Laptop for EAA and planetary

[bosun21]

I am looking to buy a laptop for the above. I am looking at the 16GB models. Which is better an Intel or AMD Ryzen. I recall reading that some software can have problems with the AMD versions. Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

[bosun21]

Is the choice of processor important and what sort of storage should I be looking for? Thanks.

[Elp]

Processor drives everything so get the best possible if you're looking to use the laptop long term, top end being Intel i9 then i7 or AMD Ryzen 9. Storage nowadays is SSD, NVME type, no point in using old HDDs now unless for archiving at mass volume. Budget will dictate the quality of computer, if you're not too bothered any cheap laptop will do really, just make sure the USB ports are USB 3.2 (or now 4) for full bandwidth file transfer. I wouldn't get anything older than maybe 2 years as it may struggle or have compatibility issues with Windows 11 if you decide to upgrade the OS which will be a necessity in a few years time. Nothing wrong with old OSs, but the drive for updates and such make them unnecessarily defunct before they need to be.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Elp

[Beardy30]

1 hour ago, bosun21 said:

I am looking to buy a laptop for the above. I am looking at the 16GB models. Which is better an Intel or AMD Ryzen. I recall reading that some software can have problems with the AMD versions. Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

Getting into EAA bosun21 ? Fantastic be keen to swop some ideas at some point 

[PeterC65]

I generally err towards Intel rather than AMD because they have always been the main provider and innovator of processors for PCs, but these days applications software is very far removed from the processor on which it is running so I doubt there will be any difference.

I use SharpCap on an Intel i7 (12th generation i7-12700H 2.3GHz) and it works fine. The most processor intensive task, the only thing where I notice any delay at all, is plate solving, and that usually completes in a few seconds. The i number is not the whole story with processors and you should compare the benchmark performance of the specific processors that you are considering. Things like caching, the clocking rate, and the generation of the processor also have an effect on their performance.

You don't need a separate graphics card or graphics processor for SharpCap, the main processor's graphics capability is sufficient, but you should go for 16GB of RAM as it will be shared with the graphics space.

My newish laptop has a SSD and these are much better than a mechanical HDD. The laptop boots in a few seconds rather than minutes which is a big advantage, and you will not need to worry about the image capture rate. I would err on the side of a bigger SSD. Mine is 450GB and 64% of it is used. You will need to record many frames of the Moon and planets for later post processing and these can easily consume tens of GB. I tend to keep snapshots of the live stacks I see on the night, and even this eats up the storage quite quickly (I've thought about buying a NAS).

Any newish laptop will support USB3, but it is only usable with short (<2m) cables. With my rig on the patio and the laptop just inside the door I need a 5m cable which limits me to USB2. Not a problem for DSO EAA but it can slow down the image capture rate on the Moon and planets. With planets I just use a smaller ROI and then the frame rate is fine.

One thing I would highly recommend for EAA is a second, large, monitor. SharpCap uses much of the screen real-estate for camera, rig, and image controls, and most laptop screens are small. With my 16" laptop screen I can sensibly see an 8" diagonal image. So I have a second 27" 4K monitor which gives me a MUCH bigger image at the full resolution of my camera, with the SharpCap controls, or what I should be seeing from Stellarium or the Virtual Moon Atlas, displayed on the laptop.

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by PeterC65

[Clarkey]

I think for capture only a pretty basic laptop will be fine. I have a very basic one (with usb3 and SSD) and it is more than adequate. However, if you are looking to process as well then it's worth getting something better. I process on a separate desktop PC as the specs are much better for the price.

[bosun21]

2 hours ago, Beardy30 said:

Getting into EAA bosun21 ? Fantastic be keen to swop some ideas at some point 

Yes I’m going to dip my toes in finally after an eternity pondering it. Once I get the gear together I’ll be happy to swap ideas.

[bosun21]

On 17/10/2023 at 19:35, PeterC65 said:

I generally err towards Intel rather than AMD because they have always been the main provider and innovator of processors for PCs, but these days applications software is very far removed from the processor on which it is running so I doubt there will be any difference.

I use SharpCap on an Intel i7 (12th generation i7-12700H 2.3GHz) and it works fine. The most processor intensive task, the only thing where I notice any delay at all, is plate solving, and that usually completes in a few seconds. The i number is not the whole story with processors and you should compare the benchmark performance of the specific processors that you are considering. Things like caching, the clocking rate, and the generation of the processor also have an effect on their performance.

