Real first light

[SwiMatt]

The weather forecast for tonight has been positive for days now, so I prepared for my first day out with the SkyMax 127. I bought it before summer on a whim (and a bargain), but in summer here it never gets dark, so besides a few uses behind a window for a few stars late at night, I didn't really use it. Until yesterday!

During my runs, I had found previously the perfect spot to set up, a 10-15 minutes walk from my home. This is an opening in a forest on semi-flat rocky terrain, with a free horizon on the South and good views North and East. Another 200 meter from it there is another opening offering a view on the West, also. For info, I am in Bortle 7 skies, with the views towards NW/W slightly worse (the city center is in that direction).

I set up behind some trees to shield myself from the "pesky" almost-full Moon - which will be a constant in the session as it washed out the sky. Now I was ready to start this journey. I had been thinking of this symbolic moment for a while: where do I look first? I see Cygnus in the sky and almost without thinking, I easily find Albireo, which with the super 25mm (60x) is already beautiful. The blue and orange tones are so neat and crisp, I can't believe what I'm looking at - my first time seeing such colors in the sky. I increase the magnitude to 100x and then 150x, I like the view in the BST 15mm in particular. Past that, using the barlow, the stars get a bit less crisp, so I stick to the BST and take a good long look.

Next, I point towards Epsilon Lyrae, the double double, and start the same process of increasing magnification. The first split is well visible in the 6x30 finder already, but I never manage to achieve the second split. At 200x I see some traces of possible split, but it still eludes me, and at 300x I cannot reach focus altogether. 

OK, time to look for something more difficult to find. I stay in Lyrae and try to find the ring nebula, M57. It's easy enough to find, between two bright stars, but it's still a surprise when this blob appears in my eyepiece. I try to play with magnification, but while the stars in the field are crisp, the nebula seems to always be out of focus. I assume the Moon is at fault here, so M57 is too faint to be observed properly. Averted vision helps, but it's still a bit frustrating.

Looking elsewhere, I want to try pointing at other objects that I can find easily in binoculars. The double cluster in Perseus seems well positioned, and I think I glimpsed it but at this point the Moon is about to come out of the trees - no place to hide. Looking for M13, it's even hard to successfully identify the rosetta in Hercules. M39 in Cygnus (my current favorite in binoculars) is also a failure. I later tried to find these with binoculars but it's absolutely impossible.

So I move my attention to planets. I decide to move my set up slightly to have a good view towards Saturn, I set my eyes on it with 60x and... holy moly. I'm in disbelief of what I'm seeing. It's like if someone printed a dark yellowish piece of paper in the shape of Saturn and put it in my eyepiece. I play with magnification (barlow + 15mm BST is my favorite combination). Up to 200x it remains so crisp and it's an absolute beauty. I can never find the Cassini division - but considering the orientation of the rings, maybe it's not too surprising? What hits me the most is that, while I was expecting an object with the silhouette of Saturn (planet, rings), I was not expecting to be able to see so neatly the separation between the planet and the rings. I could really see that the two are distinct entities. This is my first view of Saturn, and I couldn't be more satisfied with it. 

With Jupiter still behind trees, I decide to let completely go of DSOs and go for the Moon. Ouch. The light is blinding at first, and it never gets comfortable to look at. When I look away from the eyepiece, my pupils are differently dilated and it's one of the most uncomfortable views I've ever had in the dark. But the Moon is, indeed, beautiful. I move my gaze around on the surface, and focus my attention on the large amount of craters on the terminator first, then on Mare Crisium and, while there isn't too much to see because of how bright it all is, I say hi to the LM of Apollo 11 on Mare Tranquillitatis. 

Blind in my right eye, I see that Jupiter finally shows in the sky. Just the time to point at it, and I'm welcomed with the beautiful planet with its parade of Galilean moons: Callisto and Io on the left, Europa and Ganymede on the right, all equidistant, symmetrically around the planet. To my inexperienced eyes, the planet shows a cream tint with two horizontal ochre bands. The great red spot isn't visible. 

