Fungus/mold in flatner

[Rodd]

I have a 67 Flatner (Takahashi) that has a 90 mm image circle capability and there is white thread like fungus/mold--something like while tendrils growing between elements right at teh edge of the lense in one spot.  Tak America said that to have it cleaned would require a trip to Japan.  So thats out.  The good thing is I don't think there is a sensor made (for amateurs) that would come close to the edge of the lens.  However--if it continues to grow, it will obviously eventually ruin the flatner.  Does anyone know how to kill it?  I have thought about leaving it in bright sunlight for a few days and maybe using additional UV light.  I also watched a video that suggested wrapping penneys (for the copper) in a towel and heating the towel and a couple additional rags in the drier and putting them in a plastic bag with the flatner.  The heated rags will suck moisture out of the flatner, and copper is a natural fungicide.  If I can kill it so it stops spreading, I will be able to use the flatner forever.

Wanted to sell it, but that is not possible now.  It still works great so keeping it is not terrible--but I need to kill the monster while it is still small and at teh edge.

Any ideas/thoughts?

Rodd

[StarryEyed]

UV will kill it but you need a powerful source which the sun is so putting it in you telescope on a sunny day will also do what a telescope does best and concentrate the UV. I had some on a diagonal and a scope lens some years back and since I started storing everything with decadent packets and lots of them the problem has never repeated. They are cheap and you can never use enough. I put them in everything telescope related. Its a small price to pay. Forget about the pennies it might work and makes sence or just unclude them in the mix if you like. 

[BillBwithley]

This may be of interest, but I have just had the lens of a 2005 FS102 cleaned by Takahashi Europe ( France) to remove fungus.  The scope was sent to France by FLO and they did an excellent job. If  Takahashi Europe can dismantle, clean and reassemble a lens , maybe they can clean your flatterer. You could ask Ian at FLO.

Sorry, I just realised you are in US.

Bill

Edited April 8, 2022 by BillBwithley

[Rodd]

7 hours ago, BillBwithley said:

This may be of interest, but I have just had the lens of a 2005 FS102 cleaned by Takahashi Europe ( France) to remove fungus.  The scope was sent to France by FLO and they did an excellent job. If  Takahashi Europe can dismantle, clean and reassemble a lens , maybe they can clean your flatterer. You could ask Ian at FLO.

Sorry, I just realised you are in US.

Bill

Tak America can’t take a flatbed apart.      Sending to Europe would be about like sending to japan

[Rodd]

7 hours ago, StarryEyed said:

UV will kill it but you need a powerful source which the sun is so putting it in you telescope on a sunny day will also do what a telescope does best and concentrate the UV. I had some on a diagonal and a scope lens some years back and since I started storing everything with decadent packets and lots of them the problem has never repeated. They are cheap and you can never use enough. I put them in everything telescope related. Its a small price to pay. Forget about the pennies it might work and makes sence or just unclude them in the mix if you like. 

The TOA is not on the scope.  I was thinking about leaving the flatner in the sun. Maybe use a magnifying glass  to kill it. 

[StarryEyed]

That will kill it for sure! maybe overkill, might be a lot of energy in a small area. But getting the whole scope out in the sun is a good idea and will treat all the glass and surfaces distribute the energy evenly and in any case a bit if solar projection makes it bit if fun as well. On a nice sunny day doesnt even need to be a warm one I also give my refractor a nice clean down with a soft cloth and all that. 

Since I had that problem care and maintenance has become part of the enjoyment of getting the scope out on a sunny day and making sure I am looking after it. Its prevention but also good fun. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by StarryEyed

[skybadger]

Take it apart, mark the edges for assembly order and orientation and the use a mixture of deionised water, a few drops of lemon juice, a few drops of vinegar and a drop of washing up liquid to gently wash the mould off. If works a treat. Follow with a wash in alcohol and reassemble. 

[Astroscot2]

A UVC light will kill the fungus in the meantime, depending on how long the fungus has been there itay have already etched the coatings?

[Rodd]

5 hours ago, StarryEyed said:

That will kill it for sure! maybe overkill, might be a lot of energy in a small area. But getting the whole scope out in the sun is a good idea and will treat all the glass and surfaces distribute the energy evenly and in any case a bit if solar projection makes it bit if fun as well. On a nice sunny day doesnt even need to be a warm one I also give my refractor a nice clean down with a soft cloth and all that. 

Since I had that problem care and maintenance has become part of the enjoyment of getting the scope out on a sunny day and making sure I am looking after it. Its prevention but also good fun. 

The scope was just cleaned at tak America. It is ok.  It’s just the flatner

[Rodd]

5 hours ago, skybadger said:

Take it apart, mark the edges for assembly order and orientation and the use a mixture of deionised water, a few drops of lemon juice, a few drops of vinegar and a drop of washing up liquid to gently wash the mould off. If works a treat. Follow with a wash in alcohol and reassemble. 

