Best scope for a £400 budget

[Dean270]

Hey all,

 

Hope everyone is staying safe and well.

This is my first post so just trying to work my way around.

 

I've been looking at scopes within my budget for a few days now and struggling to understand what is best.

 

I am a beginner, live in a fairly un-(light)polluted sky with a budget up to £400. I'd like to do a little more than just moon gazing, so wanted something that is capable of a bit more distance, and look at doing some photography in the future.

 

What are everyone's thoughts?

 

[x6gas]

Hi Dean,

"photography in the future" is the bit that jumps out!  Most deep sky astrophotography (as opposed to lunar or planetary imaging) will require a GoTo computerised mount and mounts can cost more than telescopes!

The advice for beginners is often to go for a Dobsonian (which is a Newton reflector on a very basic manual mount).  That gives biggest bang for your buck in terms of the scope but will be limited in terms of astrophotography in the future.  The SkyWatcher Skyliner 200p would be a popular choice and you'd have £100 left over for some accessories.

However, you may wish to consider buying second hand.  I sold a very serviceable Celestron CG5-GT and a 150mm newton reflector on for under your budget a few months ago...  - check out the for sale board on here.  If you buy wisely then you won't lose much, if anything, if you decide to sell it on if (a) you decide the hobby isn't for you after all or (b) your appetite grows and you want to improve your kit.

Good luck and clear skies,

Ian

 

[Dean270]

Thanks Ian.

 

Anything to watch out for on the second hand market? Really want to avoid buying a dud.

19 minutes ago, x6gas said:

Hi Dean,

"photography in the future" is the bit that jumps out!  Most deep sky astrophotography (as opposed to lunar or planetary imaging) will require a GoTo computerised mount and mounts can cost more than telescopes!

The advice for beginners is often to go for a Dobsonian (which is a Newton reflector on a very basic manual mount).  That gives biggest bang for your buck in terms of the scope but will be limited in terms of astrophotography in the future.  The SkyWatcher Skyliner 200p would be a popular choice and you'd have £100 left over for some accessories.

However, you may wish to consider buying second hand.  I sold a very serviceable Celestron CG5-GT and a 150mm newton reflector on for under your budget a few months ago...  - check out the for sale board on here.  If you buy wisely then you won't lose much, if anything, if you decide to sell it on if (a) you decide the hobby isn't for you after all or (b) your appetite grows and you want to improve your kit.

Good luck and clear skies,

Ian

 

 

[happy-kat]

Hi

Something like this covers both observing and imaging but there are compromises as the aperture of the telescope is smaller as a chunk of the cost will be on the computerised tracking mount. Whilst the mount with a free firmware update can work on both altaz or equatorial (better for imaging) it's not designed for it but can do it within the capabilities it offers. The mount also has freedom find so if in altaz easy observing with manual use ie no power. (I've personally not used it)

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-skymax-102-az-gti.html

Depends where you want to place the emphasis of your new hobby observing or imaging, to combine both suggests compromise, but there's no rush the sky isn't going anywhere and in the UK astro darkness is dwindling.

Edited April 27, 2020 by happy-kat

[x6gas]

Skywatcher EQ5 or Celestron CG-5GT are good starter mounts that you can grow with - I've never owned a Skywatcher mount but they are actually manufactured / owned by the same company as Celestron (Synta).

Other than that, if you buy from the SGL for sale board check out that any seller has been on here for a bit.  Most people on here care about their community reputation and won't rip you off...  There are also some very good offers - especially on starter kit - as a fair few people are keen to encourage people that are new to the hobby.

Feel free to ask if you have questions!

[happy-kat]

If a mount is a tracking altazimuth then it tracks in tiny left right up down movement, nice to use for observing of the mount is a manual altazimuth and you want to find things manually. But the earth is rotating so for imaging exposure length is driven by the time it takes for rotation to show in an image, generally 30 seconds is about it.

[barkis]

If your ambition is to eventually Image the night sky gems, star clusters, open and globular. Planetary Nebula, Spiral and other galaxies. Stellar Nurseries such as the Orion Nebula, and oh so many other exotic occupants of the Universe, then set your mind the essential part of the kit you will require. One of the GoTo varieties of Equatorial. There are several choices, some more expensive than others. Of course the second hand market is a place to visit which would save you a bit of money. 

Gear your thinking towards the telescope you have ambition to own, as that will help determine the type of mount you should go for.  Buying a quality mount first, will allow you to image the sky with a DSLR camera, help hone your skills until such time as you can buy your desired telescope. This way of life can drain your wallet in double quick time, so take your time, and plot your way through the minefield Astro Photography  can be.

Good Luck on your journey.                                                             Ron.

 

 

[Dean270]

38 minutes ago, x6gas said:

Skywatcher EQ5 or Celestron CG-5GT are good starter mounts that you can grow with - I've never owned a Skywatcher mount but they are actually manufactured / owned by the same company as Celestron (Synta).

Other than that, if you buy from the SGL for sale board check out that any seller has been on here for a bit.  Most people on here care about their community reputation and won't rip you off...  There are also some very good offers - especially on starter kit - as a fair few people are keen to encourage people that are new to the hobby.

Feel free to ask if you have questions!

That's great, thank you.

 

[Louis D]

46 minutes ago, Dean270 said:

Thanks Ian.

 

Anything to watch out for on the second hand market? Really want to avoid buying a dud.

 

Avoid ebay and other non-astro classifieds.  Stick to dedicated astronomy classifieds associated with your home country.  The folks who post on them are generally on the up and up.  That, and you'll probably want to drive and meet face to face if buying a largish Dob.  At that point, you can check it out, ask the seller to show you around it, aim it at terrestrial targets, etc.