At this point, I start thinking of closing the session. Everything else is so washed out and I have been out for 2 hours already. I make a last attempt to look for M27, which I don't find despite many attempts at star hopping. I end up taking in again the beauty of Albireo, and I try to split Epsilon Lyrae again, without success.

All in all, an amazing first session despite the Moon. The seeing was great, with very little atmospheric turbulence (and then again, only past the optical limits of my telescope). I also noted a few mistakes: 1) I forgot my dew shield. I was lucky it was not an issue in the end, but I will have to use checklists from now on. 2) My super 10mm fogged up in the middle of the section. It wasn't that bad since I don't like looking through it anyway, but I was still afraid it might happen to the other eyepieces. It didn't, but it's a worry. 3) Next time I need to bring water and snacks. I was famished when I got home. 4) I need to add a chair to the set up. Standing in itself was not an issue for me, but having the telescope lower will help with vibration reduction, as well as looking through the finder. 5) Talking about finder... I gotta get a red dot finder. The 6x30 was so uncomfortable. 6) I also need to get myself a Moon filter, the view was extremely uncomfortable.

Thanks for reading and for all the suggestions and guidance since I joined SGL. I would never have bought a Mak if it hadn't been for some suggestions here and it's a great portable set up. I owe you much! 😁

[John]

Great 1st light report 🙂

To keep your eyepieces dew free try and keep them a little warmer than the outside temperature. In a pocket perhaps ?

If they get really cold they tend to fog up as your eyeball gets close to them.

Each time you use the scope you will achieve more and more - just keep at it 🙂

[Nik271]

Well done! As a fellow owner of a Skymax 127 I think you made a great choice. It's a great planetary and double stars scope. Epsilon Lyrae is actully perfectly within its abilities, the key is to know what to look for. Use about x100-150 magnification for a split, the two pairs are just over 2'' apart and will look very close together two discs almost touching each other. You need good seeing and ideally to be seated to avoid even tiny shaking of your head.

A much easier and good looking double is Gamma Delphini, the nose of the dolphin, easy to find and you can split it even at x50 magnification. 

The ring nebula (and other DSOs) in the Skymax are best seen with some dark adaptation. Try to put a towel over your head to block the light, relax your eyes and look at it without staring directly (with averted vision). The ring shape gradully appears after a minute or two. 

As for the Moon, yes it is very bright at full moon, and actually not so interesting as the detail is washed out. At other times when the terminator is visible the view is definitely worth it! You can go to x200 and even above depending on seing, the view gets dimmer with magnification.

Jupiter is a tough one to see fine detail because the contrast in the bands is low. The Great Red Spot is not very red recenly and not that easy to see. Around x150 (and often only x100 if seeing is poor) in the Skymax is generally the most I use for Jupiter. Saturn is easier, you should be able to see hints of the Cassini division even now at the extreme 'ears' of the rings, but  againthis depends on the seeing being good.

After the full Moon passes I recommend you try to see M27 the Dumbbell nebula. It appears  like a delicate puff of smoke in the Skymax. Don't use very high magnification, about x50-70 will show it nicely.

Enjoy your scope!

 

Nik

 

[SwiMatt]

38 minutes ago, John said:

Great 1st light report 🙂

To keep your eyepieces dew free try and keep them a little warmer than the outside temperature. In a pocket perhaps ?

If they get really cold they tend to fog up as your eyeball gets close to them.

Each time you use the scope you will achieve more and more - just keep at it 🙂

Ah-ha! It wasn't so cold yesterday (15°C or so) but I will try just having the eyepieces in the funny bag I use for transportation. Thanks for the suggestion and the encouragement, it's appreciated! 🙂

9 minutes ago, Nik271 said:

Well done! As a fellow owner of a Skymax 127 I think you made a great choice. It's a great planetary and double stars scope. Epsilon Lyrae is actully perfectly within its abilities, the key is to know what to look for. Use about x100-150 magnification for a split, the two pairs are just over 2'' apart and will look very close together two discs almost touching each other. You need good seeing and ideally to be seated to avoid even tiny shaking of your head.

A much easier and good looking double is Gamma Delphini, the nose of the dolphin, easy to find and you can split it even at x50 magnification. 

