Powermate or 3mm Delite for Mars?

[Surfer Chris]

Was out with my FC76DCU night before last. The seeing forecast wasn't great, so I took the 76DCU grab & go setup out expecting a quick 10 min session. However, the views were actually great looking through my 4mm Delite eyepiece so I ended up staying out for over an hour. Jupiter showed much more detail than I am used to seeing, with a more vivid brown colouration to the belts than normal. Three belts and both polar regions clearly visible on Jupiter, and the planet had an almost 3D spherical look to it rather than just appearing as a flat white disk. Mars also looked great compared to what I have seen over the last several weeks. Great colours, albedo features visible, and I could just make out a white speck of a polar cap - something new to me. To top it all off, I even had my 8 year old daughter sat outside with me taking a keen interest for the entire hour despite the freezing conditions (that's her sat at the scope below).

After that session, I thought to myself that I could have possibly tried a little more magnification as the views were pretty steady and clear (and Mars was looking quite small).

Initially was thinking I should get a 2.5x (1.25") Powermate to use with my existing range of eyepieces. I was forgetting that there is actually a 3mm Delite available which I could add to my collection.

I think the 3mm Delite makes more sense, as I think I prefer the idea of not adding weight and stacking extra components out of the diagonal. But I am also wondering if there might be occasional instances where I will want even more magnification than provided by the 3mm Delite, in which case perhaps it makes more sense to use a Powermate with my existing range of eyepieces? Perhaps the Powermate is a better option for more flexibility?

Just wondering what other people would opt for? I can't really justify splashing out on both at the moment, but want to get some good views of Mars before it disappears for a while.

The 3mm Delite should give 190x magnification in the FC6DCU & 246x in the FC100DC. I am not sure if it is realistic to expect to be able to go much past those magnifications? As always, any feedback appreciated.

 

[Captain Scarlet]

I have a 3mm DeLite, it’s quite a tall eyepiece. I’d assume your 4mm DeLite is also on the tall side, as is the Powermate IIRC. Going for a “powermated” option on top of a 4mm will give you a very long stack out of the diagonal on a scope that’s on the small side.

Cheers, Magnus

[rl]

If you don't need the eye relief I'd look at a S/H Nagler zoom 3-6mm which might see a lot more use. I bought one off ABS and have not regretted it; they generally go for about £270 used. 

But the Delites do really live up to their name....

[Surfer Chris]

14 minutes ago, Captain Scarlet said:

I have a 3mm DeLite, it’s quite a tall eyepiece. I’d assume your 4mm DeLite is also on the tall side, as is the Powermate IIRC. Going for a “powermated” option on top of a 4mm will give you a very long stack out of the diagonal on a scope that’s on the small side.

Cheers, Magnus

Yes this is what I was thinking Magnus. Thanks.

[Surfer Chris]

7 minutes ago, rl said:

If you don't need the eye relief I'd look at a S/H Nagler zoom 3-6mm which might see a lot more use. I bought one off ABS and have not regretted it; they generally go for about £270 used. 

But the Delites do really live up to their name....

A 3-6mm zoom was another option I had also considered (always so many different options!). The 'new' price put me off a little though (at this moment in time at least). I do like the lightweight nature of the Delites I currently have (they go well with the 76DCU). Find them very comfortable to use. I think the 3-6mm zoom will be one I have to keep an eye out for on ABS. But I suspect Mars might be well gone before I see a second hand one appear.

[mikeDnight]

With your scopes, it is definitely realistic to use magnification beyond what's normally accepted as the limit, especially with Mars. Ive followed Mars down to at least 4.8 arc seconds with a FC100DC and still been able to see recognisable albedo features on its surface. Have you considered the Tak TOE's as an option? They are powerful, light weight, high definition and comfortable to use, and may have an edge on on-axis sharpness over your TV eyepieces at high power.

[Surfer Chris]

9 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

With your scopes, it is definitely realistic to use magnification beyond what's normally accepted as the limit, especially with Mars. Ive followed Mars down to at least 4.8 arc seconds with a FC100DC and still been able to see recognisable albedo features on its surface. Have you considered the Tak TOE's as an option? They are powerful, light weight, high definition and comfortable to use, and may have an edge on on-axis sharpness over your TV eyepieces at high power.

