What is my best dobsonian option in your opinion?

[Mihai]

Hello everyone,

 

After finally managing to get some good views of Jupiter and Saturn from my back yard, which blew my girlfriend's mind, I think we're ready to upgrade from our Sky-Watcher Heritage-130P Flextube.

Given the amount of options available on the market and the decent budget I have set aside for this (approx. £1,000), I was wondering what your thoughs are on the options listed below:

1. Orion SkyQuest XT10 PLUS - After reading quite a lot about mirrors, bases, add-ons and other paraphernalia, I feel like this would be the best option at the moment. Although its price (£746 with free shipping) is lower than the aforementioned budget, I would be getting some additional stuff with it. A RACI finder scope, a padded case for the OTA (in order to avoid decollimation) and, eventually, some ES 82º Series Eyepieces that I've had my eye on for a while (I understand they are quite good value for the money).
2. Explore Scientific Ultra Light 12" Dobsonian (Gen II) - Although this is just a bit above budget (£1,063 + £7.50 shipping) and the truss design gives me some pause (regarding the ease of setup, the need to constantly recollimate and the potential need for a shroud - as I live close to Manchester's light polluted center), I've read that they improved quite a few things with the 2nd generation. The light gathering capabilities would obviously be better but it would mean that I would have to give up on the RACI and the eyepieces, at least for now. Also, given that I live in Manchester and the weather and light pollution are usually terrible, I'm not sure how often I would manage to get it to a proper dark site with clear skies. What do you think?
3. GSO 10" Deluxe Dobsonian - Very similar to my first option with some obvious differences and a highr price (£720 + £93 shipping). I read that GSOs tend to have better mounts (would have to get counterweigths for the Orion) but thier mirrors tend to have poorer optics (at least when it cmes to coatings). However, the GSO does come with a CI finder scope (not right-angle though) and a mirror fan included. Although, the Orion build looks to be of better quality and that colour is just amazing. Choices...choices...
4. GSO 12" Deluxe Dobsonian - Same as the above but larger and close to the upper limit of the budget (£920 + £86 shipping). The only things that I see counting as minuses would be the mirror coating quality, the sheer size and weight of a full 12" tube (especially not knowing how often it would see dark and clear skies), as well as the higher price point that would impede the initial purchase of better eyepieces and other add-ons.

Those are the options I currently have my eye on and, while I know that some brands and models were overlooked (*cough* SkyWatcher *cough*), the reason I narrowed it down to these 4 is mostly because they all have a dual-speed focuser and seem to be of better overall quality. Please correct me if I am wrong or if you have any other options that I might have overlooked.

Thank you all in advance for your comments and input!

 

Clear skies,

Mihai

[johninderby]

Well as you have linked to mass market dobs and not high end ones I’ll just recommend another mass market dob.

 the Bresser Messier 10” dob. Great build quality and a great focuser that’s better than any of the focusers on any of the other 10” dobs you’ve linked to. The 1:10 fine focus is an option but very easy to fit and well worth getting. Proper bearings as well and as the OTA is mounted using tube rings you can rotate the OTA to put the focuser in the best position and also move the OTA up and down for balancing.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-10-dobsonian-telescope.html

BTW the Orion USA scopes tend to be overpriced in this country as there is no UK distributor so you are paying more than you need to. Also the GSO scopes are overpriced as they are shipped from Germany usually. Telescope House used to sell them and they were very keenly priced. The 10” Revelation (GSO deluxe) sold for £478.00.

I replaced the base on mine with a taller one made from marine ply which is more durable than the melamine covered mdf.

Edited July 28, 2020 by johninderby

[Mihai]

On 28/07/2020 at 18:38, johninderby said:

Well as you have linked to mass market dobs and not high end ones I’ll just recommend another mass market dob.

 the Bresser Messier 10” dob. Great build quality and a great focuser that’s better than any of the focusers on any of the other 10” dobs you’ve linked to. The 1:10 fine focus is an option but very easy to fit and well worth getting. Proper bearings as well and as the OTA is mounted using tube rings you can rotate the OTA to put the focuser in the best position and also move the OTA up and down for balancing.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-10-dobsonian-telescope.html

BTW the Orion USA scopes tend to be overpriced in this country as there is no UK distributor so you are paying more than you need to. Also the GSO scopes are overpriced as they are shipped from Germany usually. Telescope House used to sell them and they were very keenly priced. The 10” Revelation (GSO deluxe) sold for £478.00.

