Full Spectrum, Ha, IR filter DSLR modification.

[Scream]

OK, I'll start out by saying I've searched this in the search bar on this site and I've read through some of them but want to start my own because I want to ask some questions that haven't be asked in them or answered and I may have more questions afterwards.

I want to understand how each one functions, what it can do, what it can't do, etc.

What are the pro and cons of each of them?

Do any of these modifications prevent you from being able to do something?

When would you want said modification (depending on the one you select)?

I've been trying to do a lot of reading and I think in the process I have confussed myself and made it harder for myself, I want to simplify as best I can and start from scratch.

Here is what I have gathered and I'll have probably forgotten to include some things. Full spectrum uses (IR filter?) and clear glass, I don't understand how it functions but what I have read is that it can cause focusing issues unless calibrated(?). Ha is an emission that nebulas emit which is a red colour, other things can emit this light and supposedly it is (good/bad?) for light pollution, this mod allows more of that light in that otherwise would've been blocked. IR lets in Ha but not to the same extent (That is all I have for this one)?.

 

[michael8554]

In the case of Canon DSLRs, removing the #LPF-2 Filter allows more Ha in, which is good.

The #LPF-1 Filter remains, this blocks IR which can cause Star Bloat on Refractors, not on Reflectors.

AutoFocus will in incorrect unless adjusted by the Modder, if not corrected only focusing with LiveView will be correct.

Same for Full Spectrum mod, both #LPF Filters removed, IR will be allowed in, Star Bloat on Refractors, I 'm not convinced it's a good mod to do.

Michael

 

[Scorpius]

I have a Canon 60D I've been considering for modification so following with interest.

[MarsG76]

If you're going to use the 60D for only AP, than you will not regret it.... full spectrum modding ym 40D was the best thing I could do for my astro imaging.... I always use a filter of some sort with it.. always use the IR/UV Cut for any natural color exposures otherwise it's HAlpha, OIII, SII or UVenus filter... so I dont have the IR leak/IR bloated star issue within my SCT or refractor.

 

[Scorpius]

5 minutes ago, MarsG76 said:

If you're going to use the 60D for only AP, than you will not regret it.... full spectrum modding ym 40D was the best thing I could do for my astro imaging.... I always use a filter of some sort with it.. always use the IR/UV Cut for any natural color exposures otherwise it's HAlpha, OIII, SII or UVenus filter... so I dont have the IR leak/IR bloated star issue within my SCT or refractor.

 

So did you mod it yourself or pay someone to do it for you? I noticed your sig says Full Spectrum Modded and Cooled Canon 40D.  Curious how you go about cooling a DSLR?

[MarsG76]

Just now, Scorpius said:

So did you mod it yourself or pay someone to do it for you? I noticed your sig says Full Spectrum Modded and Cooled Canon 40D.  Curious how you go about cooling a DSLR?

I modded it myself...

I cooled the sensor by cutting to shape and adding a copper plate to the back of the sensor that comes out of the side of the camera. The plate sticking out of the DSLR body has two peltier coolers (with heatsyncs) attached to freeze the copper plate, effectively "sucking" out the heat from the sensor... 

 

My last version cooled the sensor by 18°C below ambience, so I was falling below freezing on nights that were 15°C and initially I did have a problem with dew destroying my main PCB. On subsequent versions I protected the main PCB with hot glue, used some absorption strips inside the DSLR body to fill out the gaps to soak up any moisture from cooling and used expanding foam to fill in around active cooling openings to stop moisture from entering the camera.
 

I added a thin temperature sensor in between the copper plate and the sensor as well as another sensor embedded inside the expanding foam right next to the peltier on the active cooling side to get a accurate reading of the sensor and cooler temperatures. The cooler side dropped to -15°C during the 15°C night. 

At one point the front of the DSLR sensor frosted over so now I wrap a heat strip around the T-Ring/front of the DSLR which stops that... since these condensation protection additions, I did not have a single issue with the DSLR on many nights during the year where the sensor was at 1-2°C (controlled with a temperature controller), usually around 5°C below the dew point... but my subs are virtually noise free and have a much cleaner and crisper look to them.... even the 1800 second subs have almost no noise.

 

 

[Scorpius]

19 minutes ago, MarsG76 said:

I modded it myself...

I cooled the sensor by cutting to shape and adding a copper plate to the back of the sensor that comes out of the side of the camera. The plate sticking out of the DSLR body has two peltier coolers (with heatsyncs) attached to freeze the copper plate, effectively "sucking" out the heat from the sensor... 

 

My last version cooled the sensor by 18°C below ambience, so I was falling below freezing on nights that were 15°C and initially I did have a problem with dew destroying my main PCB. On subsequent versions I protected the main PCB with hot glue, used some absorption strips inside the DSLR body to fill out the gaps to soak up any moisture from cooling and used expanding foam to fill in around active cooling openings to stop moisture from entering the camera.
 

