Upgrade parts, Is it even worth it yet?

[wibblefish]

Hi,

I am fairly new to everything astronomy related so am devouring all the beginner books and only just gotten myself a telescope (Sky-Watcher Evostar 90/660 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-evostar-90-660-az-pronto.html). I have only managed to successfully get out with this once at present due to the poor weather at present but thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. Double so since I had made sure I wouldn't have to lofty ambitions about what I might see in terms of detail as I am aware that the scope and present ability to find / see are both likely to be very limited! Been wow'd by the moon of course, loved navigating through the constellations (simple ones I have been able to find so far) and would like to be able to see planets though like Mars I saw I am expecting it to be a very small dot!

I hadn't planned on doing any upgrades for a while (or maybe at all) bar buying more books, planisphere etc. to get my brain used to what I am seeing. That said, however, I have some very kind family that would like to give me some pennies towards the new hobby for Christmas / birthday and I am wondering if anyone could recommend some additional pieces that may be improvements on the stock items I have already?

I was guessing some simple things based on various books / posts the following but I am not honestly sure if they would be worth while in terms of improving things:

- 2x Barlow

- New eyepeices, perhaps something like a 32mm, 15-18mm which could be combined with a barlow for high magnification? I've looked at the fov calc visualizations with various sizes to try and get a reasonable (small) image of Saturn but I fear it might be more of a telescope limitation than anything I can achieve directly. 

- New star diagonal? I read a few recommendations but I am not clear if this will improve things overly as the opinions were mixed.

- Improved RDF to a Telrad / Quikfinder, again it doesn't seem overly worth while but I haven't looked into this one much

Anyways I am more inclined to hold fire on anything till I get much more observation under my belt but any suggestions are welcome! Also I am aware of the current stock limitations due to the pandemic so that will also help the no rush policy I hope! 

Cheers

Edited December 9, 2020 by wibblefish

[SStanford]

45 minutes ago, wibblefish said:

Hi,

I am fairly new to everything astronomy related so am devouring all the beginner books and only just gotten myself a telescope (Sky-Watcher Evostar 90/660 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-evostar-90-660-az-pronto.html). I have only managed to successfully get out with this once at present due to the poor weather at present but thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. Double so since I had made sure I wouldn't have to lofty ambitions about what I might see in terms of detail as I am aware that the scope and present ability to find / see are both likely to be very limited! Been wow'd by the moon of course, loved navigating through the constellations (simple ones I have been able to find so far) and would like to be able to see planets though like Mars I saw I am expecting it to be a very small dot!

I hadn't planned on doing any upgrades for a while (or maybe at all) bar buying more books, planisphere etc. to get my brain used to what I am seeing. That said, however, I have some very kind family that would like to give me some pennies towards the new hobby for Christmas / birthday and I am wondering if anyone could recommend some additional pieces that may be improvements on the stock items I have already?

I was guessing some simple things based on various books / posts the following but I am not honestly sure if they would be worth while in terms of improving things:

- 2x Barlow

- New eyepeices, perhaps something like a 32mm, 15-18mm which could be combined with a barlow for high magnification? I've looked at the fov calc visualizations with various sizes to try and get a reasonable (small) image of Saturn but I fear it might be more of a telescope limitation than anything I can achieve directly. 

- New star diagonal? I read a few recommendations but I am not clear if this will improve things overly as the opinions were mixed.

- Improved RDF to a Telrad / Quikfinder, again it doesn't seem overly worth while but I haven't looked into this one much

Anyways I am more inclined to hold fire on anything till I get much more observation under my belt but any suggestions are welcome! Also I am aware of the current stock limitations due to the pandemic so that will also help the no rush policy I hope! 

Cheers

Hi Wibblefish,

I'm also new to Astronomy and am heavily dependent on the forum and books. 

The first question that was out to me was; what is your goal? Astrophotography or just observation?

A decent mount capable of supporting your intended OTA weight is key, so I'm told.  With the mount being the most important component overall.  

Which books have you finished? any recommendations?

S.

[wibblefish]

11 minutes ago, SStanford said:

Hi Wibblefish,

I'm also new to Astronomy and am heavily dependent on the forum and books. 

The first question that was out to me was; what is your goal? Astrophotography or just observation?

A decent mount capable of supporting your intended OTA weight is key, so I'm told.  With the mount being the most important component overall.  

Which books have you finished? any recommendations?

S.

My goal is primarily observation, astrophotography is probably to rich for my blood  Saying that I will probably buy an adapter for the m43 dslr at some point (though I doubt it will be that great as its a small sensor) and will take some eyepeice pictures with a camera no doubt.

I have an AZ pronto mount for the scope and it seems sturdy enough from moving it around the garden the other night trying to find various things (my garden is small / surrounded by trees / buildings), on and off grass. The telescope is quite light and its not overbalanced as it is a short tube, one of the reasons I went for it as it is portable enough and  easy to take in and out of the garage. So overall I am satisfied the mount is enough, though I guess I could move to a better one later (or likely the next telescope way in the future), not sure on EQ since polaris is not visible from my location  

I have finished Nightwatch and Backyard Astronomers guide, both are excellent and have kept me learning and interested whilst the weather is terrible.

