AZ GTI EQ vs Adventurer 2i

[powerlord]

Hi chaps, I have an AZ GTI in EQ mode which works a treat.

I have an Adventurer 2i on order from FLO. When I ordered it way back I wasn't using the AZ GTI in EQ mode.

Now I am, I'm wondering.. is there really any advantage at all in the Adventurer ? Or should I see if FLO can change my order to an AZ GTI ?

Yes, another AZ GTI will need a wedge, but with that added its about the same price.

I will need to heath robinson it up like the last one, adding a bit of threaded rebar and some weights, etc - but once that's done I'd have 2 AZ GTIs for doing 2 DSLR sessions at once.

And of course AZ GTI a hell of a lot easier to setup (no need for polarscope as ), and is full GOTO.

I'm getting into guiding a bit, but doubt there's much difference performance between the two ?

thoughts ?

stu

[Shimrod]

40 minutes ago, powerlord said:

Hi chaps, I have an AZ GTI in EQ mode which works a treat.

I have an Adventurer 2i on order from FLO. When I ordered it way back I wasn't using the AZ GTI in EQ mode.

Now I am, I'm wondering.. is there really any advantage at all in the Adventurer ? Or should I see if FLO can change my order to an AZ GTI ?

Yes, another AZ GTI will need a wedge, but with that added its about the same price.

I will need to heath robinson it up like the last one, adding a bit of threaded rebar and some weights, etc - but once that's done I'd have 2 AZ GTIs for doing 2 DSLR sessions at once.

And of course AZ GTI a hell of a lot easier to setup (no need for polarscope as ), and is full GOTO.

I'm getting into guiding a bit, but doubt there's much difference performance between the two ?

thoughts ?

stu

I recently bought an AZ-GTI after going through the same 'versus star adventurer' debate. You get added flexibility with the AZ-GTI - if you decide to image on one mount you can still use the other as an AZ mount for a quick observing session (made quicker with the goto). You don't really lose anything in portability but you do gain in features and payloads are about the same.

Could I ask what method you are using for polar alignment? I have just started using Sharpcap, but would be interested to know if you are using anything different.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Shimrod

[AstroNebulee]

Hi

I have the az gti but use just in az as no wedge yet. I have also ordered a star adventurer pro 2i with FLO to hopefully be delivered soon. As my az gti can only track for around 25-30 seconds before trailing, so wanted a star adventurer to complimebt my 72ed and dslr to get better tracking. When it arrives I can use the wedge as you do on your az gti for quick set up and imaging. But my star adventurer will definitely get a lot of use. So it's a case of 6 of one and half a dozen for you I expect and which you feel in your head suits you better. 

Clear skies 

 

Lee 

[powerlord]

So, I'm getting 2 min subs easy now with the AZ GTI in EQ mode. Hence, doubting I'd get much better on the adventurer, and if I did it would just be due to putting more effort into polar alignment, which could do on AZ GTI just as well ?

I use the synscan polar align.

So - I start with aligning mount/wedge as close as I can to north and polaris using compass app that shows true north, and Polar Aligner Pro (android) to get angles right - though tbh it doesn't add much to just using phone with bubble level app.

I start with pointing the mount/ota/dlsr then at polaris using laser and rdf - using the clock angle i got from polar aligner pro or syn scan.

I then do regular alignment with az gti.

Once complete, I go into advanced/polar align in synscan and choose a star - usually one I've just used for aligning. that goes through adjusting alti with mount screw, and north using left/right screws on wedge.

Once done, i reset alignment and do alignment again.

that gets me 2 mins subs.

IF I went through polar align again it might be even better, but by then I'm happy to start imaging.

Before in AZ mode I was sometimes lucky to get 10 sec subs. Seems to me at least with my AZ GTI the alti gears were just crap and it would jump all over the place. And that's after I stripped it to bits, reset/adjusted worm springs and regreased.

Using in EQ mode basically takes that axis out of the equation which might be the reason for the better accuracy.

