First go with a webcam

[BlueAstra]

Well, I thought I'd try out a cheap webcam to see if its practical before spending real money. I modified a cheap (£9.99) logitech E5400 by taking the lens out gluing an old film tube on the end. Used a trial of K3CCDTools3 to stack 65 images (5s @15fps), without really knowing what I was doing (more manual reading required!). Here is my first attempt at Saturn with a x3 barlow.

Focus is very difficult. Some questions:

Is it worth upgrading to the Philips SPC900 - same number of pixels, or going with a higher resolution cam?

I found K3CCDTools3 fairly easy to use with its preview ability, ccd control and processing. The software with the webcam only produces *.wmv files. Can these be converted to *.avi ?

Should I be using alternative software like Registax ? But then I would need a prog to get avi files from the cam.

Thanks for any advice.

[beamer3.6m]

Thats a cracking first image. Good image size and focus is not bad.

I would use 10 frames per second and film the planet for around 3 minutes so you have 1800 images.

K3CCDTools is the weapon of choice so I would stick with that.

When you have finished however load the AVI into Registax and then stack all the individual frames. You should end up with more detail on the planet itself.

Good luck.

I would use either a Toucam Pro II or the SPC900nc as they are decent quality webcams ideal for asto work.

[beamish]

It's a great start !

[dweller25]

That would be an excellent first attempt with much more expensive gear.

Well done.

[BlueAstra]

Thats a cracking first image. Good image size and focus is not bad.

I would use 10 frames per second and film the planet for around 3 minutes so you have 1800 images.

K3CCDTools is the weapon of choice so I would stick with that.

When you have finished however load the AVI into Registax and then stack all the individual frames. You should end up with more detail on the planet itself.

Good luck.

I would use either a Toucam Pro II or the SPC900nc as they are decent quality webcams ideal for asto work.

Sorry to show my ignorance (last resort look at the manual!), does K3CCDTools not perform the same stacking function as Registax?

[beamish]

It does perform a stacking function but to be frank, Registax has always been regarded by most as better, it's free too.

[Cloudwatcher]

With the background darkened that is pretty much the eyepiece view I was getting last night trough the SkyMax 127.

Nice one.

[BlueAstra]

Thanks for the replies. I feel encouraged to do more now. Should I expect to see cloud bands on Saturn with my setup (assuming I set it up correctly)?

[BlueAstra]

With the background darkened that is pretty much the eyepiece view I was getting last night trough the SkyMax 127.

Nice one.

I see you have a Neximage. I was thinking of upgrading from my duck-taped and aradited Trust 5400 to something better. Would you recommend it?

[Cloudwatcher]

To be honest I use a DSLR nowadays.....a lot easier..... no computer and no wires to trip over. I found the Neximage OK but the resolution doesn't compare with the DSLR and it seemed to give a green cast to images.

[BlueAstra]

Not sure if my kit will take a DSLR. I need a x2 or x3 barlow to get a decent image size with my Newtonian. Does the barlow put the image plane far enough out to focus on the CCD of an DSLR? Can you take an avi file with a DSLR to produce the large number of frames required for processing? It could be quite a weight hanging of the side of the tube!

[Cloudwatcher]

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the weight and focuser limitations of the SkyHawk AZ GoTo system so cannot really answer your queries. I do recall that on some Sky-Watcher Newtonians there used to be a problem with the inward focus limit but there are sure to be other members with the same kit who will be able to clarify the position.

With regard to the NextImage,it is only really suitable for Solar System work but if you would like to give it a try you can borrow mine. Just PM me with your name and address and I'll pop it in the post for you.

[BlueAstra]

Thank you very much for your kind offer of a loan of the Neximage camera. I will PM my details. Do you think my system has sufficient resolving power to see Saturn's bands or ring division, etc, assuming correct focus, no vibration, etc?

[Cloudwatcher]

The NexImage is on it's way to you at the address supplied in your PM. Lets hope the weather is kind and you get a chance to use it!