I would probably give the edge to Nightwatch in terms of explaining the sky and observations for beginners as well as having some good simple charts.

Backyard Astronomers Guide is very detailed and discusses viewing, telescopes, asscessories, and lots more in a lot of depth which I think would make it ideal if you were looking at choosing telescopes / starting in astrophotography as well as getting into the hobby. I think they both kind of complement each other well!

I am awaiting a copy of Turn Left at Orion to arrive today as that seems to be recommended by just about everyone  

Edited December 9, 2020 by wibblefish

[SStanford]

5 minutes ago, wibblefish said:

My goal is primarily observation, astrophotography is probably to rich for my blood  Saying that I will probably buy an adapter for the m43 dslr at some point (though I doubt it will be that great as its a small sensor) and will take some eyepeice pictures with a camera no doubt.

I have an AZ pronto mount for the scope and it seems sturdy enough from moving it around the garden the other night trying to find various things (my garden is small / surrounded by trees / buildings), on and off grass. The telescope is quite light and its not overbalanced as it is a short tube, one of the reasons I went for it as it is portable enough and  easy to take in and out of the garage. So overall I am satisfied the mount is enough, though I guess I could move to a better one later, not sure on EQ since polaris is not visible from my location  

I have finished Nightwatch and Backyard Astronomers guide, both are excellent and have kept me learning and interested whilst the weather is terrible.

I would probably give the edge to Nightwatch in terms of explaining the sky and observations for beginners.

Backyard Astronomers Guide is very detailed and discusses viewing, telescopes, asscessories, and lots more in a lot of depth which I think would make it ideal if you were looking at choosing telescopes / starting in astrophotography.

I am awaiting a copy of Turn Left at Orion to arrive today as that seems to be recommended by just about everyone  

I had the same issue with polaris.  The gang on here have been really helpful recommending alternatives with drift alignment/2 star alignment with PA error on Synscan.  Not being able to see Polaris from my location also scared me off a EQ mount initially! For observation only your setup seems ideal.

I heard good thing about Turn Left too although I'm not too sure how useful it'll be for me based in Bortle 8; it's a star hoppers guide mostly, no? 

[wibblefish]

5 minutes ago, SStanford said:

I had the same issue with polaris.  The gang on here have been really helpful recommending alternatives with drift alignment/2 star alignment with PA error on Synscan.  Not being able to see Polaris from my location also scared me off a EQ mount initially! For observation only your setup seems ideal.

I heard good thing about Turn Left too although I'm not too sure how useful it'll be for me based in Bortle 8; it's a star hoppers guide mostly, no? 

Thats interesting, good to know there are ways around it, I was guessing something simpler like point an app on a phone at Polaris and get a "rough" alignment. 

I am in Bortle 4 I think (well when there isn't thick cloud) though lots of bright streetlights around even with our tree cover and some security lights as well as some field of view limitations for low horizon objects  I do live right near rural places so once I am more comfortable I might take a wander out to some darker skies in future.

Yeah, Turn Left at Orion is (hopefully) more of a help to find XYZ interesting place in the sky book which is what I am looking for next rather than having to overly rely on my phone apps to understand what I am seeing though I am sure it will be a practice thing primarily.

Edited December 9, 2020 by wibblefish

[Neil H]

Hi guys turn left at orion is a must have book will show what you can see with bins or telescope and what time of year to look for the targets 

[happy-kat]

There is an app that can be used to see Polaris if you can't see it directly. 

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/362486-how-to-get-quick-and-easy-polar-alignment-and-add-a-push-to-finder-screen-to-an-eq2-mounted-scope-all-for-£20/

A warm beane hat, there's even a sgl one I think

Binocular sky free newsletter is great for a monthly target list

A mid range eyepiece for DSO viewing and a 30mm or 32mm one for hunting are a couple thoughts

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by happy-kat

[Cosmic Geoff]

I don't know what eyepieces you got with the 90/660, but it could be worth supplementing them with a set of decent quality eyepieces to give a range of magnifications, and also a x2 Barlow lens. 

As for the finder and diagonal, I suggest you hold fire unless the existing ones are giving you a problem.

[Neil H]

Another thought if buying eyepieces dont buy for this scope buy them your upgraded scope you will change your scope to a bigger better scope once your more into the hobby this will save you money 

I started with a 114/900 i changed all my eyepieces then changed scope to a 150/750 then upgraded again to a 200/1200 then added a refractor as well but still using eyepieces i up graded at the start

[happy-kat]

In terms of looking at eyepieces then if they are suitable for a faster scope if at a later date you had an f5 for example they would also work nicely there.

[wibblefish]

Thank you for the suggestions so far, I think eye pieces is likely the right route. @Cosmic Geoff I currently have a standard Sky-watcher stock 10mm and 25mm I would need to check exactly what though, the 25mm seems fine (to my eyes anyway) though I haven't had a go with the 10mm yet.

