Yet another telescope advice request...

[MattG]

Hi all,

A friend very kindly gave me a Celestron Powerseeker 70EQ for my birthday last year and I have really enjoyed using it, mostly looking at the moon. I want to upgrade in the new year and have been doing some reading trying to decide what scope & mount to go for.

My priorities / thoughts:

Budget is in the region of £500, happy to slowly spend more over time to get additional accessories.

I am probably only going to be able to get out a dozen or so times a year where it's dark enough and clear enough. Because of this ease of set up and use will be important. Although I will spend a lot of time reading around this new hobby I am unlikely to be able to go out more than about once a week. The best telescope for me will definitely be the one I use rather than necessarily the best telescope.

Although I would love to get into astrophotography, I'm aware that those amazing pictures of DSOs are probably going to be out of my ability for a while. I was therefore thinking of focusing on planetary viewing - being able to view and photograph jupiter and saturn in any sort of detail would blow my mind. The same goes for being able to see a galaxy, getting even a crappy photo of andromeda would be incredible. This is a more exciting prospect for me than spending weeks taking 1000s of long exposures and then stacking them etc etc to eventually get a (stunning) shot. Observing would definitely be the priority over imaging but being able to take photos (with a canon DSLR) would be a bonus, even if the quality isn't amazing.

I'm aware that I think that I'm looking for 'quick wins' here but with a baby on the way I'm just realistic to the amount of nights I'm likely to be able to get out in the next few years. I live in a small town and have a park within walking distance which is probably going to be where I use the telescope most. I'm 32 and so happy to carry a fair bit of weight though, it's only a few 100ms. Occasionally though I could get in the car and drive 10 minutes to be further into the countryside to get away from light polution. For portability I was thinking a Schmidt Cassegrain or Maksutov Cassegrain.

I was therefore looking at getting a reasonably slow telescope with a focal ratio of above 10, preferably with the biggest apeture I can find in the price range. Ideally I think having a motorised goto mount would be good, preferably wifi controlled as it's the 21st century.

I was looking at either the Mease ETX90 or the Celestron NexStar 4SE. However, the Sky Watcher Star Discovery P150i also appeals though this might be a bit fast? Does the ETX90 have too small an aperture? 

Does anybody have any other recommendations or advice? With my priorities, is my understanding right so far?

Any advice would be gratefully received!

Matt

Edited December 7, 2020 by MattG

[wimvb]

How about a Dob? A bit above your budget, but with GoTo

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html

Abt 500 and larger without GoTo

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-250px-flextube-dobsonian.html

[MattG]

Thanks for the recommendations wimvb. Is there any particular reason you would suggest those (in particular the top one) over the ones I was looking at? With that one, how rugged is it? It looks quite big and I'm concerned that if I'm carrying it around it's going to get bumped about a bit. Do you know if you can get a decent carry case for it to a) help protect it and b) make it easier to move?

Also, is that first one not f6? I thought that for planetary viewing a slower focal ratio was better? Or is f6 a good compromise that would also allow some DSO viewing?

Edited December 7, 2020 by MattG

[wimvb]

First, for viewing I would suggest a so called altaz mount (up-down left-right). This type of mount is easier to point and the eye piece is always in the same direction. This is especially important for a newtonian telescope. With a (faster) dobsonian you can also look at nebulas. Refracting telescopes (with lenses and not mirrors), you will get chromatic abberations, coloured fringes around stars and planets.

with a 200 mm f/6 dobsonian you have about the same focal length but 4times as much light gathering as with a 100mm f/13.

Depending on what you are interested in most, the scopes you suggested can also do a good job. Personally, for (planetary) viewing, I would prefer a reflector (dob, cassegrain, maksutov) over a refractor, unless that reflector is apochromatic or at least a good doublet. And that puts you in a different price range.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by wimvb

[Tiny Clanger]

1 hour ago, MattG said:

Hi all,

A friend very kindly gave me a Celestron Powerseeker 70EQ for my birthday last year and I have really enjoyed using it, mostly looking at the moon. I want to upgrade in the new year and have been doing some reading trying to decide what scope & mount to go for.

My priorities / thoughts:

Budget is in the region of £500, happy to slowly spend more over time to get additional accessories.

I am probably only going to be able to get out a dozen or so times a year where it's dark enough and clear enough. Because of this ease of set up and use will be important. Although I will spend a lot of time reading around this new hobby I am unlikely to be able to go out more than about once a week. The best telescope for me will definitely be the one I use rather than necessarily the best telescope.

