Need Help With Gift for Daughter Please Advise

[Annabeththompson]

Hello Everyone, 

I am completely new to this. The reason I am here is that my daughter is turning 6 and she loves space. I wanted to get a star named after her and give her a telescope to find the star. First off, how likely is it that we would be able to find said star and if so what telescope should I get in order to do this best at the lowest price possible? Thank you so much for your time and thought on this. I really appreciate it.

 

[Dr Strange]

I am very sorry to have to say this but those "star registry" organizations are not legitimate. They do not have the authority to name a star after someone. Only the International Astronomical Union can do that. Here is a link for more information on it:

https://www.iau.org/public/themes/buying_star_names/

However even at 6 a young lady can enjoy the stars and astronomy as a hobby. I would suggest buying her a copy of Turn Right At Orion and reading it with her. I would also suggest the Skywatcher Heritage  76mm telescope for £48. It is ideal for someone her size and he can see many of the things in the book as well as the moon, Saturn, and Jupiter. A fun way to spend evenings together. A link to it is here:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/all-telescopes/skywatcher-heritage-76-mini-dobsonian.html

That is a 76mm scope so it isn't very big but it is a good starting place. 

If she (or you) are more passionate about things then the Skywatcher Heritage 130 is a better option. More expensive at £142 but both of you will see quite a bit more stuff in much better detail and brightness but it is still manageable by her. 

[Dr Strange]

Oh I need to add: Please stay away from the department store telescopes. They tend to be big disappointments promising quite a bit but not delivering anything close to those promises. This site's sponsor, First Light Optics, is the best place to purchase from and their staff are very very helpful and knowledgeable. So much so that even though I am in the US I buy from them when they have something I need and my local shop doesn't. Their customer service cannot be beat! 

Another good resource for you and your daughter is the NASA/JPL Solar System Ambassador web page. I am a SSA myself and do (up until the current pandemic) quite a bit of STEM based outreach for kids as a part of the SSA program. While a US focused organization there are a lot of resources available to everyone in the world. The site is here:

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/solar-system-ambassadors/events/

[Annabeththompson]

Thank you so much for responding-it means so much to me! I had a feeling that the companies may not be legally legitimate or legitimate at all in any case I suppose- but I thought that it at least may be documented somewhere so that it feels like it is her specific star that “belongs to her” in a sense. She is so young I wasn’t sure if it mattered but was still very concerned with picking the one that was at least the first company to do this, and you have shown me just what I needed to know! These telescopes that you have shown me too are much less expensive than I could have thought possible while having them still be a useful product. I am so excited! The books sound absolutely fabulous too! Thank you again for all of your help & best of luck and good health to you!
 

With Respect & Appreciation,

Anna Beth Thompson Draghicescu 

[Dr Strange]

Happy to help Anna Beth!

By the way those companies are not illegal and they do pick a star, put a name on it, then keep a record of that name somewhere. However the only people who can actually name a star that is recognized internationally by all bodies and peoples is the IAU. 

At 6 those two scopes are very good options. As she gets older and if she keeps her interest or if you decide you want to get something more "useful" then there are many other options that are more expensive but will do a lot more out there. Start small and see if the interest stays. If it does just come back and we will be happy to help!

Carson

[Girders]

That's good advice you've been given, but I'd add a few thoughts from my experience with my daughter (4 when we got a scope and now 6).

My scope is a small 114mm dobsonian scope and for me that's the minimum size to give satisfactory results for a kid (and lots of adults).  Even with that the planets are tiny and I can just about make out Saturn's rings and hints of Jupiter's bands.  In order to see this you need to be looking at high magnification - and the planets will quickly drift across the eyepiece and out of view.  It's quite a skill to 'nudge' or move the scope to keep the target object in view - and a hard skill for even older kids to master.  If you can stretch money-wise to a telescope with a tracking mount it makes things much easier if you find the planet or star and it will still be in view when you let your daughter have a look.