I replaced the base on mine with a taller one made from marine ply which is more durable than the melamine covered mdf.

Hi @johninderby! Thank you very much for the input.

Do you know of any high end dobs that might fit my budget? I am willing to go a bit higher for a really good one.

As for the Bresser, I have also considered it, however I read in multiple posts and articles that the generic R&P focusers are subpar compared to the Crayfords. As for your setup, that mount looks very nice. Have you added any teflon pads for the tube rings to side a bit better?

Thanks again and have a great evening!

[johninderby]

The Bresser has a great CNC r&p 2.5”  focuser that is much better than the low end crayfords on the Orion and GSO dobs. Very high quality and not to be cofused with cheap r&p focusers.

Here is the same focuser with the optional 1:10 fine focus.

https://www.telescopehouse.com/explore-scientific-2-5-hex-focuser-with-1-10-gear-reduction.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwuTl3Ifz6gIVm-vtCh2ILQrkEAAYASAAEgKhyPD_BwE

The bearings come with teflon pads.

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by johninderby

[Whistlin Bob]

Hi Mihai- glad to hear what a good time you're having with your 130. If you're enjoying that, then a larger dob will really do it for you...

Have you considered a second hand purchase? Most amateurs seen to take good care of their equipment, and with a dob, unless it's mistreated, there isn't a lot to go wrong. 

I was in your position a couple of years ago and eventually opted for a 3rd hand (at least) truss 14" Orion USA that I found on Astro Buy and Sell with a few extra bits for £800. I was able to check it out before purchase and it has paid me back many times over in fabulous views and awesome sessions. At my Bortle 5 home it blows my 200p out of the water, at a dark site (sadly only a few trips in that time) it is a wonder. It's needed a bit of maintenance but it has been a fantastic purchase. With the experience you already have you'll know what to look for and if you're patient you're sure to find a similar (if not better) bargain.

[Mihai]

5 minutes ago, johninderby said:

The Bresser has a great CNC r&p 2.5”  focuser that is very high quality and not to be cofused with cheap r&p focusers.

The bearings come with teflon pads.

 

Oh, ok! That looks great!

I was under the impression that the focuser is not a dual speed one. Is that an extra option on it? If so, how would I go about getting that from FLO?

Thanks again for all the info. It's really appreciated!

[johninderby]

Yes the dual speed is an option but only takes a couple of minutes to install.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-1-10-gear-set-for-hex-focuser.html

[Mihai]

Just found it myself! Thanks again

That acually changes my plans, as the scope does seem to have a fantastic build quality.

How did you feel about the original MDF base? Is it any good?

Cheers!

[johninderby]

The Bresser base was pretty much the same quality as the Skywatcher or GSO. Seemed solid enough to me but I wanted something taller and the marine ply  base will probably outlast me. 🙂

And does look rather good I think. 😁

Edited July 29, 2020 by johninderby

[Mihai]

It does indeed! Great subtle laquer finish on it.

Did you make it yourself, John?

Was also wondering about your finder scope and telrad. What are those upgrades you have on there?

Edited July 29, 2020 by Mihai

[johninderby]

Yes. Made from marine ply and finished with Osmo oil finish that it tougher than polyurethane when it cures.

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by johninderby

[Mihai]

@johninderby, I was also wondering about the secondary mirror. Does it have screws on knobs?

Also, what about your finder scope. I see you've upgraded it and was wondering what that is, besides the telrad.

Thank you again!

[johninderby]

The 10” has collimation knobs on the secondary but the 8” has screws.’

You just need A Badder finder shoe which is a straight bolt on replacement for the stock finder shoe. The mounting holes on the Bresser shoe are too far apart to be able to use a Skywatcher shoe but the Badder shoe has slots in it which are wide enough. 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/baader-universal-quick-release-finder-shoe-base.html

This RACI finder is cheap bit pretty good.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/astro-essentials-9x50-right-angled-erecting-finderscope.html

I have a Lumicon Super Finder on my dob simply becasue I had it sitting around. Bit heavy though but not a problem on the dob.