Although I would love to get into astrophotography, I'm aware that those amazing pictures of DSOs are probably going to be out of my ability for a while. I was therefore thinking of focusing on planetary viewing - being able to view and photograph jupiter and saturn in any sort of detail would blow my mind. The same goes for being able to see a galaxy, getting even a crappy photo of andromeda would be incredible. This is a more exciting prospect for me than spending weeks taking 1000s of long exposures and then stacking them etc etc to eventually get a (stunning) shot. Observing would definitely be the priority over imaging but being able to take photos (with a canon DSLR) would be a bonus, even if the quality isn't amazing.

I'm aware that I think that I'm looking for 'quick wins' here but with a baby on the way I'm just realistic to the amount of nights I'm likely to be able to get out in the next few years. I live in a small town and have a park within walking distance which is probably going to be where I use the telescope most. I'm 32 and so happy to carry a fair bit of weight though, it's only a few 100ms. Occasionally though I could get in the car and drive 10 minutes to be further into the countryside to get away from light polution. For portability I was thinking a Schmidt Cassegrain or Maksutov Cassegrain.

I was therefore looking at getting a reasonably slow telescope with a focal ratio of above 10, preferably with the biggest apeture I can find in the price range. Ideally I think having a motorised goto mount would be good, preferably wifi controlled as it's the 21st century.

I was looking at either the Mease ETX90 or the Celestron NexStar 4SE. However, the Sky Watcher Star Discovery P150i also appeals though this might be a bit fast? Does the ETX90 have too small an aperture? 

Does anybody have any other recommendations or advice? With my priorities, is my understanding right so far?

Any advice would be gratefully received!

Matt

The practicality of quickly nipping out to the park with a big telescope ( and a big aperture means a big telescope, there's no getting round that) is not ideal to be honest.

Dobs are great, you get a lot of mirror for your money, but big ones are , well, big and therefore awkward to store and move, and the majority are not goto. They are simple to use , and cool fast though.

 Maksutovs are often suggested for looking at planets, and are more compact and portable. However, for the cash, you get a smaller aperture than a newtonian ( dobsonians are a subset of newtonians, it's their simple base which defines dobs)  plus maks have a cool down time which will have you hanging around the park for half an hour or so before you can use the scope properly. 

I've no idea about motorised goto stuff, I've barely entered the 20th century let alone the 21st, but I have bought both a heritage 150 tabletop dob (which closes down for storage and transport) and a 127 skywatcher mak . The dob is the better tool for DSOs , the mak for planets. Both are highly portable , good at what they do, and easy to use. I have the mak on an alt/az atop a very sturdy photo tripod, but I'm sure I've seen it sold as a package with a go to alt/az & tripod.

Heather

[jonathan]

Just throwing this one in here... if looking at the 4SE then consider the 6SE, it comes on the same mount as the 8SE (or at least it did when I bought my 8SE) so for the 6SE it's a reasonably steady mount, with the 8SE it's at the weight limit so not such a good mount for that.  I have the 8SE and ended up selling the Goto mount it came with as I just couldn't get on with it, but I hear good things from 4SE and 6SE owners.  8SE realistically could sit on an EQ5, I have mine on an NEQ6 Pro but that is a heavy mount and not something you'd want to carry more than 20 feet or so at a time.

The 4SE and 6SE should be manageable complete, I was able to lift my 8SE out into the garden mounted on the Goto mount.  The SCT design of the Celestron NexStar SE range is good for viewing planets and bright nebula, however small or dim DSOs are more of a challenge.  Last time I looked, the 4SE had a different back to the 6SE / 8SE which permitted the connection of a camera, I think it has a flip mirror built in so you can observe or photograph without having to remove anything, though it's been a while since I saw one up close so best get a second opinion on that.

All goto setups come with a caveat in that if you don't understand and follow the setup steps precisely then it can mess up the operation of the goto system, and if something doesn't work then it can be a real pain trying to find where the problem lies, not to mention frustrating as you spend your evening fiddling with handset menus instead of observing.