I added a thin temperature sensor in between the copper plate and the sensor as well as another sensor embedded inside the expanding foam right next to the peltier on the active cooling side to get a accurate reading of the sensor and cooler temperatures. The cooler side dropped to -15°C during the 15°C night. 

At one point the front of the DSLR sensor frosted over so now I wrap a heat strip around the T-Ring/front of the DSLR which stops that... since these condensation protection additions, I did not have a single issue with the DSLR on many nights during the year where the sensor was at 1-2°C (controlled with a temperature controller), usually around 5°C below the dew point... but my subs are virtually noise free and have a much cleaner and crisper look to them.... even the 1800 second subs have almost no noise.

 

 

Wow!!! Very impressive! I'd be nervous just trying to remove the filter and get everything back together without ruining the camera LOL I understand the heatsink but all those tweaks to stop the condensation would be beyond me...

[MarsG76]

45 minutes ago, Scorpius said:

Wow!!! Very impressive! I'd be nervous just trying to remove the filter and get everything back together without ruining the camera LOL I understand the heatsink but all those tweaks to stop the condensation would be beyond me...

There is always a massive risk involved... since I started trying to cool my DSLR, this is the 4th camera, so a "few eggs were broken to make this omelet". This was a project which had a learning curve involved and something that I took my time in doing.... 

The added bonus of my DSLR is that the 40D is great for astrophotography, having big physical pixels on the sensor being only 10  megapixels... sensitive with features like USB control and live view AND these DSLRs are quite cheap to buy second hand if something goes wrong (and it did).... 

Currently I'm more than happy how this camera operates and results it delivers... I was going to buy a dedicated CCD/CMOS cooled astro camera but once I got my 40D as it is, I put the purchase of the astrocam on hold as I do not believe that it would improve so much as to justify a $2,000-$6,000 spend... (considered the ZWO1600 than ZWO6200)... ultimately I do want to go the hyperstar route in the future, so than I'll need a smaller package camera as not to obstruct the front of my SCT, and I'll go and sell a kidney for the hobby than....

 

[michael8554]

14 hours ago, Scorpius said:

I have a Canon 60D I've been considering for modification so following with interest.

Just be aware that the 60D sensor is spring-loaded, so you'll need to measure it's position very accurately, or you'll have a tilted sensor when you reassemble.

Earlier DSLR's before the 500D had sensor tilt adjusted with thin shims, very easy to put those back and preserve the sensor position.

Michael

[Scorpius]

1 hour ago, michael8554 said:

Just be aware that the 60D sensor is spring-loaded, so you'll need to measure it's position very accurately, or you'll have a tilted sensor when you reassemble.

Earlier DSLR's before the 500D had sensor tilt adjusted with thin shims, very easy to put those back and preserve the sensor position.

Michael

Of course I would buy a camera that's more difficult to mod but having it done professionally is so darn expensive. You mentioned in your previous post that you're not convinced full spectrum mods are good to do so was wondering why that is. Sounds like you recommend removal of just the Ha filter but that could still cause sensor tilt without precise re-adjustment correct?

[michael8554]

6 hours ago, Scorpius said:

You mentioned in your previous post that you're not convinced full spectrum mods are good to do so was wondering why that is.

Thought I'd explained that - Star Bloat on Refractors, and additionally the retained filter preserves the Dust Removal function, and protects the sensor.

6 hours ago, Scorpius said:

removal of just the Ha filter but that could still cause sensor tilt

Yes, which ever mod you do, when you reinstall the sensor, the difference in height of the three sensor mounting points, as set up in the factory,  has to be maintained to prevent tilt.

This is the best description of modding Canon DSLRs,  IMO.

http://dslrmodifications.com/rebelmod450d1.html

Michael

[Scream]

On 01/12/2020 at 16:46, Scorpius said:

Of course I would buy a camera that's more difficult to mod but having it done professionally is so darn expensive. You mentioned in your previous post that you're not convinced full spectrum mods are good to do so was wondering why that is. Sounds like you recommend removal of just the Ha filter but that could still cause sensor tilt without precise re-adjustment correct?

I don't really use forums like this so forget to come back and check responses, especially since you might never get one or sometimes they're hours or days later. Anyway. I've decided to have mine modded. I'm getting full spectrum done because I like the idea of being able to create cool daytime pictures if I want through the use of filters. I contemplated the idea of doing it myself but as said above mine was also spring and I didn't fancy breaking the camera after spending so much on it. Plus there were other areas that I thought if it went wrong then it is busted. The camera was used but pretty much like new and only had just under 4K shutter count and is rated for a total of 100K so if my camera was a beast and got there (unlikely) then I have 96K left. Seemed like the right choice having someone else who does it for a job to do it. That said I've sent it off now and I'm expecting it to take about two weeks before I get it back, five days max shipping, three days modification, five-seven days shipping back. I may or may not be back to share my experience or images. I'm trying to get into the hobby so it might take me a while before I have anything of use.