You don't need a separate graphics card or graphics processor for SharpCap, the main processor's graphics capability is sufficient, but you should go for 16GB of RAM as it will be shared with the graphics space.

My newish laptop has a SSD and these are much better than a mechanical HDD. The laptop boots in a few seconds rather than minutes which is a big advantage, and you will not need to worry about the image capture rate. I would err on the side of a bigger SSD. Mine is 450GB and 64% of it is used. You will need to record many frames of the Moon and planets for later post processing and these can easily consume tens of GB. I tend to keep snapshots of the live stacks I see on the night, and even this eats up the storage quite quickly (I've thought about buying a NAS).

Any newish laptop will support USB3, but it is only usable with short (<2m) cables. With my rig on the patio and the laptop just inside the door I need a 5m cable which limits me to USB2. Not a problem for DSO EAA but it can slow down the image capture rate on the Moon and planets. With planets I just use a smaller ROI and then the frame rate is fine.

One thing I would highly recommend for EAA is a second, large, monitor. SharpCap uses much of the screen real-estate for camera, rig, and image controls, and most laptop screens are small. With my 16" laptop screen I can sensibly see an 8" diagonal image. So I have a second 27" 4K monitor which gives me a MUCH bigger image at the full resolution of my camera, with the SharpCap controls, or what I should be seeing from Stellarium or the Virtual Moon Atlas, displayed on the laptop.

 

What software do you use to do the plate solving Peter? I will also need to use a 5m USB2 cable until I move to an asiair.

[PeterC65]

56 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

What software do you use to do the plate solving Peter? I will also need to use a 5m USB2 cable until I move to an asiair.

I use the All Sky Plate Solver, but I use it from within SharpCap. SharpCap can work with several different plate solving applications and it makes their use seamless. So I just press a button to plate sole and it does it, then afterwards I can re-sync the mount (automatically if I choose), or get SharpCap to annotate the current image so that I can see what's what. I use plate solving almost every time I start observing an object.

I'm sure there are many advantages to using the ASIair but I get the impression that most people prefer SharpCap to the ASIair software for EAA.

 

[bosun21]

41 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

I use the All Sky Plate Solver, but I use it from within SharpCap. SharpCap can work with several different plate solving applications and it makes their use seamless. So I just press a button to plate sole and it does it, then afterwards I can re-sync the mount (automatically if I choose), or get SharpCap to annotate the current image so that I can see what's what. I use plate solving almost every time I start observing an object.

I'm sure there are many advantages to using the ASIair but I get the impression that most people prefer SharpCap to the ASIair software for EAA.

 

How do you control your mount?

[PeterC65]

3 minutes ago, bosun21 said:

How do you control your mount?

I have a SynScan AZ GOTO mount with a handset. The handset has a USB port which I connect to a USB hub fixed to the mount. The camera and electronic filter wheel also connect to this hub and the hub is powered from a battery also fixed to the mount. The hub is connected to the laptop via a single 5m USB cable.

On the laptop I have installed the ASCOM platform and the ASCOM driver for the mount. This setup allows the mount to be controlled by any ASCOM compatible software running on the laptop, and in particular, multiple applications can share the control of the mount.

I run SharpCap and connect this to the mount, so I can nudge the mounts position using the mount slew keys in SharpCap, and SharpCap can control the mount for re-syncing after plate solving. I also run Stellarium and this is what I mainly use to the control the mount, so finding the next object to observe, GOTO it, and track it. I start SharpCap before Stellarium because Stellarium does not reliably fire up the ASCOM platform.

My procedure is:

• Select object in Stellarium and GOTO.
• Unless I can obviously see the object in a single frame of the cameras field of view, get SharpCap to plate solve and re-sync the mount which usually re-centres the object in the field of view.
• Use the SharpCap mount slew keys to tweak the mounts position until I'm happy with the framing.
• Start stacking.

The new SharpCap v4.1 does have an object catalogue and you can select the target from there and get it to GOTO and track without using Stellarium. I've tried it once and the mount decided to do a pirouette so I aborted it. It was the mount at fault, not SharpCap, so I may try it again, but I think I prefer Stellarium as it gives a sense of where the object is in the sky, lets you see what you should be seeing, and I have my local horizon setup in Stellarium so I can check if an object might be obscured by the house or by trees.