I was thinking along the lines of a 32mm and something around 14mm plus a 2x barlow but I am not quite sure what sizes would be best for a good coverage of magnifications?

Interesting idea @Neil H would there be any in particular you might recommend, I see BST Starguiders recommended alot here?

@happy-kat thanks for the suggestions, the newsletter sounds like a good idea for targets, I do have a beanie but an SGL one might be a good upgrade

Edited December 9, 2020 by wibblefish

[Jasonb]

I think I'm right in saying that if you got that exact Telescope in your link then you would have got a 25mm and a 10mm EP? Which basically means that you have approx. 26x and 66x magnification right now?

I'm just starting too, and I have a different telescope (130P Reflector) but almost the exact same magnification (25x and 65x). I've only managed to get out a couple of nights so far, and am hoping to get a 'decent' observing session done soon.

I already have a shopping list in my head too. A Barlow is definitely on it, probably one that was recommended on here that will give me 2.25x, and also 1.3x on certain eyepieces if they can take it. After the Barlow, I plan to get a 'good' EP (BST Starguiders come well recommended), probably a 8mm one, which will give me 81x on its own and along with the Barlow will get me up to 183x, which I reckon is more than enough to be going on with! I've read a lot that the 25mm EPs that come with telescopes tend to be ok, but the other ones (usually 10mm) aren't so great, so that's the one to 'replace' (or at least buy an EP of similar size) first. But the Barlow is first for me, that one piece of equipment will effectively double my magnification options in one go.

I'm not sure if you have actually tried to look at Saturn or not yet, but even at 65x I can see the rings around the planet, and in moments of clarity I can see the distinction between the planet itself and the rings. So don't be waiting for a Barlow/Eye Pieces before having a look at it!

I will probably look a some other Finder too at some stage, but really now my primary choices are increasing my range of viewing options via Barlow and EPs. Oh, I'm also getting a collimator as well, but that's not an issue for you with a refractor!

[Jasonb]

Also, if you haven't seen it yet, have a look at this article...

which really helps you decide on what Focal Length eyepieces should work best on your Telescope. Personally, I'm not sure if I see the need for anything longer than a 25mm right now, so I'd rather spend money on a 8mm or a 12mm than a 32mm, which is going to be 20x on your telescope, not sure what 20x gives you that you don't already have with your 26x? With some careful choices, you can get 3 well 'placed' Eye pieces and a Barlow and you have lots of options then!

[Cosmic Geoff]

3 minutes ago, wibblefish said:

I currently have a standard Sky-watcher stock 10mm and 25mm I would need to check exactly what though, the 25mm seems fine (to my eyes anyway) though I haven't had a go with the 10mm yet.

You should think of replacing the 10mm at least.  You need plenty of magnification for viewing planets like Saturn. Whether the scope will deliver a usable image at high power is something you will have to find out.

[Jasonb]

Sorry, me again! This was another article I found helpful, using exit pupil size (easily calculated) to decide on the best eyepiece sizes for your telescope...

https://agenaastro.com/articles/guides/choosing-eyepieces-for-your-telescope.html

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Jasonb

[wibblefish]

@Jasonb

I do have that exact telescope  

That sounds similar to my thinking, good to know I am not thinking something odd in terms of upgrade paths. I was oddly thinking of going wider rather than narrower but I probably need to read into it more as you say 25 > 32 might not do much. I need to read more into it I imagine to work out what might be best. Appreciate the links and thoughts!

@Cosmic Geoff yeah I hear most  stock 10mm are junk so I am not hopeful, I do wonder if the magnification will be a problem for Saturn etc. since this is a smaller refractor though the fov sims say it might with a good barlow on as well, guess I will have to take a punt (carefully!)

Edited December 9, 2020 by wibblefish

[happy-kat]

1 hour ago, wibblefish said:

My goal is primarily observation, astrophotography is probably to rich for my blood  Saying that I will probably buy an adapter for the m43 dslr,...

Interestingly member keyboardblondie is capturing globulars and the whirlpool using sub 1 second exposures, lots, with a very similar telescope and static tripod. Sometimes pushing the capabilities with what you have can be surprising.

[wibblefish]

5 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Interestingly member keyboardblondie is capturing globulars and the whirlpool using sub 1 second exposures, lots, with a very similar telescope and static tripod. Sometimes pushing the capabilities with what you have can be surprising.

Interesting, I will look it up thanks, I have done some sky stuff with just a long exposure on a tripod with my dslr but its been a few years since I tried it (see below not entirely sure what it was even aiming at lol)  I am definately all about working with what I have rather than chasing the dragon at the moment since pennies are hard to come by especially if its going to be cloudy the whole time! I bought a pair of binoculars I will also be using for being out and about or quick cloud cover breaks!

Edited December 9, 2020 by wibblefish

[happy-kat]

Plus there is also eye relief when considering eyepieces particularly if any glasses wearers