Funny you should mention a TOE. It was something that also just popped into my mind as yet another option shortly before pressing the button on a 3mm Delite. Thought I would grab a 3mm Delite whilst one was available and before Mars drifts too far away. Looks like I would have to wait a few weeks for a TOE. But now I am itching to try the TOE as well! I'd better work some more hours I guess!!!!

I will see how I get on with the 3mm Delite, then perhaps decide which TOE to try. FYI - I am using the Scopetech Alt-Az mount (manual tracking), so I thought the 62 Deg FOV in the Delite might offer slight advantage over the TOE? But I guess ultimately only one way to find out.

Do you currently use Takahashi TOE's?

[Don Pensack]

3mm Delite.

I had one, but floaters in my eye always interfered, even if the seeing was fantastic.

It yielded a 0.43mm exit pupil in my 102mm f/7 apo.

I now use a 3.7mm eyepiece as max power in that scope (0.53mm exit pupil), and it is marginal.

You will have to have very clear eye, internally, to use the 3mm except on double stars.

I also think the Delite's eye relief is more comfortable than the TOE's.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Don Pensack

[jock1958]

2 hours ago, rl said:

If you don't need the eye relief I'd look at a S/H Nagler zoom 3-6mm which might see a lot more use. I bought one off ABS and have not regretted it; they generally go for about £270 used. 

But the Delites do really live up to their name....

Plus one for the 3-6 NZ can't rate it highly enough, when I'm not bino-viewing I use it all the time in my Tak FC-100DL & FS-60. It's small, lightweight, brilliantly engineered and really easy to use while clicking up through the powers. Bought it a few years ago off a fellow SGL'er for about £225 I think? the only slight negatives are the 50 degree AFOV & 10mm eye relief. Why they stopped production of the 2-4 NZ I'll never know 🤔😩

 

[Don Pensack]

3 minutes ago, jock1958 said:

Plus one for the 3-6 NZ can't rate it highly enough, when I'm not bino-viewing I use it all the time in my Tak FC-100DL & FS-60. It's small, lightweight, brilliantly engineered and really easy to use while clicking up through the powers. Bought it a few years ago off a fellow SGL'er for about £225 I think? the only slight negatives are the 50 degree AFOV & 10mm eye relief. Why they stopped production of the 2-4 NZ I'll never know 🤔😩

 

Slow sales.  The minimum quantity they had to make took too many years to sell to make it worth stocking.

[jock1958]

7 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

Slow sales.  The minimum quantity they had to make took too many years to sell to make it worth stocking.

Shame that, I have seen them come up SH once or twice but always missed the boat as far as buying one goes!

[jock1958]

5 hours ago, Surfer Chris said:

Initially was thinking I should get a 2.5x (1.25") Powermate to use with my existing range of eyepieces. I was forgetting that there is actually a 3mm Delite available which I could add to my collection.

Another SH buy I haven't regretted. It's a bit longer and heavier than my Celestron & Baader Barlows but works so much better IMO.

There's loads of online reviews about them, Powermates v Barlows,  also they come up fairly regularly SH and might be a cheaper option than buying another eyepiece?

Edit: Just seen one on UK ABS 🤔

Edited January 27, 2023 by jock1958

[Highburymark]

The 3mm Delite is a fine eyepiece - you’ll love it. Nice 62 degree field and super comfortable, so you can remain relaxed over long sessions. As good as any Delos or XW.

On good nights, however, the TOEs will show quite a bit more detail. I wish I knew more about the optical design (six elements, so far from minimum glass), but they are supremely capable planetary eyepieces. So the 2.5mm would make an ideal, if indulgent, companion to your Delites.

[IB20]

I have the 76DCU; for Mars I originally used the 4mm TOE which gives ~143x with 0.53mm exit pupil. Mars can take more magnification than that and found that the 2.5mm TOE also held up; a mag of 228x and 0.33mm exit pupil. I don’t find the floaters that much more off putting from 0.5 to 0.3mm. The TOEs are wonderful eyepieces in the little Tak, so maybe the 3.3mm should be in the equation for you? They are sensational on the moon and the 4mm is the best EP I have ever owned.

I have since added the 1.7Q extender module to the 76DCU and I must say Mars was definitely a marginal improvement through it. Partly due to the increase in magnification that my EPs gave me. The 5mm and 4mm XW and TOEs are my go to EPs for Mars viewing at 190x and 228x respectively.

I did like my Delite and found it fantastic to look through. I didn’t like the locking mechanism and it didn’t reach focus with the 76DCU and Tak prism though so it got sold.