 

[bosun21]

21 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

I have a SynScan AZ GOTO mount with a handset. The handset has a USB port which I connect to a USB hub fixed to the mount. The camera and electronic filter wheel also connect to this hub and the hub is powered from a battery also fixed to the mount. The hub is connected to the laptop via a single 5m USB cable.

On the laptop I have installed the ASCOM platform and the ASCOM driver for the mount. This setup allows the mount to be controlled by any ASCOM compatible software running on the laptop, and in particular, multiple applications can share the control of the mount.

I run SharpCap and connect this to the mount, so I can nudge the mounts position using the mount slew keys in SharpCap, and SharpCap can control the mount for re-syncing after plate solving. I also run Stellarium and this is what I mainly use to the control the mount, so finding the next object to observe, GOTO it, and track it. I start SharpCap before Stellarium because Stellarium does not reliably fire up the ASCOM platform.

My procedure is:

• Select object in Stellarium and GOTO.
• Unless I can obviously see the object in a single frame of the cameras field of view, get SharpCap to plate solve and re-sync the mount which usually re-centres the object in the field of view.
• Use the SharpCap mount slew keys to tweak the mounts position until I'm happy with the framing.
• Start stacking.

The new SharpCap v4.1 does have an object catalogue and you can select the target from there and get it to GOTO and track without using Stellarium. I've tried it once and the mount decided to do a pirouette so I aborted it. It was the mount at fault, not SharpCap, so I may try it again, but I think I prefer Stellarium as it gives a sense of where the object is in the sky, lets you see what you should be seeing, and I have my local horizon setup in Stellarium so I can check if an object might be obscured by the house or by trees.

 

Thanks Peter, it's appreciated 👍.

[bosun21]

On 20/10/2023 at 10:16, PeterC65 said:

I use the All Sky Plate Solver, but I use it from within SharpCap. SharpCap can work with several different plate solving applications and it makes their use seamless. So I just press a button to plate sole and it does it, then afterwards I can re-sync the mount (automatically if I choose), or get SharpCap to annotate the current image so that I can see what's what. I use plate solving almost every time I start observing an object.

I'm sure there are many advantages to using the ASIair but I get the impression that most people prefer SharpCap to the ASIair software for EAA.

 

Getting everything together now and just need to get a 4K monitor, though I can get started without that. How do I get All Sky to work within Sharpcap? Sorry for all the questions.

[PeterC65]

1 hour ago, bosun21 said:

Getting everything together now and just need to get a 4K monitor, though I can get started without that. How do I get All Sky to work within Sharpcap? Sorry for all the questions.

I'm quite happy to answer questions, the more people who try EAA the better as far as I'm concerned.

You just need to download it from here, then install it stand alone. You can use it stand alone but I always use it from within Stellarium. If you let the plate solver install to its default directory, SharpCap will be able to find it and use it. You just need to select it in the SharpCap Settings menu (under the Plate Solver tab). It was surprisingly easy to set up as I remember.

Once you've installed the All Sky Plate Soler software, the first time you run it you will be asked to download the appropriate data files. Which files are appropriate depends on your scope / camera setup and the software guides you through this. I downloaded all of the data files that just might be needed and that seems to work well, but the data files are massive and it took all night for me to download what I needed over my 3Mbps broadband link. So plan to do the setup well before you need to use it in anger.

 

[bosun21]

45 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

I'm quite happy to answer questions, the more people who try EAA the better as far as I'm concerned.

You just need to download it from here, then install it stand alone. You can use it stand alone but I always use it from within Stellarium. If you let the plate solver install to its default directory, SharpCap will be able to find it and use it. You just need to select it in the SharpCap Settings menu (under the Plate Solver tab). It was surprisingly easy to set up as I remember.

Once you've installed the All Sky Plate Soler software, the first time you run it you will be asked to download the appropriate data files. Which files are appropriate depends on your scope / camera setup and the software guides you through this. I downloaded all of the data files that just might be needed and that seems to work well, but the data files are massive and it took all night for me to download what I needed over my 3Mbps broadband link. So plan to do the setup well before you need to use it in anger.

 

Thanks Peter 👍.

