Alpaca

[MCinAZ]

So as not to hijack Dr_Ju_Ju's ASCOM-6.5 release thread, I'll start a new one. As stash_old noted, alpaca allows for operation across different machines and architectures. Beside CCDCEIL, Bob Denny reported in a recent YouTube video that OPTEC has networked focusers which are supported by alpaca.

What's not clear to me is whether an alpaca driver works on a Windows PC under ASCOM. If not, i.e., a device running in a Windows environment would need an ASCOM driver, but in order for the same device to work in a Linux or MACos environment it would require a separate alpaca driver, then I don't see much future for alpaca. It's basically just doing what INDI set out to do 15 years ago. After all that time, I don't know of a single device which has a factory-supported INDI driver. While there are certainly INDI drivers for some hardware devices, virtually all were written by (usually unpaid) third parties. Few manufacturers will be willing to develop and support separate ASCOM and  alpaca drivers so long as Windows/ASCOM dominate the amateur market.

One of the other near-requirements for alpaca is that devices be interconnected through Ethernet rather than across USB. While this has many merits, the vast majority of existing hardware devices utilize USB, and I don't see that changing too quickly.

[rrb24]

Watch this from 4:40 or so.  Bob explains how Alpaca works in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip3t09hWdjE&t=21023s

Edited July 17, 2020 by rrb24

[stash_old]

15 hours ago, MCinAZ said:

single device which has a factory-supported INDI driver.

Zwo for one -  thats what ZWO use in ASIAIR(Pro) - hence they support all the ZWO camera's as they use the ZWO supplied API/SDK for Linux !

[stash_old]

IMO as I have stated before the problem is not Ascom std but the comms layer as this relies on Serial or USB coommunications neither of which is a network protocol , run across neworks or run long distances - without some hardware/software converters - e.g. usb over ip ,Virtual Serial emulators etc

Sky Watcher and Robert Brown WiFi Focuser are the only 2 OEM's (that I know of!) who support ASCOM via IP or UDP. E.G. you can run Synscan App Pro on a remote Winodws PC(mini and the like) but use the SW Synscan Mobile Ascom driver on another Windows PC allowing CDC,APT etc to control the mount which is not connected to the same PC.

Doesn't requires Ascom on both PC's (Roberts doesn't require a 2nd PC at all as it use ESP32 Wifi and his own Ascom driver that has IP built in) and no Alpaca required - both therefore are very simple to set up and run very well. 

 

[skybadger]

Any device using alpaca to implement ascom can run over IP : alpaca is a rest protocol so is expected to be hosted in a web server and accessed over TCP. 

My devices are esp8266 Wi-Fi devices hosting a web server and the attached hardware.. you can do this on Linux, python, anything so ascom isn't limited anymore.

Indi didn't have the penetration and inhabits the same world as TCs and RTCS but as we have seen , indi works well as a Pi subsystem integrated into the greater whole that tends to be ascom. 

[stash_old]

2 hours ago, skybadger said:

Any device using alpaca to implement ascom can run over IP : alpaca is a rest protocol so is expected to be hosted in a web server and accessed over TCP. 

My devices are esp8266 Wi-Fi devices hosting a web server and the attached hardware.. you can do this on Linux, python, anything so ascom isn't limited anymore.

Indi didn't have the penetration and inhabits the same world as TCs and RTCS but as we have seen , indi works well as a Pi subsystem integrated into the greater whole that tends to be ascom. 

Yes but not simply (end user style not geek level) , Ascom Alpaca is a pain to set up IMO - hence the very very slow uptake. Indi works well on more than just PI - any Linux box and of course MAC. Why do I want a Web server and another protocol layer (REST) when Ascom and Indi are messagenging standards not comms std's.  Sorry IMHO Alpaca will not take off (famous last words 🙂 ) Alpaca is an Addon to solve a comms problem.  

Indi is far more versitile IMHO and supports many many more hardware products across more OS NOW - not just PI !.  

"Ascom isn't limited anymore"  - The main part  of Ascom still only runs on and only on Windows - end of story!  Maybe someone will port Ascom to Linux etc 🙂

I grant you Indi can be "flakey" in some area's but ask anyone on SGL about Ascom/Windows/USB(both native and serial convertion) problems  - a good number of people have had many frustrating issues over long periods. An example - Prolific/CH340 (and others) chips that dont support unique serial numbers.

I think we say have to agree we have an healthy difference of opinion 🙂

But time will tell and good luck to whatever route people choose 🙂

[skybadger]

6 hours ago, stash_old said:

Yes but not simply (end user style not geek level) , Ascom Alpaca is a pain to set up IMO - hence the very very slow uptake. Indi works well on more than just PI - any Linux box and of course MAC. Why do I want a Web server and another protocol layer (REST) when Ascom and Indi are messagenging standards not comms std's.  Sorry IMHO Alpaca will not take off (famous last words 🙂 ) Alpaca is an Addon to solve a comms problem.  

Indi is far more versitile IMHO and supports many many more hardware products across more OS NOW - not just PI !.  

"Ascom isn't limited anymore"  - The main part  of Ascom still only runs on and only on Windows - end of story!  Maybe someone will port Ascom to Linux etc 🙂

I grant you Indi can be "flakey" in some area's but ask anyone on SGL about Ascom/Windows/USB(both native and serial convertion) problems  - a good number of people have had many frustrating issues over long periods. An example - Prolific/CH340 (and others) chips that dont support unique serial numbers.

I think we say have to agree we have an healthy difference of opinion 🙂

But time will tell and good luck to whatever route people choose 🙂

That's fair enough, I'm not evangelising ascom, just explaining the benefits of ALPACA to ASCOM. Indi has its faults and hardware in general on every os uses connectors and drivers that are the root of many issues that get attributed to the platform. 

I do disagree that is a pain to setup, I found it rather easy. We may have quite different setups. 

🔭