Editing PC

[Simon Dunsmore]

Hi Folks,

I could do with drawing on the corporate brain.

Operating on a very tight budget, I'm in need of a desktop set up for editing. Not being overly savy with computers and only having £200 to spend. I've found a deal for a reconditioned set up. 4th gen i7 processor, 16gb ram, 1Terabite ssd. Would this work? I'll be using Startools.

Thanks for the help 

Simon

[Jamgood]

Very similar to what I use for my imaging/processing. (Also doubles as my recording studio)

I have the Dell Opti10,  i7, Desktop. Cost next to nothing, fast and reliable. I have 32Gb RAM though which I needed for recording. 

No hiccups with any astro apps here.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Jamgood

[Simon Dunsmore]

9 minutes ago, Jamgood said:

Very similar to what I use for my imaging/processing. (Also doubles as my recording studio)

I have the Dell Opti10,  i7, Desktop. Cost next to nothing, fast and reliable. I have 32Gb RAM though which I needed for recording. 

No hiccups with any astro apps here.

Thanks Jamgood. What software are you running?

[mackiedlm]

I recently got a refurbished machine for processing. It's an i5, 32gb ram and 1TB SSD, so similar to the one you show very slightly more expensive. I find it handles my 50mb images (ASI 2600MC) very well. It blinks 200 images in PI with no jitter and calibrates and integrates those 200 in a time that for me is acceptable - less than 1 hour. All of that was beyond my older machine which would sulk for days if I asked to so any of that😁

However, I still find it is as! slow as a wet week end with Startools. That was always my main issue with startools and really why I gave up on it, it would take an age to do any of the post processes where APP or PI would do them more quickly. If you could stretch it you may be better going up to 32gb ram. But if you check what the max ram is on the machine you could always hold off and add it later.

Good luck and do report back.

Edited September 20, 2021 by mackiedlm

[Jamgood]

2 hours ago, Simon Dunsmore said:

Thanks Jamgood. What software are you running?

I started out with BackyardEOS and DSS. Now I run APT, PHD2. Astro Pixel Processor, Startnet++ and Photoshop.

Never used Startools but I doubt that this machine couldn't handle it. It can record 24 live tracks as a studio PC and copes with 100+ tracks with multiple plug ins. (If you don't know about recording, you can easily run out of RAM and processing power on lesser mahines)

[jager945]

Some sort of discrete graphics card would help immensely with StarTools (as it is fully GPU accelerated as of 1.7). The problem with Small Form Factor machines, is that you can only fit the more expensive low profile cards. See if you can find a machine that fits a full-sized card, and will at least lets you upgrade later on. SFF machines also tend to have smaller/custom power supplies that limit the sort of GPU you can put in there later on. Just something to keep in mind!

[bottletopburly]

20 hours ago, mackiedlm said:

However, I still find it is as! slow as a wet week end with Startools.

I run Startools on the gpu version and it’s blisteringly fast on my lads old gaming pc .

[Simon Dunsmore]

4 hours ago, bottletopburly said:

I run Startools on the gpu version and it’s blisteringly fast on my lads old gaming pc .

Thanks for the reply. Not being very IT saved, some of these terms are little confusing but I'm sure I'll work it out!

On 20/09/2021 at 20:28, Jamgood said:

Very similar to what I use for my imaging/processing. (Also doubles as my recording studio)

I have the Dell Opti10,  i7, Desktop. Cost next to nothing, fast and reliable. I have 32Gb RAM though which I needed for recording. 

No hiccups with any astro apps here.

Thanks Jamgood. What software are you running?

[Simon Dunsmore]

Hey Folks,

After reading all your comments, I'm considering this set up. What do you think? It's a quad core with 16gb ram and a 2gb graphics card.

Cheers

Simon

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fast-Gaming-PC-Computer-Bundle-Intel-Quad-Core-i5-16GB-1TB-Windows-10-2GB-GT710-/143299555698?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

[jager945]

7 hours ago, Simon Dunsmore said:

Hey Folks,

After reading all your comments, I'm considering this set up. What do you think? It's a quad core with 16gb ram and a 2gb graphics card.

Cheers

Simon

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fast-Gaming-PC-Computer-Bundle-Intel-Quad-Core-i5-16GB-1TB-Windows-10-2GB-GT710-/143299555698?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

Don't go with these guys. Selling a GT710 as a "Gaming PC" is like selling a Fiat 500 as a "Military Vehicle". They are being very dishonest.

A GT710 is a bottom of the barrel display adapter, and will not run any games. It won't, in fact, be any faster than the iGPU that the i5 already comes with (so it's really just a waste of space, power, and money). For a (very) ballpark idea of where a GPU (or iGPU)ranks in terms of speed for StarTools, have a look here.