If you fit a Telrad you need to sand a bit off one corner of the base for it to clear the Baader finder shoe. Not much, just a few mm.

Edited July 29, 2020 by johninderby

[Mihai]

Fantastic!

Thank you so much, John. I think you swayed me, as this is very much within my budget and there's plenty of room left for eyepieces and other upgrades.

Btw, since I have you here, I was also wondering what your thoughts are on the ES 82º Series Eyepieces. Would you recommend something else?

What about Manual Setting Circles? As I am mostly an astronomy virgin and cannot star hop, I also had that planned for whichever dob I was going to get.

Thanks a million!

L.E. What do you do if you want to take it to a dark side? Any padded cases for the OTA?

Edited July 29, 2020 by Mihai

[johninderby]

The ES etoeces are very good and would work well but there are many others to choose from. I like the Nirvana 82 eyepices. A bargain for eyepieces that are very close to,the ES. Pity they only do a 4mm, 7mm and 16mm.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/ovl-nirvana-es-uwa-82-ultrawide-eyepieces.html

Perhaps the Nirvanas for the shorter focal lengths and a longer focal length ES for widefield.

I use a Televue 3-6 zoom, a Pentax XW 5mm and the 7mm and 16mm Nirvana mainly.

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by johninderby

[Mihai]

Thanks agian, John. Was wondering if you use any loger focal lenghts for DSOs, something above a 16mm.

Also, any padded cases for when you take your dob to a dark site?

Cheers

[johninderby]

Had an Aero 30 which was really good but that was only 70 degrees. An ES 30 would be very good.

My favourite longer focal length eyepiece is the now discontinued 26mm Nagler. There is one on Astrobuysell right now can’t afford it at the moment

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=163728

I just use an old duvet on the back seat of the car and seatbelt fastened atound it. Just have never bothered with carry bags for bigger dobs.

’

Edited July 30, 2020 by johninderby

[Mihai]

Awesome!

Thanks again for all the details, John. It's really appreciated!

I will give the guys from FLO a call today to see if it's in stock

[johninderby]

Pretty well everywhere is out of stock of the Bresser 10” dob. You might try Rother Valley Optics to see if they have one.

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/bresser-messier-10-dobsonian-telescope.html

[Mihai]

Oh, dang! I emailed them now and will see what thye say.

Found it here at an even lower price with free shipping: https://www.bristolcameras.co.uk/p-bresser-messier-10-inch-dobsonian-telescope.htm

Do you know anything about Bristol Cameras? Are they any good?

Cheers!

[Pixies]

5 minutes ago, Mihai said:

Oh, dang! I emailed them now and will see what thye say.

Found it here at an even lower price with free shipping: https://www.bristolcameras.co.uk/p-bresser-messier-10-inch-dobsonian-telescope.htm

Do you know anything about Bristol Cameras? Are they any good?

Cheers!

Yes - they are very reputable and known for Astro stuff.

[johninderby]

The only problem with Bristol Camers is that they are a camera shop and get astro gear in to order so won’t be able to offer the level of after sales service that a proper astro shop can. Somewhere like FLO or RotherValleyOptics are slightly more expensive but have great after sales sevice. 

They are a reputable shop though.

Edited July 30, 2020 by johninderby

[Mihai]

Aha! Makes sense.

Will try RVO first and if they don't have it I'll give BC a call as well.

Thank you both

[Pixies]

Worth checking Telescope House too. They are Bresser UK, effectively. I think they will be able to give a good indication of when the next shipments are due to arrive.

[Mihai]

3 minutes ago, Pixies said:

Worth checking Telescope House too. They are Bresser UK, effectively. I think they will be able to give a good indication of when the next shipments are due to arrive.

What's weird is that they don't seem to have the Bresser Dobs on thier website: https://www.telescopehouse.com/telescopes/telescopes-by-type/dobsonian-telescopes.html

Even if you check the Bresser Telescopes only, they are missing: https://www.telescopehouse.com/telescopes/telescopes-by-brand/brand-bresser-telescopes.html