The ring nebula (and other DSOs) in the Skymax are best seen with some dark adaptation. Try to put a towel over your head to block the light, relax your eyes and look at it without staring directly (with averted vision). The ring shape gradully appears after a minute or two. 

As for the Moon, yes it is very bright at full moon, and actually not so interesting as the detail is washed out. At other times when the terminator is visible the view is definitely worth it! You can go to x200 and even above depending on seing, the view gets dimmer with magnification.

Jupiter is a tough one to see fine detail because the contrast in the bands is low. The Great Red Spot is not very red recenly and not that easy to see. Around x150 (and often only x100 if seeing is poor) in the Skymax is generally the most I use for Jupiter. Saturn is easier, you should be able to see hints of the Cassini division even now at the extreme 'ears' of the rings, but  againthis depends on the seeing being good.

After the full Moon passes I recommend you try to see M27 the Dumbbell nebula. It appears  like a delicate puff of smoke in the Skymax. Don't use very high magnification, about x50-70 will show it nicely.

Enjoy your scope!

 

Nik

 

Thanks for the vrey precious suggestions @Nik271! It's awesome to have someone so knowledgeable and willing to share in this community 🙂

I will try again Epsilon Lyrae soon. For some reason I didn't remember the separation to be so narrow. I will surely have more sessions with double stars, I enjoy them both in binoculars and telescope.

I didn't expect this to be a night with good prospects for DSOs. The finder was also a problem, I'm still trying to learn how to use it - and I ended up in an unconfortable position with it. I will set up the tripod differently once I start sitting down.

I really expected the red spot to be quite easy to see, it's so prominent in pictures. But as always, pictures convey a different reality  as for Saturn, I will keep looking at it any chance I got. I also found out that I might often be able to see it from the street in front of my home without walking 10 minutes. Same with the Moon, I will definitely have some home sessions with it (I am thinking of starting the Lunar 100).

Thanks for the precious comments!!!

 

[Stu]

@SwiMatt you’ve had great advice already. All I’ll add is that the Ring Nebula won’t appear sharply defined compared with the surrounding stars. Get them sharp, centre M57 and then look just to one side of it. You should see something like a smoke ring with a centre which is just a little brighter than the surrounding sky. At low magnification it looks just like a fuzzy star, but shows its ring nature at higher powers. Have fun!

[Cosmic Geoff]

The 10mm eyepieces supplied with these kits are notoriously bad.  If you replace the so-called 'Super 10" with a 10mm eyepiece of better quality, you should be able to split e1 or e2 Lyrae with your telescope.

The Red Spot is not easy to see.  I don't think I ever saw it visually with my 127mm Mak, but it showed up very clearly when I imaged it.

[Stu]

I think once you’ve seen the Red Spot and know what to look for it is quite obvious. I’ve seen it in scopes down to 60mm though it is much easier in 100mm and above. I would think a 127mm Mak would show it quite clearly. Don’t over do the magnification, x150 to x180 is plenty in good conditions. Don’t forget that seeing conditions play a huge part in what you can see on any given night. Sometimes, if the jet stream is overhead Jupiter can look like it is under running water. At other times the clarity can be very good indeed.

Just incase you are uncertain, seeing and transparency are the two main sky quality measures. Seeing relates to the steadiness of the atmosphere and is often associated with hazy skies as they are still. These nights are great for bright planets and high mag viewing but less good for DSOs. Conversely conditions with very clear skies are often after a heavy rain shower which clears the air, or if high altitude winds are preventing any high haze from forming. These nights are great for faint deep sky objects but often not good for planets etc. you rarely get a very still and very transparent night together, so it’s worth choosing targets based on what the sky is doing.

Somewhere on the forum is a report from me with some descriptions and images of what I could actually see on Jupiter through a 4” frac. I’ll try to dig it out.

 

[SwiMatt]

20 minutes ago, Stu said:

@SwiMatt you’ve had great advice already. All I’ll add is that the Ring Nebula won’t appear sharply defined compared with the surrounding stars. Get them sharp, centre M57 and then look just to one side of it. You should see something like a smoke ring with a centre which is just a little brighter than the surrounding sky. At low magnification it looks just like a fuzzy star, but shows its ring nature at higher powers. Have fun!