If Tak America says they can’t take it apart, I certainly would not attempt it.  Besides, wouldn’t even know how to do it. It does not thread apart. It’s solid (and expensive). It would be foolish

[Rodd]

1 hour ago, Astroscot2 said:

A UVC light will kill the fungus in the meantime, depending on how long the fungus has been there itay have already etched the coatings?

I don’t think so. It’s not very dense. Besides, it’s way on the edge of a 90mm (maybe 88 mm) image circle.  No way my sensor, or even a medium frame sensor would reach (and those add big sensors).  It just sucks that I can’t sell it now. I want the new 645 flatner and selling this would just about pay for it

[Carbon Brush]

As the damage is only at the edge, I would look at just preventing further growth/damage.

If you don't want to dismantle, then UV light, the shorter wavelength the better, will kill the fungus.
Unless you heat to extreme temperature,it is the short wavelength that does a good job of killing.
Think about you sitting under an infra red heat lamp. Unless there is enough heat to cook you, no harm is done.
Now spend a few minutes inside a tanning cubicle. A warm and tolerable place, but you come out with damaged skin!

Having killed the fungus, keep the device stored in a container with dessicant to discourage any new spores that may want to feed on the leftovers.
The same storage regime many people use for eyepieces, camera lenses, etc.

Good luck with however you fix the problem.

[Rodd]

6 minutes ago, Carbon Brush said:

As the damage is only at the edge, I would look at just preventing further growth/damage.

If you don't want to dismantle, then UV light, the shorter wavelength the better, will kill the fungus.
Unless you heat to extreme temperature,it is the short wavelength that does a good job of killing.
Think about you sitting under an infra red heat lamp. Unless there is enough heat to cook you, no harm is done.
Now spend a few minutes inside a tanning cubicle. A warm and tolerable place, but you come out with damaged skin!

Having killed the fungus, keep the device stored in a container with dessicant to discourage any new spores that may want to feed on the leftovers.
The same storage regime many people use for eyepieces, camera lenses, etc.

Good luck with however you fix the problem.

yeah--that's about how I see it.  To bad I don't have a vacuum chamber.  I think vacuum would kill the fungus

[Louis D]

22 hours ago, Rodd said:

yeah--that's about how I see it.  To bad I don't have a vacuum chamber.  I think vacuum would kill the fungus

I think it might just go into a state of suspended animation like a tardigrade does.

[Rodd]

On 10/04/2022 at 08:56, Louis D said:

I think it might just go into a state of suspended animation like a tardigrade does.

Can these thing live in space? (assuming no radiation).  Anyway--i have it under a UV grow lamp.  Will leave it there for days.  Hopefully that does it.  I will get teh new flatner at some point (supposed to be better--but doesnt have as wide an image circle--still more than I need though

[ollypenrice]

On 09/04/2022 at 00:47, StarryEyed said:

UV will kill it but you need a powerful source which the sun is so putting it in you telescope on a sunny day will also do what a telescope does best and concentrate the UV. I had some on a diagonal and a scope lens some years back and since I started storing everything with decadent packets and lots of them the problem has never repeated. They are cheap and you can never use enough. I put them in everything telescope related. Its a small price to pay. Forget about the pennies it might work and makes sence or just unclude them in the mix if you like. 

Careful: some lenses (notably oil-spaced ones) don't like to be put in the sunlight and I seem to think that the same is true of Petzvals, of which Rodd's Tak is an example. I can't remember where I came across this information but since I have an oil-spaced triplet and a Tak Petzval I made a mental note of it. Rodd, check before you try it!

Olly

[Rodd]

5 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Careful: some lenses (notably oil-spaced ones) don't like to be put in the sunlight and I seem to think that the same is true of Petzvals, of which Rodd's Tak is an example. I can't remember where I came across this information but since I have an oil-spaced triplet and a Tak Petzval I made a mental note of it. Rodd, check before you try it!

Olly

Good thinking Olly--the TAK in question is the  TOA-130, which is just a triplet (air spaced).  But I am not equipped at all for solar, so I won't ne putting the scope in the sun--I don't think it would do much unless I pointed AT the sun.  Fortunately its only the flatner.  The scope is still nestled safely in its box after being cleaned and tuned by TAK America (I am all thumbs when it comes time to clean the darn things).  I have been trying to shoot longer focal length targets for a change--but the weather has really been atrocious.  1 night a month is pretty lean--and if its one "good" night, then its more like 1 night/quarter.  

Rodd

[StarryEyed]

 

20 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Careful: some lenses (notably oil-spaced ones) don't like to be put in the sunlight and I seem to think that the same is true of Petzvals, of which Rodd's Tak is an example. I can't remember where I came across this information but since I have an oil-spaced triplet and a Tak Petzval I made a mental note of it. Rodd, check before you try it!

Olly

That is true and it gets mentioned on solar herchel wedge instructions.