ZWO AM5 - Experience and lessons learnt

[Elp]

I was also wondering how you'd achieve declination balance safely without a locking mechanism, is it done by switching the mount on and off, adjust and repeat? Or is guiding unaffected by an unbalanced dec payload?

[david_taurus83]

2 hours ago, George Sinanis said:

 My heaviest rig till now is the Stellamira ED90 triplet, which weighs 7kg, if I remember well, with everything on it; my concern here though is not the weight but, the length. It is over 1.7m in length. Next time I get this ota in use, I will perform some tests and see how the mount behaves.

1.7 metres in length? Almost 6 foot? Surely not!

[AstroGS]

2 hours ago, david_taurus83 said:

1.7 metres in length? Almost 6 foot? Surely not!

It will be my dream to have a 1.7m ota…. You are right. I meant over 0.7m. 

[StevieDvd]

There's no balancing option on these mounts. I guess the idea is that the motors are not bothered by the weight as much as other types of mount.  A little noe in the AM5 manual mentions checking for stability so it should only be used by people with common sense 😄

A heavy refractor should be easier for it to handle (compared to a SCT f the same weight) as the weight is closer to the centre of balance.

The danger of the 0.7m refractor (and camera train etc) touching/crashing is dependent on whether the user checks for free movement or not. 

I'm happy with my current setup needing no counterweight, I can hold the mount fully loaded with scope/camera/guidescope/asiair in one hand - though of course use the other hand as well when carrying it to the pier or tripod.

But I do have an extension bar that fits and some small weights if I put a larger scope on, as I have this mental image of Scotty from Star Trek telling me you can't change the law of physics.

[Elp]

Just enquired as my C6 at 1000mm FL (f6.3 mode) is back heavy and I don't have any more dovetail to clamp to, so may be an issue with that configuration unless I devise some sort of CW solution to the front end.

[TerryD]

Thanks for the write up.  I just ordered an AM5 and your shared experience will hopefully help me out while getting started with this mount.

[AstroGS]

6 hours ago, TerryD said:

Thanks for the write up.  I just ordered an AM5 and your shared experience will hopefully help me out while getting started with this mount.

It is a great mount and probably one of the most versatile mounts in the market. Tracks well and holds a fair amount of weight. 

[AstroGS]

The weather decided after almost 7 weeks straight with clouds, to do us a favour and offer us a few evenings with clear skies.

It does seem that the mount is delivering much better results now - it probably needed some period of breaking in - but, managed to get some very solid guiding over 2 nights this week. I used the 90mm triplet with the 2600MC (approx. 7 kg payload) to do some galaxy imaging. The only difference compared to the previous setup is that I replaced the guidescope with a ZWO OAG + the ASI290mm mini and it seems that is perfect.

 

Both days the mount tracked between 0.4 and 0.6, with some lows as 0.33 (!!) for an hour or so. Here are some screenshots of those sessions.

 

 

[AstroGS]

Finally got a clear night last evening and went for the M106 that was pretty much at the zenith during the whole session. 
 

300 sec subs, seeing was good but, there was some wind that had some effect on the guiding and I had to increase Dec/RA aggression. 
 

Overall guiding was around 0.5” - 0.6”, which I consider very good. Overall rig weight around 7kg. 

[AstroGS]

Another great session last night with the Redcat51, fully loaded on the AM5 - actually it might have been the best so far on guiding, with permanently guiding between 0.3” and 0.4”. The mount is definitely performing better now but, I’m not sure if something changed during latest updates (mount/Asiair) or it just needed some time to settle down.

 

Sharing with you some screenshots of the settings for the evening, in case it helps.

[AstroGS]

And it is getting better by the time…..now driving a Redcat61 and full narrowband imaging rig.

Looking forward to see if ZWO will eventually launch an “AM7” with larger payload capacity. Otherwise I will definitely get a 2nd AM5 for my 2nd rig.

 

 

[david_taurus83]

I usually see mine running at around 0.4 RMS as well. Has anybody used their AM5 with EQMod and PHD2 to see if the figures tally up? I've long held the belief that the ASIAir gives optimistic guide graphs.

[JCIdaho]

On 15/01/2023 at 22:29, AstroGS said:

Hi Gordon,

It is the opposite I am afraid - I did widen the BB Planet's adaptor circumference by almost 1mm. I did not want to alter the PE200 as I will be using it with other tripods when I am in the field.

 

Excuse me - how did you widen the adaptor by 1mm? Filing?

[AstroGS]

12 minutes ago, JCIdaho said:

 

Excuse me - how did you widen the adaptor by 1mm? Filing?