[PeterC65]

@bosun21 The latest version of SharpCap, released a couple of days ago, now includes a built in plate solver, meaning that you don't need to download a third party tool and all of its data. I've just downloaded it and so haven't tried it yet, but the information online suggests it is faster and easier to use the the third party tools.

 

[bomberbaz]

I don't know if you bought a laptop yet but I currently run a Ryzen 7 (only 8gb ram though) for leisure purposes and it is as fast as hell. 

Plus a little searching will show you that they are less expensive than intel processors who have been having us along with their pricing for a few years until the ryzen came along.

It was my local pc shop (independents) who told me this. My pc and both laptops are now ryzen based systems and none have ever given me problems.

100% agree that get one with SSD, actually don't know if they do laptops with HDD.  Not sure you actually need 16GB ram but getting it does offer some future proofing.

Curry's have a great Lenovo (good brand) with touch screen. I have a touch screen for work, I may make it into an EEVA laptop when I retire, they are so easy to use and could easily see touch screen being very beneficial in the dark.   Laptop

[bosun21]

1 hour ago, bomberbaz said:

I don't know if you bought a laptop yet but I currently run a Ryzen 7 (only 8gb ram though) for leisure purposes and it is as fast as hell. 

Plus a little searching will show you that they are less expensive than intel processors who have been having us along with their pricing for a few years until the ryzen came along.

It was my local pc shop (independents) who told me this. My pc and both laptops are now ryzen based systems and none have ever given me problems.

100% agree that get one with SSD, actually don't know if they do laptops with HDD.  Not sure you actually need 16GB ram but getting it does offer some future proofing.

Curry's have a great Lenovo (good brand) with touch screen. I have a touch screen for work, I may make it into an EEVA laptop when I retire, they are so easy to use and could easily see touch screen being very beneficial in the dark.   Laptop

Thanks for the information but I have already bought a Lenovo ThinkPad 16GB   
i7 processor with a 512GB SSD. I also added a 1TB plug in SSD. It’s amazingly fast but I have yet to try it out for astro.

[bosun21]

3 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

@bosun21 The latest version of SharpCap, released a couple of days ago, now includes a built in plate solver, meaning that you don't need to download a third party tool and all of its data. I've just downloaded it and so haven't tried it yet, but the information online suggests it is faster and easier to use the the third party tools.

 

I bought  Sharpcap pro on Saturday but I don’t know if it has the plate solving ability you mentioned. How do I check? and if not is there an update to add it? Knowing my luck I will have missed it by a day or two. The version I bought is v4.1 11137 64 bit.

Edited November 1, 2023 by bosun21

[johnturley]

2 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

@bosun21 The latest version of SharpCap, released a couple of days ago, now includes a built in plate solver, meaning that you don't need to download a third party tool and all of its data. I've just downloaded it and so haven't tried it yet, but the information online suggests it is faster and easier to use the the third party tools.

 

Is that Sharpcap 4.0.9538, I've just downloaded the update from Sharcap 4.0

John 

[happy-kat]

I'm on the same 4.0 something so will download that newest 4.1 version. Thanks for the mention of this.

For bosun21 download the latest and put your pro license details in it if they're not showing and it'll be fine 

Edited November 1, 2023 by happy-kat

[bosun21]

2 hours ago, johnturley said:

Duplicate post 

Edited November 1, 2023 by bosun21

[bomberbaz]

Sorry don't want to hijack the thread with this question but I am sure OP will find it useful too. 

Does sharpcap allow for guiding at all?

I found the plate solving easily enough but can't find anything on guiding!

Steve

[bosun21]

2 hours ago, johnturley said:

Is that Sharpcap 4.0.9538, I've just downloaded the update from Sharcap 4.0

John 

The Sharpcap I just bought is version v4.1 11137. Which is the most recent?

[PeterC65]

3 hours ago, bosun21 said:

I bought  Sharpcap pro on Saturday but I don’t know if it has the plate solving ability you mentioned. How do I check? and if not is there an update to add it? Knowing my luck I will have missed it by a day or two. The version I bought is v4.1 11137 64 bit.

A SharpCap Pro licence gives you free updates throughout the life of the licence. You can buy a lifetime licence for it now by the way. So even if you have recently downloaded SharpCap you will be able to download the latest version with the built in plate solver.

When you install an update it just works by the way, preserving all your previous settings. Robin Glover should give masterclasses in how to write good software.