For straight forward viewing, providing you can find the targets, a non-goto setup with simple motorised tracking (typical for EQ mounts) or just push-to (in the case of a typical Dob) avoids the pitfalls of Goto and saves you quite a big chunk of money too.  Motorised tracking is not especially required for visual observing but helps when using high magnification (which you will want for seeing detail on planets), and also helps with longer exposure photography (usually not necessary for planetary stuff though).  Manual slow motion controls require you to touch the mount which can introduce vibrations and slop if the gears are not that great.

Edited December 8, 2020 by jonathan

[MattG]

Thanks everybody for the responses. I think the 6SE is a bit out of my price range, not sure how impressed my other half would be if I dropped £1,000 on a telescope when we're about to have our first baby 🤣 I think I can probably strech the £500 budget to £800 but £1,000 seems a bit far.

The complete lack of supply at the moment I think is actually going to work in my favour as it will mean I spend more time researching before buying. On the flip side, the weather is killing me at the moment, I haven't seen a star for aaaaages!

I'm starting to doubt whether having a go-to is a priority or not. It looks like it adds a fair chunk to the cost of the telescope which I wonder if I would be better off putting into getting a bigger aperture? Any thoughts? It would also force me to learn the night sky a bit more. This would obviously be a good thing in the long run but I do wonder how much progress I will make if I can only go out a few nights a month (and probably only over winter). Would the quick wins of a go-to (assuming I can align it properly which I won't know until I've bought it...) actually mean I get more from this new hobby? Difficult to know!

I do think portability has to be a big consideration which I guess is the offset to having a better telescope. I live in a small town and I don't think I will be able to see much from my garden, I will need to be able to move things down to the park. Everything I read says that I will get more performance from a Dob but I do worry about the portability, I guess the flextube of the recommendation by wimvb would help with that. With that, it's f/6, does that mean it's a good compromise that would allow me to view both planets and some DSOs? Also, I can't seem to find the weight of it, anybody own one and able to estimate?

Long story short - at this point I'm still torn between the Meade ETX90, the Celestron NexStar 4SE and now the Sky-Watcher Skyliner 200P Flextube....

Matt

[wimvb]

I've never done much visual, went to astrophotography almost from the beginning, and have always had a goto scope. But on those occasions I did, and without goto, finding my target felt more rewarding, a pat on the back moment. You will probably also spend more time on each target than if you use goto. Automation is an invitation to target hopping. As far as light pollution is concerned, there are filters for visual use. The problem may be to get proper dark adaption if there are light sources near your observing location.

If you have a baby to also take care of, you should probably consider a scope that can be carried or wheeled out and set up in a short time near your house, without having to travel to a darker site/park. This allows you to use it when you have time, even if that is only a short time. The best scope is the one that gets used.

[Pixies]

I believe the flextube is heavier than the equivalent standard Skyliner, it's just the former packs up smaller.

Do you know the Bortle rating of your local area? Mine is 6 (close to 5) and the 8" dob is fine for a lot of targets. Sure, faint DSOs will always be better at a dark site, but I can still see, Andromeda, Bodes's galaxies, Orion Nebula, even the Dumbbell nebula. It's great for the planets, too. And it's not that heavy, if you ask me. If you can keep it somewhere near the back door, it's a 5 minutes job to set up.

Here's a good post about the slightly larger sized Bresser 10" (grab and go!):

Of course, if you are in a  2nd floor flat, please ignore the above.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Pixies

[MattG]

Thanks Pixies and wimvb. I live in a house that is in a Bortle rating of 5 but quite close to areas of 4 and even 3 would only be a ten minute drive away. I was trying to guage last night how mad the light pollution is right outside my house and I don't think it's too bad. I have an east facing back garden and I think I could possibly use that to see some things (possible with some sort of hood). I think I will just have to experiment and see what works best. You're definitely right that a telescope I use is the best one.

I'm leaning more and more to either the 200P or the 250P without GoTo. I think either would let me see both planets and some DSOs (?) which would be incredible. From reading around I appreciate I'm not going to be seeing images like can be seen in photos but still, being able to differentiate Saturns rings or even the red spot would be amazing.

[mikemarotta]

For the baby, I have nursey rhymes sung to the Alphabet song

These are the rules of astronomy.
We're beset by entropy.
Things run down
And things burn out.
This I know without a doubt.
O B A F G K M
Then they start all over again.
 

[Paz]

I think a dobsonian would give the best views simply because of the aperture.

However it is worth trying to get a feel for the size, weight, and practicality because it does matter. They are fast to set up and simple to use, but they have relatively big/heavy components.