It was with a metal grinder - it took forever but, job was done at the end.

[Celerondon]

12 hours ago, JCIdaho said:

 

Excuse me - how did you widen the adaptor by 1mm? Filing?

 

11 hours ago, AstroGS said:

It was with a metal grinder - it took forever but, job was done at the end.

Grinding is an option if you only need to remove a small amount of material but there is another way.  My Planet had a basic head with a flat profile so I decided to purchase the Berlebach head that was designed for the AM5.  The Berlebach website has a menu system tha that allows customers to select heads, adapters, and other accessories for their various tripod lines.  Now the PE200 seats firmly on my Planet and I am tempted to use this spare tripod head casting as the basis for a first-rate DIY tripod.

Don 

 

Edited February 28 by Celerondon

[AstroGS]

On 15/10/2023 at 10:15, david_taurus83 said:

I usually see mine running at around 0.4 RMS as well. Has anybody used their AM5 with EQMod and PHD2 to see if the figures tally up? I've long held the belief that the ASIAir gives optimistic guide graphs.

@david_taurus83 I just started using NINA/PHD2  and the results are pretty consistent as well. For a reason I feel that it performs better now (round stars end-to-end) than previously although the figures say the opposite! Here are some recent screenshots from PHD2. Also, I am using shorter exp times (1 sec) vs the 2 secs that I had with the ASIAir Plus. However, I would say that on an average is around 0.7-1 consistently and ham getting round stars to edge even at 600sec exposures.

Edited February 27 by AstroGS

[AstroGS]

AM5 now sits at a permanent observatory in Spain, carrying a WO Redcat61 with a mono setup, managing the imaging sessions via NINA and PHD2. I can say that it continues to impress me and having great guiding performance. I was concerned if this mount would be able to hold PA for a long period of time but, my concerns were unwarranted 

Here is an imaging session of the cone nebula, while shooting with a Ha filter @ 600 sec.

 

Edited March 1 by AstroGS

[david_taurus83]

On 27/02/2024 at 22:51, AstroGS said:

@david_taurus83 I just started using NINA/PHD2  and the results are pretty consistent as well. For a reason I feel that it performs better now (round stars end-to-end) than previously although the figures say the opposite! Here are some recent screenshots from PHD2. Also, I am using shorter exp times (1 sec) vs the 2 secs that I had with the ASIAir Plus. However, I would say that on an average is around 0.7-1 consistently and ham getting round stars to edge even at 600sec exposures.

I did actually get round to doing a comparison of the AM5 guided by PHD2. As I suspected, the PHD results were more reasonable with an average guide rate of 0.8". The point of my thread was not to cast a shadow on the AM5 and its abilities, its a great mount and if I didn't have an AZEQ6 on my pier, I would have probably kept the AM5 as my main mount. I was trying to see if my long held suspicions about ASIAirs guiding graph figures were a bit on the generous side. Which they are!

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/415062-asiair-am5-guiding-results/

[AstroGS]

2 hours ago, david_taurus83 said:

I did actually get round to doing a comparison of the AM5 guided by PHD2. As I suspected, the PHD results were more reasonable with an average guide rate of 0.8". The point of my thread was not to cast a shadow on the AM5 and its abilities, its a great mount and if I didn't have an AZEQ6 on my pier, I would have probably kept the AM5 as my main mount. I was trying to see if my long held suspicions about ASIAirs guiding graph figures were a bit on the generous side. Which they are!

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/415062-asiair-am5-guiding-results/

I had the chance to do a simple (by-the-eye) comparison of a few subs, from when I was using Asiair, with "excellent" guiding of 0.3-0.4" vs the "best guiding" I got so far through PHD2 and I can confirm that the 600 sec subs with PHD2 seem to be perfect with round stars end2end, while the ones through Asiair seem to not have the consistent look. I know that this is not a scientific experiment but, I'm really happy with the results when guiding via NINA.

[JCIdaho]

I bought a counterweight for the AM5 and it has made a difference. I've been tracking tonight a between.4 to .6 arc secs. Much better than had before, around 1 arc sec.

[AstroGS]

Over a year now and the mount continues to hold very well - even as a permanent observatory mount.

Imaging tonight M53 with the Redcat 61 and guiding is very stable at 0.5-0.6. I will be adding a 2nd rig on the mount (Samyang + ASI2600MC) soon and I am experimenting with the counter-weight and indeed, it seems to be delivering a more persistent solid guiding numbers.

 

Very pleased indeed.