours ago, orly_andico said:

My concern is - will HMRC whack me for taxes?  the handpad is a $1000 item so it would attract a $200 tax if ever.  Anyone have any experience with AP gear sent to the US for repair?

 

Hello, no VAT and no taxes on labour.
Taxes vary from state to states. But if it is under warranty there should not be any taxes.

[geoflewis]

5 hours ago, VNA said:

 

Hello, no VAT and no taxes on labour.
Taxes vary from state to states. But if it is under warranty there should not be any taxes.

VAT (Value Added Tax) is a European/UK tax due whenever value is added, be that for goods or services, so it will become due on re-import to the UK. It is unrelared to whatever taxes are due within the USA. This is not a warranty repair, but replacement of an expired battery in the HC that is probably many years old. The one in mine failed after at least 8 years as that's how long I've owned the mount and possibly 15 years as that is how old the mount was when the battery died since it's manufacture in 2007.

[LandyJon]

A quick Google and you can get that CR2430 battery with pigtails, just need to solder the wires on.

not sure if this is what you ment, but desoldering the pigtails worried me with potential shorts soldering on to the new battery.

Having the pigtails from the factory and soldering your harness on seems easy enough ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=cr2430 battery with pigtail

£5 from ebay etc.

[geoflewis]

5 minutes ago, LandyJon said:

A quick Google and you can get that CR2430 battery with pigtails, just need to solder the wires on.

not sure if this is what you ment, but desoldering the pigtails worried me with potential shorts soldering on to the new battery.

Having the pigtails from the factory and soldering your harness on seems easy enough ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=cr2430 battery with pigtail

£5 from ebay etc.

Hi Jon,

I tried all (well many) of those suppliers earlier this year, but they do not have any CR2430 batteries where the pigtails are flat (Renata CR2430FV-LF) rather than perpendicular to the battery as seen in those links. That may have changed in the past 6 months, so it's always worth asking, however, the suppliers that I spoke to that said that they could source them, stated that as they would be coming from a USA warehouse, the delivery charge would be in excess of £100...!!

@orly_andico Have you received the instructions from Astro-Physics on fitting the battery? If not, then this link might help.....https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/keypad/install-pigtail-harness-new-battery.pdf

[Elp]

Do the lead contacts have to be soldered on? It's just metal on metal contact and surely can be secured another way onto the battery? I recently replaced a watch battery that had a custom plate stuck to it (you can't buy the batteries they're only supplied to the OEM), I managed to take the plate off the old battery and just overlaid it onto the new equivalent voltage battery and it still worked.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Elp

[malc-c]

If the battery required is the same as that shown in Geoffs post above you can get replacements in the UK.  Most component supplier such as RS, Farnells or Mouser stock them, including ones with tags that can be soldered direct to a PCB.  If you are not bothered about the capacity (the 2430 is a 300mA battery) I have 2032 batteries (225mA), with the same plug sitting in my components draw.  If replacing the battery is a simple task (such as undo screws, remove case, detach battery, plug in replacement and screw the cover back on) then  drop me a PM with your address and I'll send you one.

 

[geoflewis]

15 minutes ago, Elp said:

Do the lead contacts have to be soldered on? It's just metal on metal contact and surely can be secured another way onto the battery? I recently replaced a watch battery that had a custom plate stuck to it (you can't buy the batteries they're only supplied to the OEM), I managed to take the plate off the old battery and just overlaid it onto the new equivalent voltage battery and it still worked.

That's a good question. The battery is what retains the catelogue of non stellar DSO objects, e.g. Messier, NGC, IC, etc., so if the connection fails these need to be downloaded and reinstalled, so I think a very secure connection is desirable, but.... 🤔

[malc-c]

Just took a look at the instructions linked to in a post above, so its a PCB mounted battery,  This 2032 has a 1ah capacity and appears to have tags in the same position

£3.37 inc VAT form Farnells (plus delivery)

Edited October 26, 2023 by malc-c

[geoflewis]

5 minutes ago, malc-c said:

If the battery required is the same as that shown in Geoffs post above you can get replacements in the UK.  Most component supplier such as RS, Farnells or Mouser stock them, including ones with tags that can be soldered direct to a PCB.  If you are not bothered about the capacity (the 2430 is a 300mA battery) I have 2032 batteries (225mA), with the same plug sitting in my components draw.  If replacing the battery is a simple task (such as undo screws, remove case, detach battery, plug in replacement and screw the cover back on) then  drop me a PM with your address and I'll send you one.

 

Well that was not my experience. I contacted RS, Farnells, Mouser and a bunch of other suppliers and they did not stock the required CR2430FV-LF battery. I have no idea whether a different spec battery like the 2032 would work. From what i understand accessing the battery compartment in the HC is something of a pig to do, so in the end I resorted to geting Astro-Physics to replace it and update firmware and databases at the same time. Expensive, but guaranteed to work.

[Elp]

A quick search of that battery finds a UK supplier on the first page. Obviously vet the supplier if you choose to make a purchase.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Elp

[geoflewis]

9 minutes ago, malc-c said:

Just took a look at the instructions linked to in a post above, so its a PCB mounted battery,  This 2032 has a 1ah capacity and appears to have tags in the same position

£3.37 inc VAT form Farnells (plus delivery)

Hi Malcolm,

You're clearly more familiar with the working of these cell batteries than me, but everything that I found online said that there is no equivalent battery to replace the CR2430. As an example see this extract from utmel site (full site link below quote).

