IMX410 Choice

[pmlogg]

My imaging is done with a large refractor at native f8 or at reduced f6.  I've been doing monochrome with filters (LRGB and narrowband) but I find it difficult to find time to do the processing required to make the best of the subs taken.  So, I'm considering moving to a colour camera combined  with a quad-band filter - which I already have, when necessary.

Although I know it's not a common choice, the IMX410 chip seems to have the pixel size and features that would suit me. My setup could also take advantage of the full-frame sensor.

I've had a look at what's out there and at prices.  The ZWO ASI2400MC-Pro has a UK price of £3690 but £2904 including UK VAT and shipping from AliExress.  The QHY410C has been discontinued and is around the same UK price if it can be found.  The Altair Hypercam AA24CFx is £2800.  Then there is the RisingCam (or ToupTek) SkyEye24C from AliExpress at £2235 (Wintop shop) or £2425 (RisingCam shop I think), both including UK VAT and shipping.  So a price range of around £1450

The front fittings of all of these seem to be the same and they also share very similar USB3, USB hub and power connections.

Ignoring the advantage of the ZWO compatibility with the ASI Air, which I don't plan to use, are there other compelling reasons to spend more on the ASI2400MC-Pro rather than the Hypercam or even the SkyEye24C?  I haven't yet tried the second-hand market for either the ZWO or the Hypercam.

[Peds]

I've also been looking into a camera with this sensor. It looks like you've rounded up all the suspects.

I suppose things to look out for include differences in backfocus between cameras (16.5mm for the hypercam, 12.5-17.5mm for the ASI2400MC, 17.5mm for the Risingcam), cooling performance, diameter of the camera housing (if you'd like to use an Octopi or ASG photon cage tilt adjustment system - these are built around the 90mm diameter camera body), and accessories. ZWO has a number of adapters, filter drawers, etc.

The risingcam price is really appealing... I do worry about support if it needs servicing. Note that it looks like the wintop version does not come with a few of the spacers and adapters that are included in the one from the risingcam shop.

 

[pmlogg]

Thanks for that.  It was the support and software compatibility I had most in mind but the accessories are another issue I hadn't considered.  Similarly, I'd not noted the backfocus differences but I think I could manage that with the adapters I have now.

The front plate of all the versions, except the QHY, seem to have the same hole pattern and 2.5mm size.  I have an M54 ZWO filter drawer that I would want to use with the camera.

[Marmo720]

On 22/08/2023 at 14:11, pmlogg said:

Thanks for that.  It was the support and software compatibility I had most in mind but the accessories are another issue I hadn't considered.  Similarly, I'd not noted the backfocus differences but I think I could manage that with the adapters I have now.

The front plate of all the versions, except the QHY, seem to have the same hole pattern and 2.5mm size.  I have an M54 ZWO filter drawer that I would want to use with the camera.

Did you end up going for one and if so, which? 

[pmlogg]

No, instead I'm trying to find a second hand ASI2400MC-Pro.  I've got an ad on Astrobuysell at the moment.

[Marmo720]

Yeah I did the same months ago but I don’t think the population of 2400mc owners is large enough and those that have it tend to hold on to them it seems. 
 

Also anyone selling it at 70% of new would probably be looking for £2400 ish I think. I am tempted with the £2900 ish price from Aliexpress that you mentioned earlier if that definitely covers taxes etc. Do you have a link for that as never ordered from Aliexpress before. 
 

Otherwise might order from ZWO directly and see what happens when it gets here  

[pmlogg]

Found two listings on Aliexpress (they are a collection of sellers shops):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001834884339.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.6883pBJTpBJTYG&algo_pvid=5b260a1d-0b9f-4961-9f3f-e398b769e7e3&algo_exp_id=5b260a1d-0b9f-4961-9f3f-e398b769e7e3-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis!GBP!2574.27!2574.27!!!3052.98!!%40211b61bb16968924019982123e53aa!12000017794737870!sea!UK!792347191!&curPageLogUid=JHcg1iEjidIQ

and

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005874202994.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.11.6883pBJTpBJTYG&algo_pvid=5b260a1d-0b9f-4961-9f3f-e398b769e7e3&algo_exp_id=5b260a1d-0b9f-4961-9f3f-e398b769e7e3-5&pdp_npi=4%40dis!GBP!2479.67!2479.67!!!21469.00!!%40211b61bb16968924019982123e53aa!12000034659017561!sea!UK!792347191!&curPageLogUid=aQqO4IlY3QQh

One would work out at £3089, the other at £2975.  They add the UK VAT at checkout.  I think both are free postage.  The prices change with the exchange rate which probably explains why £2975 rather than £2904.

