GEM45 auto guiding with Asiair

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, Newforestgimp said:

I wonder if your issue is actually the same as reported by myself and others, you’ve just had an added confusion that AAP does connect initially but that connection isn’t sufficient to maintain reliable control. Try a hub and see if that cures the random mount behaviour 😉

Yes, it could be the same issue.  I’ll try a few of those things and see what happens. 

[The Admiral]

46 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

If I’d read that last week I would not have placed my order for this mount.

Well don't be too downhearted. Try the hub solution, as recommended by ZWO, that would be an easy fix. And the mount is good.

I admit I have only tested mine using the slew pad, the real test will be GOTOs I think. That will have to wait for a clear night. I may be lucky with an early mount, fingers crossed.

Ian

 

 

[Ouroboros]

Well, I have tried a number of things this afternoon.  Make of them what you will. 

With the AAP USB 2.0 socket connected directly to the mount’s USB 2.0 socket:  

Did not work. 

With the AAP’s USB3.0 socket connected directly to the mount’s USB2.0 socket: 

This worked for the following features tested:

Slewing the mount manually in the AAP app. 

Slewing to a specified target. 

Sending the mount to the home position. Weight down, telescope pointing at Polaris. 

Slewing again after sending to home position. 

Slewing  the scope to target, closing app, disconnecting from AAP hotspot, then reconnecting and restarting app. All working OK after reconnecting. 

Using an additional USB3.0 hub between the AAP and the mount:

This worked in all the tests above regardless of whether the USB2.0 or USB3.0 outputs of the AAP were used and whether or not the USB hub was powered or not. 

What I have not been able to test is any cameras (because they’re elsewhere) or polar alignment, guiding etc. 

[The Admiral]

Well that looks like progress indeed and promising. I hope you are happier now! Were you powering the mount and AAP separately?

2 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Slewing to a specified target.

Can I ask, how do you test that? If you haven't already plate solved an image, how does the system know where to point?

If it starts by using the home position, I presume that will have been set using the handset? Or is it the park position?

Ian

Edited October 28, 2021 by The Admiral

[Newforestgimp]

1 hour ago, Ouroboros said:

Well, I have tried a number of things this afternoon.  Make of them what you will. 

With the AAP USB 2.0 socket connected directly to the mount’s USB 2.0 socket:  

Did not work. 

With the AAP’s USB3.0 socket connected directly to the mount’s USB2.0 socket: 

This worked for the following features tested:

Slewing the mount manually in the AAP app. 

Slewing to a specified target. 

Sending the mount to the home position. Weight down, telescope pointing at Polaris. 

Slewing again after sending to home position. 

Slewing  the scope to target, closing app, disconnecting from AAP hotspot, then reconnecting and restarting app. All working OK after reconnecting. 

Using an additional USB3.0 hub between the AAP and the mount:

This worked in all the tests above regardless of whether the USB2.0 or USB3.0 outputs of the AAP were used and whether or not the USB hub was powered or not. 

What I have not been able to test is any cameras (because they’re elsewhere) or polar alignment, guiding etc. 

I’m going to have to try again now using the USB 3 port on AAP, 😂 I probably did test it but no harm in trying again.

I assume you connected to the usb on the RA and not one on the saddle ?

[Ouroboros]

15 minutes ago, Newforestgimp said:

I’m going to have to try again now using the USB 3 port on AAP, 😂 I probably did test it but no harm in trying again.

I assume you connected to the usb on the RA and not one on the saddle ?

Yeah, that might be a workable solution. It’s not for me because both USB 3.0 sockets will be occupied in my set up - one for the camera and the other for the memory stick. Unless I transfer data another way I suppose. 

The intriguing thing is why does USB 3 work and USB 2 doesn’t? Both provide 5V but 3 provides 150ma I believe and 2 only 100. Maybe significant? 

[Ouroboros]

58 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

Well that looks like progress indeed and promising. I hope you are happier now! Were you powering the mount and AAP separately?

Can I ask, how do you test that? If you haven't already plate solved an image, how does the system know where to point?

If it starts by using the home position, I presume that will have been set using the handset?

Ian

Progress. I suppose it is. I am more than disappointed that such is necessary.  I sometimes think we’re much too accepting as a community of having to implement workarounds for expensive but sometimes less than satisfactory equipment.   There’s obviously something wrong here. Whether it’s in the GEM45 or ASIair I don’t know.  People seem to think it’s the mount. What worries me is that there are other issues that I haven’t yet come across, and won’t until I get a chance to test everything outside under the stars. 

Anyway, yes I am now powering the ASI and mount separately. I don’t think it made any difference. But then there are no other devices in the system drawing power. 

And yes, when I say slewed to target this is just a “living room” bench test. I set up the zero position with the hand set and then slewed to Saturn or wherever. The mount looks as though it points  in roughly the right place. Proper tests will have wait. 

[The Admiral]

57 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Progress. I suppose it is.

Well if all it takes is to swap a lead over from one socket to another, or use a hub, to completely solve the problem, I'd call that a result.

57 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Anyway, yes I am now powering the ASI and mount separately. I don’t think it made any difference. But then there are no other devices in the system drawing power. 

If the AAP is using the same power supply as the mount, I can imagine that voltage transients caused by the mount starting to drive could, conceivably, affect the function of the AAP.

May be I have too much faith, but if the mount communications are sorted I don't see why the rest of the functions shouldn't be OK.

Ian

[The Admiral]

13 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

both USB 3.0 sockets will be occupied in my set up - one for the camera and the other for the memory stick.

That begs another off-topic question, if I may? I was wondering how necessary it is to put the memory stick into the USB 3 socket, why not use a USB 2? Obviously it would be connected with file size and length of sub, but if subs are over, say, 30s long, would it matter? I could see that for planetary/lunar imaging when you are firing off frames in quick succession, there could be a bottleneck with USB2. I've got no feel for this, so any comment from experienced users would be useful.

Ian

[Ouroboros]

@The Admiral Good question. I can’t even look at my other full kit consisting of an ADIair PRO and supplied 64GB Sandisk memory stick because it’s not here. I know I put the stick in the USB 3.0 socket, with my camera in the other, because I have photos of the set up. What I can’t recall is whether the memory stick is a USB 2.0 or 3.0. If it’s a 2.0 it doesn’t matter. It could just as well go in the USB 2.0 socket. The files from newer full-frame cameras are big so it wouldn’t surprise me if USB3.0 is necessary.

[Newforestgimp]

Not to complicate things further but I do not use memory stick during capture sessions. I store on the DSLR and AAP, then use either camera memory card or stick to transfer images to laptop, of course this approach will have to change if/when I switch to dedicated Astro camera.

[Ouroboros]

Just to see what happens I decide to download the iPolar app for Mac to see what happens when I connect my MacBook to the mount. This too requires a hub between the mount and the Mac for the app to connect to the camera. 

[Ouroboros]

Similarly when I set up KStars/Indi/EKOS running on my MacBook to connect to and control the GEM45 over USB cable, a hub was required. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Ouroboros

[johnpd]

I am a little late to this discussion. I thought I would mention what I ran into when connecting an ASIAIR Pro to a new CEM40 mount in case someone is still having this issue. The mount would not initially connect to the ASIAIR Pro I had. I tried a small "unpowered" USB 2.0 hub between the cable connected to the ASIAIR USB 2.0 port and the CEM40 USB 2.0 port, and then the two communicated. The CEM40 and GEM45 have the same selection in the ASIAIR mount list. There are actually two selections, and "old" and a "New 2021". I chose the new one.

JohnD