All Sky Camera - a newbie's journey

[vineyard]

Hello,

At @Skipper Billysuggestion I'm starting this as a new thread so that other threads don't get hijacked!  Its also a good way for me to track my own thinking on this.

So, where I live the houses & flats are quite tall - which means only limited patches of sky visible (enough to keep me occupied but not enough for an ASC in or near the garden).  However, get up to the roof and its a different story.  Huge sky in all directions (only obstructions being chimneys) - with nice views of distant skyscrapers too.

I currently have an ASI178MC (which comes with a 170degree lens) and am hoping at some stage to move to a cooled camera.  Which of course leaves open the possibility of an ASC.

I'm v much at early stages so here is my current deliberating.  (Hopefully this journey will eventually complete - although there's no rush as I need the 178 for my normal AP practicing still).

1.  Don't really want to buy off the shelf finished product - where's the fun in that.

2.  @Gina's blog is an amazing starting point (thank you!).  I don't have the sophistication for all of that yet (it'd be a fun learning curve?).  And what I notice is that all those items add up to quite a total.

3.  Permanent or mobile?  That's the first Q.

4.  If permanent, then I need to figure out getting power, temperature control, and of course data-retrieval.  One possibility that comes to mind is having a camera put in on top of a chimney pot with the dome over it, and running the USB down the flue!  Total height is too long for a normal USB cable, but maybe a Startech style solution of having USB2 over Cat5/Cat6 extender?  The remote USB2 can then power the camera & a dew heater, and and bring the data back.  Those cables can transmit 300mA of current to the remote side - an uncooled ASI178MC apparently runs at 170mA, and a dew heater module like this (via Gina!) runs 0.23A, so that would total to 400mA though - will that discrepancy be too large?  For cooling, if the dome is on top of a chimney, those typically have good thermal stability characteristics (as long as made of earthenware or something like that), and if the bottom is open (eg: the camera & USB2 remote hub sitting on a tough open mesh of heat resistant plastic) then the air column in the chimney flue would take heat away sufficiently to avoid overheating?

• The Cat5/6 extender will be pricey, but compared to everything else that is needed and if it can be got 2nd hand, maybe that's still cheaper?
• As an aside on this, is it possible to coat a dome with anti-UV, anti-IR film (a bit like filters!) to cut down on energy ingress?
• This way, the base USB hub can be connected to an RPi which can also be removed & used for other things when needed?  And data retrieval v easy.

6.  If that won't work (and the downside is that the camera is v difficult to retrieve), then something mobile in a box.  That can only be put up in the evening & retrieved in the morning (and can of course be put in different locations or taken on travels).  So a normal power source like a mobile phone charger pack, or a Tracer (since everything can be unboxed and used), to power the RPi, the camera & the dew heater?

• Can solar panels be used to provide enough charging to a battery that can power this?
• If not, can a junction box type of setup be used where the charging point for a battery, and a USB point for a pen drive (for data) can be accessed from the outside (say by rotating or folding up waterproof flaps) so that the box would not need opening up unless for dramatic maintenance?
• Can a more basic RPi (like a Zero) be used to sufficiently drive the image collection & retrieval - b/c that would allow it to be permanently left in the box - although a 3 isn't that pricey anyway to be fair.  I'm not sure whether EKOS or Stellarmate would work on anything less than a 3 though, so maybe then other software would need to be used (like some of the other threads on SGL) - if so which would be most stable?  If a Pi3 then can a Stellarmate licence be used on multiple RPis?

Ill stop there for the time being.  I have no idea how far this idea will go for me, or how long it will take!  But I know the views from the v top of the roof are quite something (if I could perch a small wide-angle permanent set-up, like an astrokraken & a wide-angle lens, on a the roof of a flat dormer I would but that ambition is way beyond my current level of expertise!).

Stay well all,

Vin

Edited June 20, 2020 by vineyard
corrections

[pete_l]

Have you considered POE - power over ethernet?

One issue with long USB cables is the resistance of the cables leads to voltage loss. You might be injecting 5V at 400mA into the cable, but what comes out could easily be only 4 volts! Watch this Youtube video from the guy with the Swiss accent for an illuminating (if worrying) explanation.

But POE operates at 48 Volts. It can easily provide 10 Watts at the remote end - possibly 20!. You need to down-convert that voltage to 12V or 5V to feed your equipment and you can use either WiFi or ethernet for communication.

[festoon]

One point about location...I’d advise you place the ASC somewhere accessible so the dome can be cleaned without too much stress. Birds can make a real mess if they decide it’s a good perching point!

[vineyard]

Thanks all.  So I managed to spend some time on the roof yesterday afternoon - had to fix something anyway, and took some test shots from different locations.  Definitive conclusion: its got to be mobile.  The chimney pot would be extremely inaccessible and the image framing gains wouldn't be that great, whereas with a mobile box, I can put in different locations (including in a cradle like a satellite dish is mounted on) and actually get some interesting foreground features too.  That did get me thinking of more Qs but I will post those later as running late!

Cheers & stay safe,

Vin

[Skipper Billy]

I built mine with an RPi4 in a box along with the camera and a dew heater and used Thomas's software.

The only cable to it is 12v power - I use a leisure battery but it could equally be a 12c DC power supply and you could run that up a chimney no problem at all.

I access it wirelessly using 'Putty' and RDP. I can access the Rpi desktop and easily download files etc.

 

 

 

[Jkulin]

I have set mine up with VNC to change any settings then use the GUI front end via my web browser to download files, it really is very easy.

I haven’t worked out how to ftp the files as it means leaving it open and my provider only leaves the access open for a limited time.

Apart from the fact that I haven’t worked out how to do the settings on the RPi for FTP.