The other thing I have learned - and wish I'd really understood before hand - is just how rarely the telescope can be used by young children.  So often the best time to view the planets is silly-o'clock in the middle of the night.  And depending on where you are the nights with good weather are few and far between.  In two years I've probably managed about 30 nights out - but only half a dozen or so of those have been at a time I could have my daughter out with me - and probably only three or four times she saw more than the moon.  Smaller and less expensive scopes at the 76mm size will be fine for the moon and using lower magnification it won't drift out of view so quickly.  It's a brilliant hobby for any space mad kid, but please have realistic expectations of what you can easily do - and assess your spending accordingly.  

I'd also just point you in the direction of other ways you can help your daughter's interest in space stuff.  I've bought mine a couple of small meteorite fragments that she loves holding and looking at.  And these can be got relatively inexpensively: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/meteorites.html and for me would be a better option than a "name a star" certificate.

But in the end, you know your daughter best as to what level of interest she's likely to have and maintain, and seriously well done for wanting to help with her interest and for coming here and asking all the right questions!

And if you aren't already watching Maddie & Greg Go Live on Youtube make sure she watches all their "Mission Space" shows from a couple of weeks back - I'm not ashamed to say that I learned more than a couple of things!

Good Luck!

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Girders
typo

[cletrac1922]

Anna

Welcome from Land Down Under

I echo Dr Strange comments about department store scopes

For viewing, you cannot go past Skywatcher 8'' or 10'' Dob

Easy to use and set up

The attached pic is of my 10'' Flex Dob, with 8'' in the background, taken at a club public viewing night

John

 

 

[Annabeththompson]

Thank you so much for all of your help-I really came to the right place! You guys are so kind and knowledgeable!

[Annabeththompson]

Question 1- I keep seeing telescopes that say they have a refractor. What does that mean and should I get one that has it? Question 2- I had been looking for the best all around telescope that can see deeply into space, or that could at least as I had said, find particular stars. If it can see farther, does that mean it is better? And the farther it can see, does that mean that the quality of the view has a chance at being lower because of it? I will almost definitely end up getting one of the telescopes that you guys recommend because I am completely in the dark other than for the light that you nice people have shed for me on this subject.

[johninderby]

Have a read of this guide to beginners telescopes. Should help with the basics.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes.html

Also

https://optcorp.com/blogs/astronomy/the-basic-telescope-types

Edited April 29, 2020 by johninderby

[Dr Strange]

16 minutes ago, Annabeththompson said:

Question 1- I keep seeing telescopes that say they have a refractor. What does that mean and should I get one that has it? Question 2- I had been looking for the best all around telescope that can see deeply into space, or that could at least as I had said, find particular stars. If it can see farther, does that mean it is better? And the farther it can see, does that mean that the quality of the view has a chance at being lower because of it? I will almost definitely end up getting one of the telescopes that you guys recommend because I am completely in the dark other than for the light that you nice people have shed for me on this subject.

There are two types of telescope. Refracting and reflecting.

Refracting telescopes uses lenses like in what is in a telephoto camera lens to magnify an object. There are achromatic (achro) and apochromatic (apo) refractors. A achro refractor has two lenses in it. There are three primary colors of light. Red, green, and blue. A achro focuses two of these colors at the same point and the third a bit behind it. This can cause some false color that can be yellow or purple and the focus on an object is slightly soft. A apo refractor has three lenses in it and focuses the three colors of light in the same spot. Because an apo has more lenses that have to be properly matched together to focus those three colors of light they are more expensive than achro's but do not have the false color or soft focus.  

Reflecting telescopes use mirrors to do what a refracting telescope does. They are much less expensive to make than a achro or apo refracting telescope and can be made in larger sizes than refractors. In essence you get more for your money visually with a reflecting telescope than you do with a refracting one. 