[jonathan]

For a first telescope setup starting from nothing I'd say to just keep it simple, there's plenty for you to learn and hone your skills on with just a manual setup (goto will eat your £400 budget without even buying a telescope, and they're often not as easy to use as they sound).

Out of the telescopes I've owned I'd say probably the most fun and useful has been the Skywatcher 150P, this XLT 150 offering from Celestron is virtually the same setup as I have, except I added the tracking motor kit (just RA, as DEC is only needed for minor adjustments if my tripod alignment isn't 100%).

Here's the Skywatcher: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ota.html

Here's a suitable starter mount for it: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/celestron-mounts/celestron-omni-cg-4-mount.html although it looks like this may no longer be available.

Consider a more future-proof mount for if you wish to upgrade to a larger scope: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq5-deluxe.html

Motor drive for the HEQ5: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-mount-accessories/enhanced-dual-axis-dc-motor-drives-for-eq-5.html (not within your £400 budget).

Also a thing to know is that the bigger and heavier the mount, the less vibration you'll get - this is important not only for visual astronomy but also photography, as the slightest breeze can upset a lighter mount and tripod, especially if you are near the weight limit (easy to do once you add some eyepieces and especially a DSLR).

An alternative, probably better suited to planetary and globular clusters: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/evostar/skywatcher-evostar-120-with-eq3-2-eq3-pro-eq5-eq5-pro-heq5-mounts.html (base model for £410)

Note the 'speed' of the scopes are quite different - the 150P is a faster scope than the Evostar 120, so on a very clear night you might benefit from higher quality high magnification eyepieces in the 150P... *might* being the operative word.  The 'slower' Evostar 120 could probably get away with cheaper eyepieces although I'd still recommend acquiring a couple of good quality wide field (like 82 degrees) eyepieces, maybe 14mm and perhaps 32mm for a good wide selection, expect these to cost almost as much as your £400 budget again.

A faster refractor: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-120-eq3-2.html

You'll need speed for astrophotography, so that means a scope with a low 'f' number, f5 is typical of a fast budget scope, but you'll also definitely want tracking and I honestly can't recommend the EQ3-2 for this, from the reviews I've read it just doesn't sound as though it's up to the job (especially the ones supplied with the square aluminium legs, those things are flimsy).  This is why I ended up spending a bit more on the Celestron Omni CG-4 with tracking motors (combined, these are out of your initial £400 budget).  You'll also need to buy a polar alignment scope (the EQ3-2 and CG-4 do not normally come with one, there is a slot already in place for one though) and with that learn how to polar align, not that easy for a beginner!  I usually don't bother for visual, I just plonk the mount down with the N leg pointing in the direction of the North Star, that's usually good enough and sometimes gives me perfect alignment.

If you want to connect the camera directly to the scope then you'll normally need a short extension tube (to acquire focus) and some sort of adaptor which will be specific to your camera (called a 'T' ring for DSLRs) or a cradle for a smart phone that sits over the eyepiece, that is a whole other topic though.

So, to summarise, think about your mount and tracking first (buy a good quality sturdy one, tracking motors not necessary until you want to do photography, RA is nice to have for visual but it will eat too much into your £400 budget), then think about a scope that is well within the weight limit of that mount.  My final recommendation to start you off with would probably be the HEQ5 with Skywatcher Explorer 150P reflecting telescope, you'll get some decent light gathering with that for visual and you'll have a very steady mount that you can probably use a 200 or 250 reflector on (or a long / wide aperture refractor) when interest and budget allows.

Footnote: Why am I not recommending Alt-Az mounts?  Not good for astrophotography, and it's useful for you to learn how the earth rotates (the EQ mounts effectively counteract this rotation from the point of view of the telescope) and moves through space.  Also they are easier to track with, both motorised and manual - if alignment is reasonable then you only need to turn one slow motion control to keep an object in view.

Why am I not recommending any motorised tracking or goto to start off with?  Too expensive for your budget.  True, there are beginner scopes that come with tracking and goto for your £400 budget but I think you'll soon find their limits and want to progress beyond their capabilities, and as they usually come as a package you'll find yourself replacing the mount and the scope.  If you're going to buy tracking I'd say it's worth spending the money on good quality parts.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by jonathan

[AstroFin]

Hi Dean!

Very good advice from the others, but I'd like to add my thoughts. 

Astrophotography is quite expensive and the 400 pound budget won't take you very far in the long run. To get good results early on, you should probably invest in a DSLR camera and a star tracker. This way the learning curve won't be too steep. You can get good deals on used DSLR cameras online. Taking a too deep dive in the beginning might not be a smart idea. Things get very expensive very quickly. Many amateurs use Canon cameras, because of the wide range of software available and the relatively "easy" astromodification process. Some good star trackers include Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer and iOptron Skyguider Pro. If you want to go full-on and get a high class mount that's sturdy enough to support a telescope, get the Sky-Watcher HEQ5 mount as @jonathan recommended! Also, you might find it interesting to check AstroBackyard on YouTube for some beginner tutorials!

As for the telescope, I've been to this hobby for the most of my life and often find myself enjoying the 200mm Dobsonian telescope of my local astronomy club. A telescope like this will show you an unimaginable amount of detail on the Moon, is a good instrument for observing the planets and has enough aperture to make observing deep sky targets enjoyable and worthwhile. You will also learn to navigate through the night sky in the process. Taking pictures of the Moon and videos of the planets is possible with a Dobsonian. Even if you decide to levitate towards the astrophotography route, a good Dobsonian is always a nice to have. They are easy to use, fairly cheap and have a sturdy mount. They are somewhat heavy though, so keep that in mind if you need to carry and transport the scope a lot. Buying gear second hand is a great way to save up some money for future accessories.   

No matter which route you end up going, remember that the best gear is the one that you use the most often. 

Clear skies from Finland,

Tomi