[dark knight]

After you receive it back a quick review of the company doing the conversion would be very welcome, I'm looking at getting my canon 6d converted for astro

[malc-c]

Performed surgery on my 400d a few years back... removed all filters.  It's a bit daunting at first, but if you take your time and be careful it's fairly straight forward.

 

[Jm1973]

On 01/12/2020 at 00:39, MarsG76 said:

I modded it myself...

I cooled the sensor by cutting to shape and adding a copper plate to the back of the sensor that comes out of the side of the camera. The plate sticking out of the DSLR body has two peltier coolers (with heatsyncs) attached to freeze the copper plate, effectively "sucking" out the heat from the sensor... 

 

My last version cooled the sensor by 18°C below ambience, so I was falling below freezing on nights that were 15°C and initially I did have a problem with dew destroying my main PCB. On subsequent versions I protected the main PCB with hot glue, used some absorption strips inside the DSLR body to fill out the gaps to soak up any moisture from cooling and used expanding foam to fill in around active cooling openings to stop moisture from entering the camera.
 

I added a thin temperature sensor in between the copper plate and the sensor as well as another sensor embedded inside the expanding foam right next to the peltier on the active cooling side to get a accurate reading of the sensor and cooler temperatures. The cooler side dropped to -15°C during the 15°C night. 

At one point the front of the DSLR sensor frosted over so now I wrap a heat strip around the T-Ring/front of the DSLR which stops that... since these condensation protection additions, I did not have a single issue with the DSLR on many nights during the year where the sensor was at 1-2°C (controlled with a temperature controller), usually around 5°C below the dew point... but my subs are virtually noise free and have a much cleaner and crisper look to them.... even the 1800 second subs have almost no noise.

 

 

That is bloody amazing!

How much does it weigh with all the additional cooling stuff?

Do you mind if I ask how much it all cost as well please?

I'm trying to work out whether this would be cheaper than buying something like an ASI294MC-Pro.

[MarsG76]

On 07/12/2020 at 08:44, Jm1973 said:

How much does it weigh with all the additional cooling stuff?

Do you mind if I ask how much it all cost as well please?

I'm trying to work out whether this would be cheaper than buying something like an ASI294MC-Pro.

From memory the weight of everything was about a bit over a kilo.... but when I get a chance, I'll weigh it and amend this message. I do not have any issues with balancing.

I searched on eBay for old 40D bodies and found them between $100-$140... the peltier cooler kits were $15 ea, the copper plate was $20 and the controller was about $9. A can of expanding foam and a 12V 50A PSU to power the cooling was also needed. After about $250 and quite a few hours of work I ended up with this "Cool 40D".

Definitely cheaper than the 294MC, and I'd love to compare the cooled DSLR to a dedicated astro cam using the same equipment to see just how much difference there is in reality... like I said, my 40D delivered virtually noise free (upto 1800s) subs.

 

[Jm1973]

8 hours ago, MarsG76 said:

From memory the weight of everything was about a bit over a kilo.... but when I get a chance, I'll weigh it and amend this message. I do not have any issues with balancing.

I searched on eBay for old 40D bodies and found them between $100-$140... the peltier cooler kits were $15 ea, the copper plate was $20 and the controller was about $9. A can of expanding foam and a 12V 50A PSU to power the cooling was also needed. After about $250 and quite a few hours of work I ended up with this "Cool 40D".

Definitely cheaper than the 294MC, and I'd love to compare the cooled DSLR to a dedicated astro cam using the same equipment to see just how much difference there is in reality... like I said, my 40D delivered virtually noise free (upto 1800s) subs.

 

Very tempted to try this. Not quite sure I've got the skillset to do it. I can solder a bit. And I've got a glue gun! 🤣

[Jm1973]

I can see several 40D bodies that have sold for around £60 to £70 on ebay. Some even cheaper.

Did you follow a guide or anything when you built this? Or did you just wing it?

Edited December 8, 2020 by Jm1973

[MarsG76]

On 08/12/2020 at 22:40, Jm1973 said:

I can see several 40D bodies that have sold for around £60 to £70 on ebay. Some even cheaper.

Did you follow a guide or anything when you built this? Or did you just wing it?

I researched as much as I could before attempting to mod than cool the camera... 

its not difficult, only time consuming and delicate... so you can't rush it.. take your time and be extra careful when ever prying anything apart..

By the way, my complete camera with the temperature controller and cooler weighs 1827g.