I trashed most of my early images late last year when I got my new Mac but I have found an image of Saturn taken a couple of years ago with the NexImage which I will attach to give an idea of the kind of result obtained. Of course,I'm an observer rather than an imager so don't be put off! (Does it look greenish on your screen?) All I can remember is that this was taken with a SW 102 Startravel and I would have thought your scope will produce similar if not better results.

[Cloudwatcher]

Glad to hear you got the camera........... meant to say in last post.......... Don't forget to post an image when you have had a chance to use it.

[BlueAstra]

Went out last night with NexImage for a first go. Tried Saturn with the auto settings, but just got an overexposed blob. Played around with the frame rate & exposure to finally get the attached photo, after a bit of Regi proc (240 frames, 15fps, x3 Barlow = 1500mm f, F/13, ~0.138 mm image height). Still doesn't look in focus, and no real structure, a long way to get your quality. Saturn looks in good focus when you use an eyepiece (x150), so I will have to work on focus with the camera and examine the settings more closely.

Tried the moon afterwards for some light relief. Not the right forum section, but its part of the thread! Clavius crater. Again x3 Barlow with Regi proc. Will keep trying!

[BlueAstra]

The NexImage is on it's way to you at the address supplied in your PM. Lets hope the weather is kind and you get a chance to use it!

I trashed most of my early images late last year when I got my new Mac but I have found an image of Saturn taken a couple of years ago with the NexImage which I will attach to give an idea of the kind of result obtained. Of course,I'm an observer rather than an imager so don't be put off! (Does it look greenish on your screen?) All I can remember is that this was taken with a SW 102 Startravel and I would have thought your scope will produce similar if not better results.

I think the greenish tinge may be due to white balance being set to indoor or auto. When I turned it to outdoor the image went from whitish to its more usual yellowish colour.

[Tim]

Only just read this thread. Great progress there. I have a Neximage, and its easy to modify to get it to capture RAW data, rather than compressing it, just see the Celestron site for the link.

Focus on planets I find to be horribly difficult, I think if I go back to doing any planetary now I will use a bahtinov mask to focus on a neaby star, then grab the planet.

I prefer K3 over Registax. Its simpler, cleaner interface, and ability to handle large files without crashing (like registax 4 did, havent tried v5 yet) made it well worth the cost for me. The only exception would be for lunar, the multi-point selection for matching in registax gets a better result I think on targets with contrasty detail.

Keep up the good work anyways!

TJ

[jgs001]

You're doing superbly well with that webcam, the first go is excellent.

[PaulG]

Your first go with a £9.99 web cam is amazing

Paul

[Cloudwatcher]

My word BA you where quick off the mark! Excellent results aswell....lots of good detail in the Moon images.........Camera seems to work well with your scope.

[BlueAstra]

Thanks for the comments. Your SW102 Startravel and my SW 114 SkyHawk seem to have similar optical specs, so I should be able to get a better focus on Saturn. Unless the image quality of the refracter is better than the reflector.

I was interested by your comments on using a DSLR rather than the neximage. They both have similar pixel sizes so limiting resolution should be similar. The neximage is CCD and the Canon is CMOS so is the neximage more sensitive? The Canon CMOS array is much bigger so I guess it covers a much wider field.

What technique do you use with the DLSR? With the Neximage you take an avi and avarage the frames. But each frame is fairly short exposure ~<=1s. Do you take a series of individual frames with the DLSR? How do you focus, is the camera LCD sufficient?

Thanks for any replies. Its difficult to know which way to go with imaging!

[Cloudwatcher]

I don't find focusing the Canon DSLR too difficult just using the viewfinder or the live view screen. With the latter you have the facility to increase the magnification by x5 or x10 but you do have to increase the exposure to see dimish objects on screen then reset when you are happy with the focus. Alternatively if you are used to using a screen to focus the video output port can be connected to a TV or laptop that has the usual video import connection (the yellow one) available.

TJ's idea of focusing on a nearby star and then moving on to the planet is also a helpful routine.