EDIT: Depending on where you live /  postage, etc, you could make a bid on something like this; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174946058520?hash=item28bb990118:g:CCMAAOSwIIRhR3CB It's an older i7 quad core CPU, but holds its own against many newer i7 quad cores. Crucially it comes with a pretty decent GPU. You'd want to add some more storage though.

The 2nd generation i7 2xxx CPUs or 3rd generation i7 3xxx CPUs are considered "old" now, but perform almost as well as the 3rd, 4th and even 6th and 7th generation of i7 quad cores. This knowledge, lets you save some money on the CPU/system and put that towards RAM, storage or GPU. You could even decide to buy a cheap GPU used, later or separately (just make sure it will fit in the case, and the power supply can supply the power, this is less of a given when going for office/OEM systems like the Dells and the HPs). If you know someone who will install it for you (or just look up a YouTube video - it's a 5 minute job with a couple of screws), it's a great way to save some cash.

For the GPU, 1GB and 2GB GPUs have fallen out of favour, but are perfectly fine for StarTools. You could try to score one with good performance on that OpenCL benchmark (something like a HD7850 for example, for example this guy).

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by jager945

[Simon Dunsmore]

1 hour ago, jager945 said:

Don't go with these guys. Selling a GT710 as a "Gaming PC" is like selling a Fiat 500 as a "Military Vehicle". They are being very dishonest.

A GT710 is a bottom of the barrel display adapter, and will not run any games. It won't, in fact, be any faster than the iGPU that the i5 already comes with (so it's really just a waste of space, power, and money). For a (very) ballpark idea of where a GPU (or iGPU)ranks in terms of speed for StarTools, have a look here.

EDIT: Depending on where you live /  postage, etc, you could make a bid on something like this; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174946058520?hash=item28bb990118:g:CCMAAOSwIIRhR3CB It's an older i7 quad core CPU, but holds its own against many newer i7 quad cores. Crucially it comes with a pretty decent GPU. You'd want to add some more storage though.

The 2nd generation i7 2xxx CPUs or 3rd generation i7 3xxx CPUs are considered "old" now, but perform almost as well as the 3rd, 4th and even 6th and 7th generation of i7 quad cores. This knowledge, lets you save some money on the CPU/system and put that towards RAM, storage or GPU. You could even decide to buy a cheap GPU used, later or separately (just make sure it will fit in the case, and the power supply can supply the power, this is less of a given when going for office/OEM systems like the Dells and the HPs). If you know someone who will install it for you (or just look up a YouTube video - it's a 5 minute job with a couple of screws), it's a great way to save some cash.

For the GPU, 1GB and 2GB GPUs have fallen out of favour, but are perfectly fine for StarTools. You could try to score one with good performance on that OpenCL benchmark (something like a HD7850 for example, for example this guy).

 

 

 

Hi and thanks so much for your detailed reply and suggestions. This computer stuff is really out of my comfort zone so I greatly appreciate your input.

I've got a better idea of what I'm looking for now.

Thanks again 

Simon

 

PS I'm in the UK

[Simon Dunsmore]

OK, so after a little more searching I found this one, looks good on spec, I could always upgrade the graphics card at a later date I guess.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Workstation-Quad-Core-i7-2600-3-4GHZ-16GB-RAM-1TB-HDD-Windows10-Quick-/154586723403?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

[iapa]

On 20/09/2021 at 20:16, Simon Dunsmore said:

Hi Folks,

I could do with drawing on the corporate brain.

Operating on a very tight budget, I'm in need of a desktop set up for editing. Not being overly savy with computers and only having £200 to spend. I've found a deal for a reconditioned set up. 4th gen i7 processor, 16gb ram, 1Terabite ssd. Would this work? I'll be using Startools.

Thanks for the help 

Simon

Does that include Windows? You would have to buy a license otherwise.

[malc-c]

Part of the problem is that with rising prices of IT kit, even secondhand, £200 isn't going to get you a lot.  Two year ago I needed a PC for the hobby room.  It didn't need to be anything special, just to be able to run the reptile database, digitise old audio books, web browsing etc.  A local shop offered refurbished PC's and I picked up an HP 8200 SFF for £60, an i5, 4GB DDR3 ram, inbuilt graphics, and a 500gb mechanical hard drive (later replaced with an SSD) with win10 installed.  It does the job, but then the software I'm running isn't that demanding.  But it's a 4th gen processor, it's using 2 generation old memory, and being SFF limits the upgrade options if I was to go down that route.  These days a lot of software developers will often make use of newer architecture or protocols which are not supported on older processors, or as mentioned above, switch to using GPUs to take the load off the main processor, so this could be an issue in future.