Thanks for the detail @Stu! Sometimes it's hard to know what to look for and when one can be satisfied with what is being shown. Knowing this, maybe what I saw was what I need to expect (maybe easier on dark nights), so I will try to spend more time on it in the future. The reason I'm fairly sure I got it is that it did look like a ring of smoke, but I could only confirm it by moving it around in the eyepiece and seeing it consistently. At first I thought it was a spot in my eye.

 

22 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

The 10mm eyepieces supplied with these kits are notoriously bad.  If you replace the so-called 'Super 10" with a 10mm eyepiece of better quality, you should be able to split e1 or e2 Lyrae with your telescope.

The Red Spot is not easy to see.  I don't think I ever saw it visually with my 127mm Mak, but it showed up very clearly when I imaged it.

Yes, I am thinking to move quickly from the 10mm. I don't like it, especially because I need to keep on my glasses for optimal view (on objects like the moon, I can dare looking through the eyepiece without glasses, but not for fuzzy things), and on the 10mm this reduces the view even more.

 

5 minutes ago, Stu said:

I think once you’ve seen the Red Spot and know what to look for it is quite obvious. I’ve seen it in scopes down to 60mm though it is much easier in 100mm and above. I would think a 127mm Mak would show it quite clearly. Don’t over do the magnification, x150 to x180 is plenty in good conditions. Don’t forget that seeing conditions play a huge part in what you can see on any given night. Sometimes, if the jet stream is overhead Jupiter can look like it is under running water. At other times the clarity can be very good indeed.

Just incase you are uncertain, seeing and transparency are the two main sky quality measures. Seeing relates to the steadiness of the atmosphere and is often associated with hazy skies as they are still. These nights are great for bright planets and high mag viewing but less good for DSOs. Conversely conditions with very clear skies are often after a heavy rain shower which clears the air, or if high altitude winds are preventing any high haze from forming. These nights are great for faint deep sky objects but often not good for planets etc. you rarely get a very still and very transparent night together, so it’s worth choosing targets based on what the sky is doing.

Somewhere on the forum is a report from me with some descriptions and images of what I could actually see on Jupiter through a 4” frac. I’ll try to dig it out.

 

I will keep looking then!

How is transparency measured? Using some beacon objects as reference? Yesterday it was all so washed out by the Moon, that I don't even know what LP will allow me to see from the spot in no-Moon conditions. Seeing, if it's measured just by judging the turbulence, was quite good yesterday, I could see some shaking on Saturn with high magnification (200x), but it was very mild and it still allowed me to see plenty of detail.

I'd love to read your report of Jupiter!!

[John]

Light pollution, including a moonlit sky, tends to wash out deep sky objects such as nebulae and galaxies. They are simply not seen well with a bright moon in the sky and sometimes not visible at all.

Planets, double stars, open clusters and the moon itself of course, are good targets under moonlit conditions. I find the contrast of planetary features actually clearer and more obvious with some light in the sky. Some of my very best views of Jupiter have been just after sunset when there is plenty of light still in the sky.

One class of nebulae which does seem to be observable in a moonlit sky are planetary nebulae such as M57, M27 and a number of others such as the Cat's Eye (NGC 6543), the Blue Snowball (NGC 7662) and the Blinking Nebula (NGC 6826). 

 

 

[GordonD]

That's a lovely report, a pleasure to read - well done! You found and looked a great range of objects for a 1st night. They say your first view of Saturn is something you will always remember. Thanks for posting this.

[SwiMatt]

7 hours ago, GordonD said:

That's a lovely report, a pleasure to read - well done! You found and looked a great range of objects for a 1st night. They say your first view of Saturn is something you will always remember. Thanks for posting this.

Thanks! Lurking on here helped developing an idea of what to go for on an "unprepared" session. Looking forward for the next night out 😁

[josefk]

Great read and sounds like a super productive 1st light. Thanks for posting.