Sounds to me like calling FLO up and pleading to change my order is a good idea then. I mean the adventurer 2i kit is swish and all that - and you get counter weight, dovetail, etc all in... but I think so far folk are agreeing, its actually not as good as the AZ GTI in EQ mode if yer up for a bit of DIY...

and - having just bought @simmo39 's 72ED off him, I'll be doing the same as you Lee

 

stu

[powerlord]

Oh one more thing about going to EQ mode... I can't swear on it.. but it seems to me the az gti in regular mode needs the app to stay connected and running to guide on a target - I imagine it's constantly sending adjustments to both axis. Certianly I've not fully tested this, but in a quick test, killing the app after setting it on a target, it lost the target.

in eq mode, since once tracking it's basically just running the RA axis in sidreal, the app can be stopped and it keeps lock I think.

As I say, very little testing, maybe some conjecture here, but makes sense to me.. So it does mean your phone is freed up in EQ mode to do other stuff if above is true.

stu

[AstroNebulee]

Thank you powerlord that's a very good explanation, you should definitely make a video of that for instructional use. I'm definitely going to try this when my star adventurer arrives using the included wedge and counterweight, the goto functionality along with the 2 min subs are brilliant. Sorry if I'm getting slightly confused, do you use the rdf to align the mount. As my 72ed has a 9x50 raci I could use that I expect and I have a hot shoe adapter for my dslr to connect my rdf. Or any instructional videos you've used for polar aligning your az gti. I have a true North compass app and polar aligner Pro I use with my az gti now. Clear skies 

[powerlord]

I kinda slowly worked all that out - there's not much video wise I could find out there.

I made up a sort of T mount which has my DSLR and lens (mainly shooting with 300mm F4 L canon pro lens, sometimes plus extender at the mo), with a RDF one side, and laser the other.

Laser is quickest for getting in right area, then RDF to get close enough to see in liveview.

For aligning the actual mount itself (not az gti - just the tripod, and wedge) - I don't bother more than just checking it's pointing north with compass app, and checking it's at correct angle using polarfinder or just any old 'bubble level' app.

it really doesn't need to be that accurate initially on polaris - the synscan polaris align thing will show you the error and let you correct it easier than fannying around with trying to align the mount itself with a scope/RDF or whatever. i.e. this way there's no need for you to ever be faffing with trying to align polaris with the right clock time, etc.

it seems to work pretty well, but as I say, I reckon after one iteration I'm prob still a bit off, so should go around it a few times really. Of course once you have dialled it in, the adjustments you are going to need to make are small from then on, as your just moving it around the clock face effectively provided you've aligned your mount to north each time - my plan there having just installed a new circular patio just for aastronomy !, is to mark on the slaps where the tripod feet go so it goes back same place each time.

Maybe I'll do a video myself, though  it seems a bit cheaky having never looked through a telescope 3 months ago, to be doing video tutorials on em. 🤪

stu

[AstroNebulee]

Thank you powerlord, definitely think you should do a video on it, as most I've seen involve using a guidescope. Will give this a go when my star adventurer arrives just to sort it and hopefully have two capable systems, all seems very simple really. 

Kind regards Lee 

[powerlord]

so FLO credited my back, and I've ordered another AZ GTI and an ioptron wedge. probably be ages before I get em but would have been same with adventurer prob.

Now need to make up another counterweight.

Lee - if considering - mine is based on regular 1in centre cast fitness weights. I use 2 1.15kg ones. I created 3d printed centres for them that screw on to bar. 7 quid for a 250mm SS M12 thread bar from ebay. And you'll need 1 M12 nut, 2 M12 wing nuts.

shave edges from nut and it screws up into AZ GTI and locks bar in place. once fitted 3d printed collars onto weights, they screw in, and wing nuts keep them secure.

stu

 

[AstroNebulee]

Thank you Stu

I'm glad you got your credit back ftom FLO and hot your new order in. Hopefully not yo long to wait for you. 

I shall use the counterweight bar and weights from my star adventurer when it arrives as I've already bought the m8 m12 thread adapter and no access to a 3d printer 

Edited April 9, 2021 by LeeHore7

[powerlord]

cool, you may find like me though that the bar wobbles even screwed tight. that what i need the shaved nut for - to push against the exposed thread surrounding on the AZ. shaved because otherwise it won't fit in, by the clutch.

 

but maybe it's just mine - they seem to be build with quite lax tolerances.

 

[AstroNebulee]

I understand what you mean now, I was being a bit dense last night haha, so the shaved nut with act as a locking nut against the clutch body. Just got to wait for the star adventurer to arrive now, could be mid April if I make the cut with back orders or maybe late may. 