It will come down to what you want to do and how much you want to spend. I initially gave you a couple of very affordable telescope examples (both reflectors) that can get you and your daughter started. In general the more aperture (size of the telescope) the more you will see. The rule of thumb is you want at least 150mm with 200mm being better for a reflector telescope for a beginner to see things beyond the moon, Jupiter, and Saturn. As I mentioned above the reflecting telescope will give you more for your money. A 200mm Skywatcher reflecting telescope is £289 and comes with eyepieces and other accessories. It is a large telescope but you can work with your daughter to use it. It does not have a computer to help you find things so you will need to learn to navigate by jumping from star to star. This is called star hopping. To do that effectively you should plan on spending about another £100 to get the additional items that will make star hopping easier. Those items would be a RACI (Right Angle Corrected Image which means you will not be putting your neck and head in awkward positions to look through the finderscope) finderscope to replace the straight through that the telescope comes with and something called a Telrad. It is a device that puts up a bulls eye target that you line up with a star and then move to the RACI for the next part of the star hop. That scope can be found here: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html

The scopes I recommended for you will get you views of DSO too but the 200mm scope above or even its sister telescope the 150 which costs £219 will be a better option than the ones I recommended if you are serious about the hobby and can afford it.

On the flip side a refractor telescope should be about 100+ mm in aperture for a beginner to see deep space objects (DSO) beyond the moon, Jupiter, and Saturn. If you like the idea of a refractor then the Skywatcher 120mm EVO Star is a great option. It is £269 but it too comes with eyepieces and everything else you need to view DSO and the planets including two eyepieces (EP). You will also need to buy a mount. The mount that will work acceptably with it and give you the ability to use your smart phone to tell the mount where to move the telescope so you can see things will be another £215. It is called the Skywatcher AZ-GTi. This will eliminate the need to spend the money on that RACI finderscope and Telrad because once you align the mount with two stars in the sky it knows where it is and will take you to the objects via its motors instead of you having to move it. It will also keep the object you are looking at in the eyepiece as the object moves instead of having to move the telescope that doesn't have motors like the Dob's. Moving the Dob's isn't hard to do but it does take some practice. 

Some will balk at this mount recommendation but I have used my AZ-GTi mount (that I bought from First Light Optics even though I am in the US) with a telescope that exceeds the 5kg recommended weight with the mount by a good margin and it worked fine. I love this mount. It really gives you a lot of value for your money. So to get the telescope and the mount you will be spending £484 instead of the £389 (assuming you get the RACI and Telrad). But there are bonuses to getting that £484 system. It will give you a fully computerized mount that will take you directly to things you want to see instead of having to hunt for them via star hopping and will keep the object in the EP without any intervention by you. For me this is a huge value add since I live in very heavy light pollution and star hopping is not very easy. 

The refractor telescope is here: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/evostar/skywatcher-evostar-120-ota.html

The AZ-GTi is here: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/alt-azimuth/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi-alt-az-mount-tripod.html

This is likely information overload and I apologize for that. I work a lot with children from K-12 and in my experience the scopes I am recommending work very well for them if a parent is involved if they are younger.

Also to further muddy the waters if you want a complete kit that doesn't hit the top end of the mount's weight limit that will do the job that the 150mm Dob will do then I would suggest the 127mm Newtonian with AZ-GTi for £359. It can be found here: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az-gti.html and is a great value for your money. 

[Dr Strange]

Sorry I forgot to answer the other part of your question. All telescope will see "far". They are like microscopes but in reverse. What matters is the perceived size of the object you are looking at and how bright it is. The more aperture you get the brighter the object will be and the perceived size will be bigger. So don't get wrapped around the axle over a telescope seeing "far". Think of it like this. The bigger the diameter of the telescope the brighter the object will be to your and your daughter's eyes and the bigger it will look to you. As I said for a reflecting telescope 150mm is the ideal starting point for a beginner but 127mm isn't bad either. For a refracting telescope 100mm is the bare minimum with 120mm being better.  