 

[Marmo720]

Thanks - very tempted! 

[tomato]

I purchased a RisingCam IMX 571 via Aliexpress, I had to pay import duty on it when it got to the UK, about 5% of the purchase price.

[Marmo720]

2 hours ago, tomato said:

I purchased a RisingCam IMX 571 via Aliexpress, I had to pay import duty on it when it got to the UK, about 5% of the purchase price.

Is that total of all the fees? 5% to order the 2400/6200 from zwo direct would be a great price compared to cost here. 

[tomato]

There was another small fee that I thought I had to pay but when I tried to pay it to UPS they said it was below their processing threshold, and who was I to argue?

I can’t comment on ordering direct from ZWO except to say if it was such a good deal why doesn’t everybody do it?

[Marmo720]

Does Aliexpress pay some of the vat etc so you only had to pay a small 5% fee? Otherwise there wouldn’t be any difference between Aliexpress order and direct from ZWO I thought? 
 

Thanks for the help by the way! 

[Elp]

No, it charges full VAT at checkout like most websites shipping to UK do post Brexit.

Your total price importing should be:

1. Item cost (paid to vendor),

2. Item cost VAT at + 20pc (paid to vendor),

3. Shipping cost (paid to vendor unless the unlikely scenario you have the option to arrange courier yourself),

4. VAT on shipping at + 20pc (paid to vendor),

5. Import duty (paid to courier company or destination countries local parcel service upon item arrival into destination country, they then remit HMRC together with the VAT passed onto them previously by vendor), this rate is dependent on the export commodity code declared by the exporter of the goods on the invoice attached to the package, you can look up the commodity code on the gov website and find the percentage rate of duty. As a rough estimate add (1+3) and multiply it by the import duty percentage,

6. Some couriers may charge a small handling fee for managing the delivery and customs process (paid to courier upon import),

7. Currency conversion charge from your payment method issuer, may or may not apply, it's usually cheaper to pay in the host countries currency or what currency they're asking for (will be applied to your item payment transaction on your card account only (ie vendor doesn't receive it, it's an additional charge to you)).

 

When I've looked into it via ZWO, there's little to no saving. Other items I've sourced I've saved a lot. Many items the brand won't sell direct due to existing distribution agreements.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Elp

[Marmo720]

11 hours ago, Elp said:

No, it charges full VAT at checkout like most websites shipping to UK do post Brexit.

Your total price importing should be:

1. Item cost (paid to vendor),

2. Item cost VAT at + 20pc (paid to vendor),

3. Shipping cost (paid to vendor unless the unlikely scenario you have the option to arrange courier yourself),

4. VAT on shipping at + 20pc (paid to vendor),

5. Import duty (paid to courier company or destination countries local parcel service upon item arrival into destination country, they then remit HMRC together with the VAT passed onto them previously by vendor), this rate is dependent on the export commodity code declared by the exporter of the goods on the invoice attached to the package, you can look up the commodity code on the gov website and find the percentage rate of duty. As a rough estimate add (1+3) and multiply it by the import duty percentage,

6. Some couriers may charge a small handling fee for managing the delivery and customs process (paid to courier upon import),

7. Currency conversion charge from your payment method issuer, may or may not apply, it's usually cheaper to pay in the host countries currency or what currency they're asking for (will be applied to your item payment transaction on your card account only (ie vendor doesn't receive it, it's an additional charge to you)).

 

When I've looked into it via ZWO, there's little to no saving. Other items I've sourced I've saved a lot. Many items the brand won't sell direct due to existing distribution agreements.

Thank you - that is very helpful!