Now I'm not saying you need to spend £5K on a workstation or gaming PC to run processing software, but getting something that is more modern will have a longer lease of life and could save you money in the long run.  That workstaion is certainly a capable machine, but my guess is that it will be in the same era as my i5 machine, or it may even be a generation earlier as it has no USB 3 support.  It states it was previously used for CAD, but I bet that was using a dedicated GPU rather then the on-board graphics stated in the listing.  I also feel the listing is incorrect... There are not that many boards of that generation that support 1TB of RAM.... !! - 

Bottom line is that it's going to be down to you what option you go for.  That i7 fits your budget, it's a fair amount of power for the money, and if USB 3 isn't a requirement (you would need to see if the BIOS supports it and not just the hardware) then it will do very nicely.  You could always add a small 500GB SSD and migrate the OS to it and then use the 1TB had drive for data storage, and if you need a dedicated graphics card, this being a standard size case will take full height cards.  All of this can be added later.

 

[Simon Dunsmore]

2 hours ago, malc-c said:

Part of the problem is that with rising prices of IT kit, even secondhand, £200 isn't going to get you a lot.  Two year ago I needed a PC for the hobby room.  It didn't need to be anything special, just to be able to run the reptile database, digitise old audio books, web browsing etc.  A local shop offered refurbished PC's and I picked up an HP 8200 SFF for £60, an i5, 4GB DDR3 ram, inbuilt graphics, and a 500gb mechanical hard drive (later replaced with an SSD) with win10 installed.  It does the job, but then the software I'm running isn't that demanding.  But it's a 4th gen processor, it's using 2 generation old memory, and being SFF limits the upgrade options if I was to go down that route.  These days a lot of software developers will often make use of newer architecture or protocols which are not supported on older processors, or as mentioned above, switch to using GPUs to take the load off the main processor, so this could be an issue in future.

Now I'm not saying you need to spend £5K on a workstation or gaming PC to run processing software, but getting something that is more modern will have a longer lease of life and could save you money in the long run.  That workstaion is certainly a capable machine, but my guess is that it will be in the same era as my i5 machine, or it may even be a generation earlier as it has no USB 3 support.  It states it was previously used for CAD, but I bet that was using a dedicated GPU rather then the on-board graphics stated in the listing.  I also feel the listing is incorrect... There are not that many boards of that generation that support 1TB of RAM.... !! - 

Bottom line is that it's going to be down to you what option you go for.  That i7 fits your budget, it's a fair amount of power for the money, and if USB 3 isn't a requirement (you would need to see if the BIOS supports it and not just the hardware) then it will do very nicely.  You could always add a small 500GB SSD and migrate the OS to it and then use the 1TB had drive for data storage, and if you need a dedicated graphics card, this being a standard size case will take full height cards.  All of this can be added later.

 

Hi and thanks so much for your helpful and detailed reply. 

I appreciate your thoughts about spending a little more now to save more in the future. I presently have the funds for a new camera and used pc, but maybe I'll try and locate a used camera as well. That way it would free up a little more cash for the computer.

 

Thanks again 

Simon 

[malc-c]

Simon, you're welcome.

like a lot of things in life, the choice of PC hardware is a subjective one.  You could find that the i7 listed will be fine for doing the processing you want, and will be more than capable of doing that for several years.  It may not do it as quickly as a modern machine on a like for like process, but you'll still get the results in the end.   

In 2017 I upgraded my main PC.  The old machine was an AMD FX 6300 (6 core 6 threads), with 16GB of DDR3 ram and a 7200 rpm hard drive that I had been using since circa 2012.  It would take around 20 - 30 minutes to stack an image made form 40 subs / darks and a few flats so you could make a cuppa whilst it did the processing.  But my main interest was in editing video, and when I got my 4K camcorder in 2017 the PC struggled with rendering even 1080P footage let alone 4K.  So I bit the bullet, spent £700 on a new mainboard, case, PSU, a new AMD Ryzen 1500x (4 core 8 threads)  that had just been released, with 16GB RRD4 ram, and a super fast Nvme main drive, with a Gigabyte RX550 OC gaming graphics card.  Component wise most were at the cheaper end of the spectrum but not right at the bottom, but the spec was fine for my needs.  It renders 4K video quickly, and running the same image stack in DSS took around 2 - 3 minutes.... clearly showing it was using all available processors. This is basically what you get for getting newer hardware... time !

Now I'm not likely to replace my TV or camcorder for an 8K setup, at least not in the lifetime of this PC.  The board is perfectly upgradable and I could replace the processor with one of the newer generation Ryzen processors if I wanted to.  But for now it's served me for the past 4 years, and I'm sure it will continue to do so for the next 4 years.

Hope that helps.

Oh and all the PC's listed are just base units, some may come with keyboard and mouse, but most won't.  So you will need to budget another £20 or so for that, and upwards of £70 - £100 for a decent 1080P monitor as that won't be included in the price either