[Shimrod]

2 hours ago, LeeHore7 said:

I understand what you mean now, I was being a bit dense last night haha, so the shaved nut with act as a locking nut against the clutch body. Just got to wait for the star adventurer to arrive now, could be mid April if I make the cut with back orders or maybe late may. 

I'm using the star adventurer counterweight kit and an m8-m12 thread adapter - it provides a very secure fit with no wobble at all in my case.

[maxchess]

To answer earlier question in this thread. I have found that sharp cap works well for AZGTi polar alignment. But it is very important to have the right FOV about 2degs I think. Which is usually the guide camera and it’s scope.

For actual imaging the AZgti works best with scopes up to 300mm focal length. Any longer is pushing the capabilities.

[AstroNebulee]

3 hours ago, maxchess said:

To answer earlier question in this thread. I have found that sharp cap works well for AZGTi polar alignment. But it is very important to have the right FOV about 2degs I think. Which is usually the guide camera and it’s scope.

For actual imaging the AZgti works best with scopes up to 300mm focal length. Any longer is pushing the capabilities.

I use my sw evostar 72ed on my az gti in alt az which the focal length is 420mm with my Canon 600D and can reliably get 30sec subs, maybe even be able to push a few seconds more out of it. I level the mount, then add my scope and dslr, check and level again. Producing some stand out captures. 

[powerlord]

Yeh, it seems to be fairly well accepted that the AZ GTIs are not exactly honed to perfection in the factory. I've seen folk saying their's was missing a thread for a balance bar for example. And some seen to have better tolerances and less backlash than others.

I've did the usual, and taken mine apart, re-greased it, adjusted the worm tensions, etc. Who know if it helped, but it feels as good as it's gonna get. But I do believe mine has terrible ALT accuracy for whatever reason. So taking that out the picture by running in EQ mode made a massive difference to me. Your results may vary.

But I've shot unguided 60 seconds with my 1300mm mak102 no problem (it came as part of a kit with the AZ GTI). Quite a lot of it comes down to how many times you go around the PA - since the nature of how the synapp process works means you really have to reset aligment and do your 2/3 star alignment again, then PA again, repeat.

Frankly I've only once had the patience to go around twice. But if shooting with long FLs I'd imagine that is key.

The other big EQ advantage (it is in the manual), is that you don't need to be connected to the app all the time on yer phone. just goto, and leave it tracking. I had bought a 2nd hand Samsung S7 and hardcase just so I can leave it out there with the mount and not have to have my mobile sitting close enough to the thing for hours while it imaged. Now, it's not required!

 

[AstroNebulee]

11 hours ago, powerlord said:

Quite a lot of it comes down to how many times you go around the PA - since the nature of how the synapp process works means you really have to reset aligment and do your 2/3 star alignment again, then PA again, repeat.

Frankly I've only once had the patience to go around twice. But if shooting with long FLs I'd imagine that is key.

Hi

Do you mean you have to realign and do polar alignment again when you switch to a new target. Sorry if this is a really silly question 

Clear skies 

[powerlord]

no I mean, when you PA you are manually moving the mount. So then, afterwards it doesn't know where it's pointing. So you need to do the synscan align process again (reset first, then align with 2 or 3 star).

So minimum routine (assumes mount has moved since last session):

- level tripod, use summit like polar align pro app on mobile to get bearing and angle of WEDGE as spot on as you can.

- fit yer gear, and balance.

- turn stuff on, and start to use your camera ideally, and an RDF or whatever.

- reset alignment

-do align routine

- do PA routine

- reset alignment

- do align routine (which will now be much better since you've PAed, plus RA should be closer for tracking)

 

If you can be ar$ed - go around this once or twice more - you should get closer to just moving polaris left/right, up/down in the crosshairs of your camera with each PA attempt.

Once satisfied, goto and image as many targets as you like. You don't need to do this again unless you move the mount (but if you do plan to use it again without moving it after turning it off, be sure to use hibernate - but you'd have to PA again then anyway as different night, so not sure that adds much frankly)

 

 

[AstroNebulee]

Thank you, I understand it now. I have to move my set up in every night and take out at every session anyway as I live in a first floor flat and image from a communal area outside, so used to aligning my az gti and resetting alignment everytime anyway, just adding in a polar alignment now so not much difference really to me, once I get used to PA, thank you again for your reply. 

Clear skies 

Edited April 29, 2021 by AstroNebulee