"Coin-operated security sensors, such as the CR2430, are often compact and unobtrusive. However, because CR2430 batteries are wider than CR2025 and CR2032 cells, they cannot be used interchangeably. Even though  CR2025 batteries are slightly thinner, they can sometimes be substituted for CR2032 batteries. There is no actual equivalent for a CR2430 battery.  and they are quite an unusual size in the world of batteries."

https://www.utmel.com/components/battery-cr2430-3v-lithium-battery-cr2430-equivalents-and-cr2430-vs-cr2032?id=948

Personally I would not take the risk on a high-end, expensive item of kit.

[geoflewis]

4 minutes ago, Elp said:

A quick search of that battery finds a UK supplier on the first page. Obviously vet the supplier if you choose to make a purchase.

Who?

[Elp]

https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/lithium-button-cell-blister-cr2430fv-lf-renata-3v-285mah-pbl7312b.html

 

[malc-c]

 

2 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

Hi Malcolm,

You're clearly more familiar with the working of these cell batteries than me, but everything that I found online said that there is no equivalent battery to replace the CR2430. As an example see this extract from utmel site (full site link below quote).

"Coin-operated security sensors, such as the CR2430, are often compact and unobtrusive. However, because CR2430 batteries are wider than CR2025 and CR2032 cells, they cannot be used interchangeably. Even though  CR2025 batteries are slightly thinner, they can sometimes be substituted for CR2032 batteries. There is no actual equivalent for a CR2430 battery.  and they are quite an unusual size in the world of batteries."

https://www.utmel.com/components/battery-cr2430-3v-lithium-battery-cr2430-equivalents-and-cr2430-vs-cr2032?id=948

Personally I would not take the risk on a high-end, expensive item of kit.

If the 2430 is thicker then a thinner 2032 will fit.  It only becomes a problem if it was the other way around

Edited October 26, 2023 by malc-c

[geoflewis]

7 minutes ago, Elp said:

https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/lithium-button-cell-blister-cr2430fv-lf-renata-3v-285mah-pbl7312b.html

 

That's great news. I tried them earlier this year and they said it would have to come from the USA so shipping cost was >£100. Maybe they now have some in the UK.....

[malc-c]

2430 Tagged - £3.10 each 

Should be easy enough to follow the instructions linked to above and solder the wires to the tags

[malc-c]

18 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

 

Personally I would not take the risk on a high-end, expensive item of kit.

If I've followed this thread, the 3v battery is used to keep the memory (or clock chip if one is used) alive rather than use flash memory that doesn't need power.  It's a 3v battery, and as such provided you maintain the polarity replacing it won't do any damage to the high end device.   

I would assume AP has a UK agent / distributor, and you purchased the device through a UK retailer ? - if so then I would have thought that  the retailer or the likes of FLO or RVO would be able replace the battery for you.

[geoflewis]

2 hours ago, malc-c said:

I would assume AP has a UK agent / distributor, and you purchased the device through a UK retailer ? - if so then I would have thought that  the retailer or the likes of FLO or RVO would be able replace the battery for you.

Nope, there is no UK retailer for Astro-Physics, hence the challenge. As mentioned above, I tried Telescop-Service Baader in Germany, but they said that Brexit made it too much trouble for them to supply such a low value item to the UK....!!

EDIT:

It was Baader Planetarium not Telescop-Service, so I've corrected above. Baader are one of only two A-P retailers/distributors in Europe. This is their reply to my enquiry...

Hello Geof,

I hope I have good news for you.

After our export dept. told me that shipping this battery will minimum 40 EUR plus price of the battery, plus import tax, plus...pluss... (which is close to what everybody else told you) I asked our UK representant Dr. Lee Sprouts if he has an idea how to help you. He came up with this link https://www.allbatteries.co.uk/lithium-button-cell-blister-cr2430fv-lf-renata-3v-285mah-pbl7312b.html

Looks like they ship to consumers in small qty. He says he used this store before and is sure it is not a scam, even if the partial French text in the product description is a bit surprising. Maybe you should just place an order, at that amount you don't take a high risk. I hope this solves your problem!

Best regards,
Michael
Michael Risch
BAADER PLANETARIUM GMBH

I tried allbatteries, but they didn't have any in stock in the UK and shipping from USA was >£100 for a single battery. I gave up after that......

[malc-c]

Just now, geoflewis said:

Nope, there is no UK retailer for Astro-Physics, hence the challenge. As mentioned above, I tried Telescop-Service in Germany, but they said that Brexit made it to much trouble for them to supply such a low value item to the UK....!!

I'm wondering if the original concept was that AP never envisaged the device lasting longer than the life of the battery, otherwise they would have designed it so the 3v cell could be replaced.   I guess the options are 

• source a battery from the UK and follow the guide above to replace the existing battery yourself
• source the battery and obtain a quote from FLO / RVO or an electronics repair company to have them replace the battery for you
• spend a small fortune to return the item to an authorized AP agent in the EU that's willing to do the paperwork involved
• spend even more and return it to the manufacture in the states.