This assumes you get a telescope from a reputable dealer like First Light Optics and not from a department store. There is a reason why department stores sell these telescope and these telescopes boast about what they can do. It is an inexpensive product that will never deliver what you see on the box but will let you see the moon and the planets and some stars. It is made to a price point for a consumer that doesn't know any better. It is not that they are trying to cheat you. Only that it is an inexpensive item that is more a toy than a telescope. A telescope that will do what you want it to do is going to be more expensive because there is more materials and labor to make it thus a department store will not carry it because their customer base will not buy it. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Dr Strange

[JOC]

Following on from the above another positive point is that if you buy a smaller, but proper telescope from FLO, that it will probably only come with what is useful to the telescope in terms of eyepieces rather than coming with all sort of dross that you will pay for, but don't need and won't be able to use such as multiple eyepieces, things called 'barlows' (x3, x5 etc) with claims that these will increase you magnification by some many hundred times (many people have a x2 in due course, but the department store offerings are far more than is normally useable) - you probably won't get anything useful from the sort of telescope you will be looking at (even from FLO) above about 150-200 times magnification in the UK (I have an 8" Dobsonian like this one - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html and it's good to about x200, but if your budget didn't go that far something like this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html or even this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html  (which could last a lifetime of observing if looked after might usefully go to around  x150) )   For little more cash than the department stores or National Geographic style telescope and Proper telescope from FLO will provide a far more satisying experience.  You will get great views of the moon and also the planets coming up in the summer - your daughter might be blown away to see Jupiter's moons and the Saturn rings - which should be possible with those three I've linked to.   I can see Saturn's rings with a gap between the ring and the planet.  

The other thing that you may have not picked up on which is worth noting in as many words is that all telescopes also need an eyepiece.  It is the eyepieces that change the magnification from view ro view, not the telescopes.  With a FLO telescope like those linked to they will often come with two eyepieces one lower power and one a useable high power (you get high power in the department store ones, but it is not useable).  The eyepieces may not be brilliant (though mine actually were quite useable), but they will certainly suffice for early use and provide quite adequate views until you find out if the hobby works for you.  Then the recommended improvement is often an 8mm BST eyepiece- but you can find out more about those when you have the telescope 😉

[Dr Strange]

I wanted to mention that my favorite planet is Saturn. In the telescopes recommended after the ones I first recommended it looks just like a picture. As a matter of fact when my wife, who has zero interest in astronomy even though she is a tetrachromat*, saw Saturn the first time she looked in the EP, looked at me with a frown, looked in the EP again, looked at me again with a frown, looked in the EP a third time, then walked to the front of the telescope convinced I had attached a color picture in front of the telescope when she was looking through the EP.  It really can be that spectacular. 

 

 

* meaning she has a mutation in her eyes that let her see much more colors than we normal humans can and she can see color on DSO in a small telescope which is something 95% of us cannot do and of course me, the person who wants to see color on DSO's, can't but the person who has zero interest in astronomy can. 

[Louis D]

On 29/04/2020 at 00:31, Dr Strange said:

There are two types of telescope. Refracting and reflecting.

Technically, there is a third, hybrid type, catadioptric which uses a combination of lenses and mirrors such as SCTs and Maks.

[Dr Strange]

Yes SCT's and Mak's have a corrective lens to address aberrations but my understanding is they are still considered reflecting telescopes. Ergo that and my not wanting to add further confusion to the issue was why I didn't call that out specifically. 

As an aside, one of the best Mak's I ever worked with was the Explore Scientific David Levy Comet Hunter. Just took forever and a day to cool down enough that it was usable. Not sure if they are still made though... Skywatcher has some very nice but heavy Mak's too. 

And on another tangent, the SCT is considered the Swiss Army Knife of telescopes since it is a compact light weight for its size package, is quite capable both visually and for Astrophotography, isn't very expensive compared to other scopes though still more expensive than a Dob, and is easy to use. So if a Dob isn't to your liking another good option would be a 127mm, 150mm, or 200mm SCT package on a GOTO mount. GOTO means that it is a computerized mount with motors that will take you to objects after you align the mount to your night sky via the computer in the hand controller.